Keeping software on your OS..

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ud6

Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ud6 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:23 pm

I have what may be a bad habit.. I keep software on mint. What I mean is, I have 3 word processors, 3 web browsers, and other software I hardly use. Always annoys me when space is taken up by a Firefox update when I never use it. However, I am paranoid that one day I'll quickly need the internet, and Opera will crash or have some reason it can't play some video. Similarly, WPS is my regular office suite, but one day I'll need to import a format libre office only can open.. for example, just today I couldn't find male and female symbol characters, so I copies them from libre office into WPS.

What is your view? Best to just keep your regularly used software on the computer to reduce update time, but then is that a risk cos yoy rely just on one piece of software? (Sometimes I'm off line, so downloading may be out of the question)???

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by trytip » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:25 pm

if the world ends tomorrow and is overrun by zombies, software is the least of your problems. you can quickly fill a 1TB hard drive with redundant software. my personal choices will not match yours as i have a clear vision of what i need on my pc but this is a vision that's been evolved from the 90's when i started using software. if you start using the internet today your vision will be different

such is the world of the opensource software you will have to learn as you go instead of having them bundled into your pc by apples or micosofts

the one software i recommend is timeshift then you can experiment to your hearts content and if you don't like things you can system restore before messing around.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by AZgl1500 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:25 pm

Looking at my OS space needed, I cannot tell that adding a few apps here and there makes any difference at all.

where the space gets eaten up, is in my /home partition, because I am constantly saving something that might not ever see the light of day again.... so what? we now have TBytes of space to waste....

and if the big Nuke comes along, I won't care anyway.

I think you are being paranoid about something that is not worth the price of a donut

ud6

Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ud6 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:03 pm

Not so much space I'm worried about, as unnecessary updates (unnecessary because if I'm not using it, why update it?).

As far as timeshift goes.. it crashed my PC (wouldn't delete old timeshifts, filled disk). Backup software that crashes your computer isn't a good idea in my book, so I prefer to just do data backups and be prepared to reinstall the operating system.

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:23 pm

hi UD6...that is exactly what i do...i keep absolutely nothing but the operating system on my HD...everything else, pics, music, documents, and all the tweaks i use are safely stored on USBs...it something does ever go wrong, all i have to do is take the USB that has the up to date ISO and simply reinstall it, then whip out the USB that has all the commands for the tweaks i use and copy and paste them through the terminal to bring things to where i had them...if i need to see my pics, here my music and or videos, or read documents, i just have to plug its USB in to do so...this is why problems here are extremely rare...just keep it simple and things just work.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by JerryF » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:57 pm

ud6 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:23 pm
I have what may be a bad habit.. I keep software on mint. What I mean is, I have 3 word processors, 3 web browsers, and other software I hardly use. Always annoys me when space is taken up by a Firefox update when I never use it. However, I am paranoid that one day I'll quickly need the internet, and Opera will crash or have some reason it can't play some video. Similarly, WPS is my regular office suite, but one day I'll need to import a format libre office only can open.. for example, just today I couldn't find male and female symbol characters, so I copies them from libre office into WPS.

What is your view? Best to just keep your regularly used software on the computer to reduce update time, but then is that a risk cos yoy rely just on one piece of software? (Sometimes I'm off line, so downloading may be out of the question)???
To be blunt, you can continue to be annoyed or get help about your paranoia.

You say that sometimes you're offline, so no matter how many web browsers you have, they won't do you much good when your offline.

Do you have a job that requires instant need for instant access to software?

I only have one of each type of program (Libre, email, etc.) In your defense, it's a good idea to have a couple of office suites if you need them. As for symbol characters, does Linux's character map provide the ones you need?

EDIT: Just checked character map in Mint and those symbols are available. Change the View to "By Unicode Block" and select "Miscellaneous Symbols" on the left.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:39 pm

ud6 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:03 pm
Not so much space I'm worried about, as unnecessary updates (unnecessary because if I'm not using it, why update it?).

As far as timeshift goes.. it crashed my PC (wouldn't delete old timeshifts, filled disk). Backup software that crashes your computer isn't a good idea in my book, so I prefer to just do data backups and be prepared to reinstall the operating system.
1st: I am a deep believer in the Timeshift application, it works great.


I have been following all of the Timeshift threads for more than a year.
I have seen explanations that it ONLY keeps links to prior backups, and does not backup the files again. Thus it should not be growing in size.

