Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

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That Random Guy
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Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:56 pm

Hello,

I've already put up a post in the suggestions forum and have even decided to create an idea on community.linuxmint but before I do, I was wondering what others would think of introducing a launcher into Cinnamon.

For those not aware, I'm referring to a "launcher" like Unity/Gnome DASH Launcher (as an example only):

Image

The way I see it, there's obviously those who won't use it and those who will.

I'd like to think that this would add a nice touch to Cinnamon and might even add to the usability factor I think they excel at.

The pros and cons in my head:

Pros:
*Intuitive interface to find things like apps & files
*Easier access to commands and functions
*Potential to add to new UI experience

Cons:
*Takes up more resources (bloat to some people)
*Takes up more storage
*Requires maintenance if committed homegrown
*May become incompatible with changes to Cinnamon (depending)

I feel it is now appropriate to make it known that while there are third-party launchers (e.g. Albert, Synapse), they might not always work out-of-the-box or at all. This is what happened to me on my 17.3 box.

Arguments can be made that this provides a needless redundancy in that the panel/app menu already allows searching for apps, but I'd like to remind you then that other desktops and distros that have their own panel/app menu also utilize a kind of launcher. Whether it's krunner in KDE or lxqt-launcher in LXQt, you will find these supposed "redundancies". I do not make this point to say that Linux Mint/Cinnamon should follow other desktops and distros but rather that perhaps there's a good reason to consider why this type of feature or functionality has been adapted and integrated into these environments.

My take on it is as you've already seen and I would only add that it's a smart enough utility to query things aside from apps and files.

I do not foresee the team to work on this anytime soon and I doubt they'd even consider an extension to be worked on for this. From what I've been understanding on the blog, I get the feeling Cinnamon is headed for changes. This leads me to believe that it's even more likely that working on something like a launcher will not make headway anytime soon.

Therefore, I'd like to see what others think of this seeing as how I just found a post where a user was asking for a launcher in Cinnamon.

P.S. - I'm not a developer. I just really like the extra ease-of-use factor launchers add to the desktop experience.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by catweazel » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:36 am

That Random Guy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:56 pm
Subject: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?
I can't comment on what others might think but for me, if I wanted something like that I would install the Gnome desktop or even an earlier iteration of Windwoes 10; Noting that the later versions of Windwoes 10 have moved away from this controversial design. I think it's important to understand the Cinnamon philosophy as well, which is towards a more traditional desktop, and that, I feel, would probably be broken if such a feature were implemented.

Of course, that's my opinion, and not meant as a criticism.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by tenfoot » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:27 am

As I use LM19.1 Mate this probably doesn't apply to me. However, here are my comments, for what they are worth.

I have tried all the current docks (launchers) to give me a visible representation of programs and, although I feel they have their purpose, they are just not for me. - invariably too much "clutter". So I opted to take the "invisible" route and currently control all applications by keyboard shortcuts. Together with those already available on installation and those I have created myself, these total 29. And no, I do not have any difficulty remembering them :)
tenfoot
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by cliffcoggin » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:13 am

The appeal of Cinnamon for me is the lack of clutter. I see nothing on screen except what I consciously put there, yet everything I want access to is readily accessible via menus.
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by lsemmens » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:23 am

It might be ok for those who use a tablet, but for the majority of desktop users, this type of interface was/is an unmitigated disaster. Windwoes 8, anyone? M$ was smart enough to kill that interface in double quick time.
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by Moem » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:49 am

I don't see any advantages. I see how it's different, but not how it's easier or more intuitive. Maybe I'm missing something?
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:09 pm

Moem wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:49 am
I don't see any advantages. I see how it's different, but not how it's easier or more intuitive. Maybe I'm missing something?
I consider it mainly intuitive in the sense that when someone sees only a search box, like in Albert's case, they should automatically know how to use it.

I suppose finding such a thing wouldn't be likely in an environment that isn't Gnome, like on Fedora, where they have no app menu or desktop icons.

It'd probably take the same number of steps for (some) terminal commands, but some utilities offer other things that can be done straight from the search box.

I agree on the point made about it being different, and I don't intend for this to replace what's already there, but introducing a seemingly redundant feature like this—if only optional—seems like a neat idea to me.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:22 pm

lsemmens wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:23 am
It might be ok for those who use a tablet, but for the majority of desktop users, this type of interface was/is an unmitigated disaster. Windwoes 8, anyone? M$ was smart enough to kill that interface in double quick time.
I'm actually one of the biggest criticizers of Windows 8's "one size fits all" kind of implementation and I'm also glad they got rid of that. :lol:

What I would like to acknowledge, however, is that Windows and even MacOS include this type of feature where one is able to search for things aside from apps.

Windows 10's search also indexes files amongst other things which can be useful for a particular use-case. I do not find this more appealing on a tablet.

