Please NO mono in Mint

[linuxviolin]

Shouldn't that be the motto of a distro?
Most n00bs (including me) strike Fedora off for these reasons.
So much that even Ubuntu was deemed not suitable by me.
We chose Mint, because it simply WORKS..

Pragmatic? If you say it. In fact, here it is not even be specially pro or versus, it's more that I think when something is so controversial, the subject of so many debates... it should not be included by default, the choice should be left to the user *choosing* to install it or not and not to impose it by default. That's all.

But I've already talked enough about Mono in this forum and elsewhere, already explained so many things... this subject makes me just sick now.

Btw, what is the problem with Fedora? It is really easy to add what you want. Just one repo to add and hop, everything is there. Even noobs can make that without many problems... Even in Ubuntu this is not very difficult. I hope people use Mint for another reasons that just those...

P.S.= axel668, the "problem" with Mono is not the same. And for the record, ALL distros I use or used run WITHOUT Mono and I have never had big/real problems... Some sites can perhaps be a little problematic, well, if they are really unusable I can go elsewhere, I use another site. There are sufficient resources, fortunately...

[deleted]

Maybe I should read the entire thread, but NO mono in Mint is like saying No C++ apps in Mint. At the end of the day do I really care what language the app is written in? Not really. I care if the app does what I need it to do (and that it's not a pig). When I install a new distro, one of the first things I do is install Banshee. I don't want to get in a media player war. I'm just offering anecdotal evidence to support my opinion that it really doesn't matter that parts of Banshee is in mono. It does what I want it to do. Do I expect Mint to automatically ship with it? No. I can install it myself. It's not hard. There are quite a few instances (like Peppermint) where I start with a base installation and end up using it in a way the distro maintainer didn't envision. In the case of Peppermint, I use it for a file server/vm host. A far cry from cloud computing;)
-H

[linuxviolin]

Maybe I should read the entire thread, but NO mono in Mint is like saying No C++ apps in Mint. At the end of the day do I really care what language the app is written in? Not really. I care if the app does what I need it to do (and that it's not a pig). When I install a new distro, one of the first things I do is install Banshee. I don't want to get in a media player war. I'm just offering anecdotal evidence to support my opinion that it really doesn't matter that parts of Banshee is in mono. It does what I want it to do. Do I expect Mint to automatically ship with it? No. I can install it myself. It's not hard. There are quite a few instances (like Peppermint) where I start with a base installation and end up using it in a way the distro maintainer didn't envision. In the case of Peppermint, I use it for a file server/vm host. A far cry from cloud computing;)
-H

I understand that, but with this attitude one can make you to use, to sell you etc anything. It works, it does what I want, then I do not see/look no further. I know that unfortunately this is a typical behavior and in a lot of areas, but for me it's almost irresponsible, sorry if the word is strong, and even dangerous. I'm sorry people be just stupid and guinea pigs. Let me never to accept it and to fight, so to speak, versus.

[deleted]

Maybe I am just a lowbrow redneck from NC But sometimes these things are like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If you'd read my post, you'd see that the main thing is that I can tailor any distro to meet my needs. What my needs are are just that, my needs. I don't need a distro to add/remove packages according to my needs. A liveCD/DVD is just a starting point. Not the ending point.
-H

[linuxviolin]

If you'd read my post

I did

how many angels can dance on the head of a pin

Er, if I can ask, please no religious things here...

I don't need a distro to add/remove packages according to my needs. A liveCD/DVD is just a starting point. Not the ending point.

For YOU, and I'm very happy for you, not for the majority.

Btw, my last post was not to somebody in particular, here or elsewhere, I hope everybody will have understand that and nobody has misunderstood it.

[deleted]

For YOU, and I'm very happy for you, not for the majority.

So does the majority run off the LiveCD/DVD and not install it? If so, I'm surprised. OW, the Package Manager (Synaptic) and/or the Software Manager are pretty darn easy to use to add/remove packages.
-Hinto

[linuxviolin]

the Package Manager (Synaptic) and/or the Software Manager are pretty darn easy to use to add/remove packages.

Of course but the problem here is Mono and its contamination, its "invasion"... Gnome, Ubuntu etc From what point will people start to ask themselves (good) questions and no longer just "accepting" and "just using" what is given them without saying a word? When it will be too late, or perhaps even probably never...? The word is quite sad

[deleted]

Of course but the problem here is Mono and its contamination, its "invasion"... Gnome, Ubuntu etc From what point will people start to ask themselves (good) questions and no longer just "accepting" and "just using" what is given them without saying a word? When it will be too late, or perhaps even probably never...? The word is quite sad

Can't the same be said to "No QT apps in Gnome" or "No GTK apps in KDE"? Since I run Firefox and Thunderbird 99.9% of the time I run Gnome.