Well, today, I decided to look deeper and see what is actually going on.
What I discovered threw all of the previous "informed explanations" in the trash basket.
Timeshift, does indeed, make a complete backup every time, the size of the backups keeps growing with each addition to the OS.....

I created a Pictorial Album and posted up pictures of what I found. I selected a few random folders, 1st a couple in the very beginning after the fresh install of 18.3 Cinnamon.

then a couple more after that, one from the middle and one towards the end of the current list of backups.

I was a bit irked at the fact, that yes, the Timeshift folder does indeed keep growing.....
as it happens, I do NOT have the Timeshift backup in the OS partition, to do that IMO is pure stupidity.
I keep it on an external partition by itself.

Okay, the Album..... goto the link, and please scroll all the way to the bottom, and then work your way back up to the top.... that will keep all the pix in sequence so that you can follow what I found.

you can click on an image and it goes Full Screen.... click on it again, and it returns to thumbnails,
and you won't loose your place in the folder.

https://imgur.com/gallery/6KIa761

Now, after all of that was done, the very last picture at the top of the album is the final list of backups.
I deleted 75% of all of the backups in the middle.... I wanted to keep the first 2 or 3 because that is where I started brand new with a fresh install. Then there are a few after that.

I keep 5 daily backups, they auto-delete the oldest.
Timeshift, for me, has never, ever failed to do what it is supposed to....
and with the backups on a separate partition, it has never, ever, crashed the OS.

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by all41 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:49 pm

ud6 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:23 pm
Best to just keep your regularly used software on the computer to reduce update time, but then is that a risk cos yoy rely just on one piece of software? (Sometimes I'm off line, so downloading may be out of the question)???
You could also use Synaptic to download packages of anticipated programs without actually installing them. Use the 'Download files only' option.
These files will reside in /var/cache/apt/archives. Then you will be able to install one of those pre-downloaded apps without online connection.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ud6 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:07 am

all41 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:49 pm
You could also use Synaptic to download packages of anticipated programs without actually installing them. Use the 'Download files only' option.
These files will reside in /var/cache/apt/archives. Then you will be able to install one of those pre-downloaded apps without online connection.
Wow! Fantastic. I didn't know I could do that. That is great! Thanks all 41 I shall certainly try that.

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by snowflake » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:14 am

ud6 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:23 pm
I have what may be a bad habit.. I keep software on mint. What I mean is, I have 3 word processors, 3 web browsers, and other software I hardly use.
Same here, I don’t think that's a bad practice, its good to have options, especially ones that are insta ready to use, not just if a program starts misbehaving but also when you get bored of said program because more often than not, just because multiple software serve the same purpose, they are far from being identical; with each having its pros & cons ex: opera vs Firefox, so its not really redundant, rather have many flavours, which is the fun part of using linux

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by lsemmens » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:04 am

Just as a thought. Why bother keeping copies of any programs "just in case"? Surely it would be just as easy to install them from the Software manager anyway? It's not as though dial up is "the norm" now, nor should there really be any major obstacles regarding download limits any more. Yes, I am aware of people in rural and remote areas that are restricted. (bin there dun that), but for the average user, I fail to see the point. OF course if you are running another operating system......
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ud6

Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ud6 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:43 am

lsemmens wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:04 am
... Why bother keeping copies of any programs "just in case"? Surely it would be just as easy to install them from the Software manager anyway? ..Yes, I am aware of people in rural and remote areas that are restricted. (bin there dun that), but for the average user, I fail to see the point. OF course if you are running another operating system......
Yup, hence my guilt :lol:

At home I have no internet (just at work) but say, for example, I want to suddenly want to import an xml file. But my regular spreadsheet is WPS. LibreOffice handles it better, but had I removed it, I would have to reinstall. Yup, it's quick, but maybe having 2 or 3 versions allows me to compare instantly (thus not breaking work flow) rather than downloading. Not sure if anyone else has had the situation where at first they were looking for an alternative bit of software and before they know it they're reconfiguring their linux system because it just seems like the fun thing to do.

At home, due to lack of internet (indeed sometimes I'm running off a powerbank that's been charged by solar), it is even more important.

I guess software in Linux is smaller, so we have the ability to keep several different pieces of software that do similar but not quite identical jobs.

