TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

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catweazel
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TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by catweazel »

One of the authors, or the main author, of articles on TechNewsWorld consistently makes unsustainable claims against LM 19.1.

https://www.technewsworld.com/story/Fer ... 85977.html

In that article, Jack Germain is supposed to be talking about a distro based on Linux Mint, but at the end he states, "Still, Feren OS is a nice alternative to Linux Mint, which has gotten sluggish and slow since the version 19.1 release."

In yet another article about a different distro, he takes yet another swipe at LM 19.1 with, "The next step is to install it on my primary desktop computer in place of the troublesome Linux Mint."

https://www.technewsworld.com/story/Con ... 85963.html

These aren't the only articles where he makes snide remarks at the end of his articles, and it's now a pattern of his.

Cinnamon on LM 19.1 is faster than it was on LM 18.x, and it runs trouble-free on my rig. If he's bored with Mint, fine, but if he's too thick to work out that he needs more RAM or that an occasional reboot wouldn't do any harm, why blame Mint?
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Moem »

Why? Because this way gets him more eyeballs, or if not, he may still think so. :roll:
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by catweazel »

Moem wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:06 am
Why? Because this way gets him more eyeballs, or if not, he may still think so. :roll:
Well, he lost these two eyeballs :)
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Portreve »

If I may borrow a bit from Lord of the Rings, it has been a lifeage since I last followed any technology "experts" or read regular tech articles.

I used to subscribe to Macworld, MacUser, and MacWeek back when I was a hardcore Mac user. It was also at a time when the tech journalism industry still had some credibility and self-respect.
catweazel wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:42 am
These aren't the only articles where he makes snide remarks at the end of his articles, and it's now a pattern of his.
Don't feed the trolls, and don't give them free press.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by rene »

Portreve wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:58 pm
If I may borrow a bit from Lord of the Rings, it has been a lifeage since I last followed any technology "experts" or read regular tech articles.
If you're also interested in hardware rather than software I'd in fact recommend the YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/LinusTechTips and its sub-channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Techquickie. Well presented and not ever as far I've up to now have identified wrong or, in a bad way, opinionated.

He doesn't much care for Linux but as a general tech, hardware channel I'm finding it/them enjoyable...

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by lsemmens »

Windwoes users might say the same about us. Only difference being - WE'RE RIGHT!!!!!!
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Portreve »

In the first place, most computer owners do not read tech rags, whether online or ink-n-paper. Come to that, most owners of computers and/or smartphones have very shallow interests where technology is concerned.



I don't think Clem or anyone else in a leadership role with LinuxMint should acknowledge or respond to criticism from the peanut gallery, as it were. Moreover, and I do recognize I'm a broken record at this point, members of this community other not to dignify such garbage with discussion threads such as this one.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by jackmg »

Just to get the record straight, my comments are not "unsubstantiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19." If LM19.1 is working fine for you, that's great. I'm glad to hear it.

I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years. I particularly am fond of the Cinnamon desktop. Since installing the LM 19.1 upgrade, the very same set of computers -- all with a minimum of 8GB RAM -- have been sluggish. Booting time is twice what it used to be for previous releases. It takes some two minutes or longer to open LibreOffice and many other applications, for example.

Nothing has changed with the configurations or hardware except the OS version. Even simple things like moving among virtual workspaces can have a five-to-ten-second pause. To be frank, for whatever reason, LM 19.1 doesn't work like LM used to. The exact same Linux applications running on other similarly configured gear does not have the delays, the sluggishness, or the long wait of seemingly unresponsiveness like I experience with LM19.1.

I am not picking on LM19.1. Hey, I still use it. I have tested other distros running the Cinnamon desktop and have had none of those problems. I am not picking on LM. I like it a lot. But for whatever reason, on my collection of computers, the performance is the same. If you really read my weekly Linux reviews for the last 10 or more years, you would know that I sometimes compare similarities and differences that I find among related Linux distros.

I often get email from readers commenting on their similar experiences with sluggishness in LM 19.1. They ask for recommendations on how to fix it or what would be a better replacement for it. That is the reason for my references to LM 19.1's poor performance.

I am open to your suggestions about why LM 19.1 is so problematic for SOME users on the same hardware that ran earlier LM version perfectly fine. That would be a lot more beneficial than bad-mouthing the messenger.

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Pjotr »

@jackmg: kudo's for taking the time and effort to respond. :)

Some thoughts as to your problems with Mint 19.1 (which I haven't encountered on any of my own machines, by the way):

1. I only recommend in-place upgrading within a particular Mint series (e.g. the 19 series). Reason: only within a given series the underlying Ubuntu LTS code base remains identical. Which ensures painless in-place upgrades, for example from 19 to 19.1.