It is my understanding that Cinnamon's current app/panel menu doesn't allow for searching anything side from apps by default; although the ability to index things like files and even do web searches is possible, as I've been made aware.

I think other OSs and even other distros include this for good reason in that it allows for easier access given certain tasks.

Ideally, I think having a launcher would be really nice, but I suppose I could "compromise" for revamping the abilities of the already-existing search utility found in the app/panel menu. The infrastructure's already there, it would just require a bit more on-boarding.

I suppose, however, that even that would be too idealistic as I've already mentioned. :?

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:34 pm

cliffcoggin wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:13 am
The appeal of Cinnamon for me is the lack of clutter. I see nothing on screen except what I consciously put there, yet everything I want access to is readily accessible via menus.
I would like to think that's true for apps more than anything. I can't see that as true for cases like files.

One can easily configure shortcuts for launching apps, but AFAIK, the same can't be done for distinct files.

Lastly, this kind of feature shouldn't add clutter to the desktop if done correctly. I would hate it if they replaced traditional/common-sense desktop components like in Fedora. Honestly, I don't even find Fedora usable now. Who in their right mind removes desktop icons? :roll:

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:46 pm

catweazel wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:36 am
That Random Guy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:56 pm
Subject: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?
I can't comment on what others might think but for me, if I wanted something like that I would install the Gnome desktop or even an earlier iteration of Windwoes 10; Noting that the later versions of Windwoes 10 have moved away from this controversial design. I think it's important to understand the Cinnamon philosophy as well, which is towards a more traditional desktop, and that, I feel, would probably be broken if such a feature were implemented.

Of course, that's my opinion, and not meant as a criticism.
I think I misrepresented what feature I would like to be added. I actually don't like Windows 8 and the last thing I would want is for Cinnamon to follow suit in that madness.

To me, a launcher is only useful because it allows users to search for things aside from applications. Windows 10's search indexes files as well as context-based "menus" to present the user with what they need without requiring them to point and click, point and click, and you know the rest. :)

My view is that this feature has been added to other DEs because it compliments what already exists for a handful of users—otherwise LXQt wouldn't have bothered. That's my opinion, of course.

I agree that Cinnamon should be kept simple and should definitely retain the traditional desktop components. I think the nightmarish scenario would be what Fedora is doing right now by forcing users to only use DASH out of the box. They even removed desktop icons. So ridiculous!

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:47 pm

tenfoot wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:27 am
As I use LM19.1 Mate this probably doesn't apply to me. However, here are my comments, for what they are worth.

I have tried all the current docks (launchers) to give me a visible representation of programs and, although I feel they have their purpose, they are just not for me. - invariably too much "clutter". So I opted to take the "invisible" route and currently control all applications by keyboard shortcuts. Together with those already available on installation and those I have created myself, these total 29. And no, I do not have any difficulty remembering them :)
Mate, you are a super-duper power-user. Much respect. :lol:

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by majpooper » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:56 pm

As a Cinnamon user I would prefer not to add the "bloat."
Everyone I suppose tweaks their desktop to suite - I go in the direction of no clutter
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by cliffcoggin » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:30 pm

That Random Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:34 pm
Who in their right mind removes desktop icons?
I do.
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by murray » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:21 pm

It's not something that I personally would use (seems like it would add clutter to my desktop), but I'm all for diversity and choice and so if it was an option that people could turn on and off then I don't see the harm in it (although there are other features I'd prefer to see implemented first).
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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by catweazel » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:33 pm

That Random Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:34 pm
cliffcoggin wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:13 am
Who in their right mind removes desktop icons? :roll:
I do. You won't find a single icon on my desktop.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:57 pm

cliffcoggin wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:30 pm
I do.
Whoops
Image

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by smurphos » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:06 pm

That Random Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:57 pm
cliffcoggin wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:30 pm
I do.
Whoops
It's not unusual I think. I don't have desktop icons either.
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:08 pm

murray wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:21 pm
It's not something that I personally would use (seems like it would add clutter to my desktop), but I'm all for diversity and choice and so if it was an option that people could turn on and off then I don't see the harm in it (although there are other features I'd prefer to see implemented first).
Image

I think getting them to even consider an extension would be great if it's even an option---since it's my understanding that extensions are already optional and not pre-loaded/installed.

I agree, however, that I'd rather have them knock out other things before doing something like this due to the impression I'm being given from the latest blog entries.

It'd be nice, still, if it was eventually put on a to-do list.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by smurphos » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:17 pm

That Random Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:08 pm
It'd be nice, still, if it was eventually put on a to-do list.
https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap/bl ... md#roadmap
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Would a launcher like DASH be welcomed?

Post by That Random Guy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:21 pm

smurphos wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:06 pm
It's not unusual I think. I don't have desktop icons either.
Image

Dope. :)

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