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by Hoser Rob » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:01 am

trytip wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:25 pm
if the world ends tomorrow and is overrun by zombies, software is the least of your problems....
I'm not worried about the zombie apocalypse, the crows will eat them all.

I don't worry about taking up space with more than one program either.

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by Pepi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:05 am

I keep programs that I don't use deleted off my SSD. One thing about Linux ... you can install and delete programs without worrying about trashing your OS like Windoz

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by trytip » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:30 pm

ud6 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:03 pm
Not so much space I'm worried about, as unnecessary updates (unnecessary because if I'm not using it, why update it?).

As far as timeshift goes.. it crashed my PC (wouldn't delete old timeshifts, filled disk). Backup software that crashes your computer isn't a good idea in my book, so I prefer to just do data backups and be prepared to reinstall the operating system.
i'm truly sad when i see someone not able to figure out how to system restore their linux with timeshift. first off i don't do time scheduling or use timeshift to delete.
users these days rely too much on something and what everything done for them automatically. i too ran into some issues with timeshift but given that i totally butcher my system by ripping it apart deleting it formatting the drive and then restoring it with timeshift, i can vouch that timeshift does work. but it does require you some interaction
i just tried installing anbox this morning made a total mess of the system since anbox apparently doesn't recognize my cpu but it did install kernel modules and rebuilt the kernel with these modules enabled and even though my system said anbox vesion was installed when trying to run anbox it said it wasn't installed.
i didn't want any more headaches so i restored my system with my one timeshift snapshot i made two days ago
YES i keep one timeshift snapshot
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ud6 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:54 pm

trytip wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:30 pm
i'm truly sad when i see someone not able to figure out how to system restore their linux with timeshift.
Glad timeshift works for you, but the inability to delete timeshift snapshots is a known bug. It's not an inability to use it, it's that Timeshift is dangerous to use.
https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift/issues/141

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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by trytip » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:28 pm

@ud6
never had the chance to experience these bugs in timeshift since i don't use the default options. i did have a few mishaps when formatting drives and restoring mint19 with timeshift which had the wrong UUID in /etc/fstab but that's an extreme case since your UUID doesn't change unless you format
as for the dangers of timeshift, they say the same thing about synaptic package manager or sudo or bleachbit. i figure if i only have one snapshot in timeshift it would give me more incentive to keep my system running as compared to letting it do all the work for me and then be irritated if things break when it won't perform.

you are correct though, a piece of software should work automatically and eliminate user interaction , i don't want to spend hours learning and relearning computer stuff, i just want to turn it on and get one with my life. when that day arrives i'm sure i'll be centuries dead :D

the name of this thread is Keeping software on your OS.. this means you , you the user are the one making these decisions not the program or os. well with windows and android and apple you the user are pretty much left out in the cold rain with no socks and barefoot.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by lsemmens » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Timeshift... now there's a thought....must try it one day. Seriously, If I bork a system, I am not averse to blowing it all away and starting again, so I do not worry about using such backup strategies. Of course my data is backed up off line.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by ajgringo619 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:25 pm

ud6 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:54 pm
trytip wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:30 pm
i'm truly sad when i see someone not able to figure out how to system restore their linux with timeshift.
Glad timeshift works for you, but the inability to delete timeshift snapshots is a known bug. It's not an inability to use it, it's that Timeshift is dangerous to use.
https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift/issues/141
That link refers to BTRFS snapshots. I was a big proponent of BTRFS w/Timeshift; the snapshots were so quick that I barely noticed when they were taken. Then I started experiencing complete system freezes during snapshot maintenance - not Timeshift's fault, this was totally related to BTRFS. As a test, I removed Timeshift and started using snapper...and the exact same thing happened, always when old snapshots were being removed. I just finished switching back to EXT4 and Timeshift w/rsync.
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Re: Keeping software on your OS..

Post by trytip » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:22 pm

lsemmens wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:54 pm
Timeshift... now there's a thought....must try it one day. Seriously, If I bork a system, I am not averse to blowing it all away and starting again, so I do not worry about using such backup strategies. Of course my data is backed up off line.
i used to have this outlook on linux until i met timeshift. i have tried many times before to do some system restore, but all the backup programs required me to know what i wanted to include or to exclude. as soon as i was met with a blank canvas for a backup i just exited and took your perspective. been using linux since 2010 and every time i was met with a kernel panic i couldn't fix i would have to re-install.
than you timeshift for ending me those days and headaches.
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