Additionally, why don't we say add K3B to all Mint distros. K3B is clearly more superior to Brasero, due to the DAO feature in K3B. Most liveCD/DVD distros want you to burn the iso DAO so you'll get a good burn. Brasero doesn't have that option. So after burning a couple of drink coasters with Brasero, I installed K3B. Do I then say please NO more Brasero? Of course not. I just quietly install K3b and use it and post back to the forum if someone has problems burning a liveCD/DVD. At least on this forum, the distro maintainer does read the posts, so if enough folks say Brasero is making drink coasters, then he can take it under advisement for the next release.

For distros, I do accept what is offered. It's too easy to distro hop. My rule of thumb is that if I can't do a fresh install and be productive in 20 minutes (at work), then the distro is lacking a good out of the box experience. And if I find myself creating a bunch of packages from source (or a repo doesn't offer it) then I chose an immature distro, and make a trip to Distrowatch (again)
-Hinto

[linuxviolin]

People can just be okay with you but what is your point? Mono is not at all the same thing than a burning app or other... This is a different issue. And again you talk for *yourself* or people like you or me. But for instance, look at a person accustomed to Windows and so who has with Windows many/several apps included, so who, like many people, can use it without need to add something... Unfortunately she won't arise many questions and will use what you give it without asking any questions, even if these are crap or bad.

But to talk about this, you are right, K3b is a good burning app, one of the best if not the best. Brasero was good then crap then good again... Xfburn, the burning app of the Xfce desktop, is/was also quite good. There are many problems with burning apps, e.g. often they read very badly the speeds of the drive and give often values quite farfetched/outrageous and absolutely not those at which you (can) actually burn, resulting sometimes/often some problems... Xfburn generally is/was good for that, K3b also and maybe the best app for the majority of people and and most needs, Brasero, well, it's changing...

If you want asking for K3b in every edition of Mint, why not? You can try...

[deleted]

People can just be okay with you but what is your point? Mono is not at all the same thing than a burning app or other... This is a different issue. And again you talk for *yourself* or people like you or me.

It's the same. It's just technology. Just because I accept what's out of the box doesn't mean I don't understand it. And apparently you are the one that's complaining about mono, not the industry as a whole. Tons of distros contain it.

If you want asking for K3b in every edition of Mint, why not? You can try...

Hmmm... maybe because the ease of installation outweighs the effort getting it on a cd.
-Hinto

[linuxviolin]

It's the same. It's just technology.

No. Mono or an app is not the same issue.

Tons of distros contain it.

And what? As I already said, if tomorrow "tons of people" empties into a river with a big stone tied around the neck, everyone will have to follow? This is not an argument.

And again, I don't ask the "destruction", sic, of Mono but just that it not be included by default. Again, "when something is so controversial, the subject of so many debates... it should not be included by default, the choice should be left to the user *choosing* to install it or not and not to impose it by default." Mono is a particular thing and for me almost like a cancer... (I know, it's a little "harsh" maybe? Hmm... ) Plus, we have no need for it. (I do not speak here about Mint but in a more general)

I guess we'll be never agree and like I said earlier this debate is sterile and endless, and anyway it's Clem who will have the last word. So let's say we are agree to be disagree, ok?

[monkeyboy]

One of the joys of the net is that everybody with a opinion gets a chance to have their say. On the downside its a magnet for every contrarian on the planet.

[linuxviolin]

On the downside

Why "the downside"? At the contrary, it's a chance and it's happy. If only this could be the same thing everywhere... and fortunately there were some contrarians, if not Humanity would has lost a lot of things and perhaps would not have changed/evolved much...

[tdockery97]

and fortunately there were some contrarians, if not Humanity would has lost a lot of things and perhaps would not have changed/evolved much...

Agreed. If not for contrarians, Columbus, Magellan, et al would have stayed at home and I wouldn't be able to enjoy Salem, Oregon

[alpha1]

and fortunately there were some contrarians, if not Humanity would has lost a lot of things and perhaps would not have changed/evolved much...

Agreed. If not for contrarians, Columbus, Magellan, et al would have stayed at home and I wouldn't be able to enjoy Salem, Oregon

Perhaps you would've liked living in Europe more than Americas ... who knows ;P

[tdockery97]

I guess I'll never know.