Not so when upgrading from 18.x to 19.x, for instance. In that case, which involves a major upgrade of the Ubuntu LTS code base, a clean installation is advisable. Best result, best performance, quickest procedure even.

2. These are a bunch of safe speed tweaks for Mint 19.1 that I've published on my website:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... -mint.html

3. Want a more in-depth analysis of your speed issues? Then please supply the inxi -Fxz output of each machine.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by catweazel »

jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
Just to get the record straight, my comments are not "unsubstantiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19."
They most certainly are. You are a journalist and are supposed to know how language works, and you have a responsibility to use it correctly.

"Still, Feren OS is a nice alternative to Linux Mint, which has gotten sluggish and slow since the version 19.1 release."

That Linux Mint, the entire distribution, is slow and sluggish, is vitally implicit in your statement there. Yet you post here and it's patently clear that your installation is at fault. Nothing gives you the right to extrapolate your individual experience over to the entire user base and call it substantiated.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Mage of Maple »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:26 pm
@jackmg: kudo's for taking the time and effort to respond. :)
Indeed, thanks for responding. Since you have had good experiences with Mint in the past and are openly sharing your experiences, the user community can probably track down the cause and hopefully improve Mint for everyone.

In-place upgrades of major versions could be the issue as Pjtor suggests, but I think there is probably more to it than that. Although it is generally recommended, I do it anyway and have had good luck. My main Mint Cinnamon 19.1 machine has been upgraded in place since 17.3 (I think? 17.something in any event, so 2 major upgrades.) Launching a LibreOffice app can take as much as 10 seconds, which is much slower than I would expect, but nothing like the two minutes you describe. And switching between virtual desktops is pretty much instantaneous for me. (An i5-4440 at 3.10 GHz with 16 GB ram)

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by michael louwe »

jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years. I particularly am fond of the Cinnamon desktop. Since installing the LM 19.1 upgrade, the very same set of computers -- all with a minimum of 8GB RAM -- have been sluggish. Booting time is twice what it used to be for previous releases. It takes some two minutes or longer to open LibreOffice and many other applications, for example.
.
Likely, you need to get newer computers(but not too new) if you want to flawlessly run LM 19.1 or the coming LM 20 or LM 21. That's why the 2015-released Win 10 cannot run on 2001-released Win XP-era computers that came with Intel Pentium 3 processors.
....... It's wrong for a user to expect his/her computer to be able to keep on upgrading from LM 12(= 2004-released) to LM 13 to LM 14 to LM 15 to LM 16 to LM 17 to LM 18 to LM 19(= 2018-released) to LM 20 and so on. IOW, a reliable computer is only expected to last about 15 years wrt OS upgrading.
....... Similarly, an old lady should not expect to love and marry a young virile hunk, or vice versa.

Alternatively, you should run light-weight Linux distros that are more suited for your old computers, eg Lubuntu, Linux Lite, AntiX, etc. ... https://itsfoss.com/lightweight-linux-beginners/ You can also give the lighter LM 19 xfce a try.

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by catweazel »

michael louwe wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:05 am
jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years.
.
Likely, you need to get newer computers
More likely he upgraded without doing a clean install. There is no evidence to suggest his current machines are in need of replacement.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by gm10 »

jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years. I particularly am fond of the Cinnamon desktop. Since installing the LM 19.1 upgrade, the very same set of computers -- all with a minimum of 8GB RAM -- have been sluggish. Booting time is twice what it used to be for previous releases. It takes some two minutes or longer to open LibreOffice and many other applications, for example.
While I've never seen that blog in question (I don't follow Linux blogs) nor could I care less if you were badmouthing the distribution (there's certainly bad things about it that others do better), let me be the one to simply call BS on this statement. No experienced Linux user would accept such values as a given. The only way "two minutes or longer" could even remotely be true was if you were maxing out a component on your system, be it CPU, memory or storage, and you cannot tell me you wouldn't be able to identify that.

And even if you couldn't (in which case maybe don't write about what you don't understand), it should be self-evident that nobody would be using a distribution with a characteristic like that, so even a non-technical person would understand that something must have gone wrong on their end.

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by rene »

How interesting. Read jackmg's reply earlier this morning and just now came back to say basically the exact same as immediately above.

I'll instead inject a comment on the "double booting time" thing then. There's been an issue of the installer in some circumstances creating an /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume file listing an unknown swap UUID and causing a 30 second boot-time timeout. Might not be the issue here of course, and I'd initially have expected someone who'd take it upon himself to write tech articles to be able to hit Esc to get the boot splash out the way to in fact see this to be the problem, but if "taking 2 minutes or longer to open LibreOffice" is considered general "sluggishness" rather than being immediately obvious as some identifiable local issue, then, yes, well, it would seem we're not looking at a competent user.

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by michael louwe »

catweazel wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:31 am
michael louwe wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:05 am
jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years.
.
Likely, you need to get newer computers
More likely he upgraded without doing a clean install. There is no evidence to suggest his current machines are in need of replacement.
.
Posted by: jackmgerm 2013-01-09 15:20:57 In reply to: Jack M. Germain

Thanks for the suggestion about including the life span of the distros in my reviews. I will mention that from now on. As to the features that I listed as new yet appear to be in your Linux Mint 11 package, I'm curious about which ones you mean. I regularly run Mint 12 and Mint 13 in both Cinnamon and KDE. ...
https://www.technewsworld.com/perl/boar ... mview=flat
.
If you prefer a traditional desktop more reminiscent of Gnome 2, take Linux Mint 14 MATE for a spin.

I installed each of these new versions on my collection of gear running earlier versions of Linux Mint. ...
https://www.technewsworld.com/story/76989.html

Seems, "jackmg" has been using the same set of old computers to run and test the 2004-released LM 12(or maybe even earlier releases), LM 13, LM 14 and every LM upgrade right up until the recently-released LM 19.1.

There is no evidence to suggest he upgraded from LM 18 to LM 19 or from LM 19 to LM 19.1 without doing a clean install.

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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Pjotr »

michael louwe wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:56 am
Seems, "jackmg" has been using the same set of old computers to run and test the 2004-released LM 12(or maybe even earlier releases), LM 13, LM 14 and every LM upgrade right up until the recently-released LM 19.1.
There's no evidence that jackmg never upgraded his hardware in that period of time. So your conclusion is far-fetched, to say the least. :shock:

Jack obviously made a mistake in his article by too readily assuming that his problems with 19.1 were affecting everybody. But give the guy a break: it was just a causal remark, an aside, not what his article was about. Most importantly: he obviously had no bad intentions.

Most of us make casual remarks from time to time, that don't bear scientific scrutiny (I know I do, especially after a glass of wine or two). So why not just try to help Jack to solve his technical problems, instead of trying to hew him down? :wink:
Last edited by Pjotr on Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by catweazel »

Pjotr wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:08 am
But give the guy a break: it was just a causal remark, an aside, not what his article was about.
Not so. I gave only two examples out of many, and the fact that he mentions problems with LM so often in articles about other things is what makes them snide. I'd go and fetch more but I've stopped reading him. I wouldn't want to increase his hit count.
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by Pjotr »

catweazel wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 am
Pjotr wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:08 am
But give the guy a break: it was just a causal remark, an aside, not what his article was about.
Not so. I gave only two examples out of many, and the fact that he mentions problems with LM so often in articles about other things is what makes them snide. I'd go and fetch more but I've stopped reading him. I wouldn't want to increase his hit count.
Although I'm all for dealing out a verbal clobbering from time to time, to bloody fools who richly deserve a powerful and well-aimed kick in their behinds, I don't think it's merited in this case. Jack's response in this thread made that clear. :wink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yU0JuE1jTk
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Re: TechNewsWorld: Unsubstatiated, unfair, snide remarks about LM 19

Post by michael louwe »

Pjotr wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:08 am
There's no evidence that jackmg never upgraded his hardware in that period of time. So your conclusion is far-fetched, to say the least. :shock:
jackmg wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:02 pm
I have used LM on my main desktop and laptop computers from its early years. I particularly am fond of the Cinnamon desktop. Since installing the LM 19.1 upgrade, the very same set of computers -- all with a minimum of 8GB RAM -- have been sluggish. Booting time is twice what it used to be for previous releases. It takes some two minutes or longer to open LibreOffice and many other applications, for example.
There is evidence of his own statement that he has been using the same set of old computers to run and test both the early LM releases and the recent LM 19.1 release.
.
On my 2009-released HP Pavilion dv2-1123ax netbook, I could easily boot the Live LM 17.3 USB but could not boot the Live LM 19 USB without doing a workaround which I had to spend some time to Google-Search for.
....... IIRC, I had a 2006-released HP Intel Core2Duo mini-desktop which could not boot the Live LM 18 DVD but could dual-boot LM 17.3 alongside Win XP.
So, old hardware will often encounter problems running new or just-released OS software.

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