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Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:45 pm
by Mint2019
why doesn't the linux mint team just ditch Ubuntu and roll Thier own like Solus and Fedora did? like i mean become it's own distro not based off anything, wouldn't it make sense?

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:59 pm
by lsemmens
Are you good at writing code? I'd suggest that Clem, et. al. already have enough on their plate without having to write another Kernel.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm
by trytip
think about this. you're a contractor building houses and you're good at it. so someone says to you, hey why don't you eliminate home depot and harvest your own lumber, create and mix your own paint, smelt the nails and screws used for holding it all together. while you're at it why not get rid of your family and genetically design your own :mrgreen:

personally i'd like to see an arch based mint distribution.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:24 pm
by Hexeratops
I think that might be a bit much to ask for. Especially with regards to package compatibility, it's easier to be based on another desktop environment so you can take advantage of the software that's already packaged and available. Debian boasts having over 59,000 packages and I believe this is an area Solus struggles a little with. I am watching LMDE with interest though.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:42 pm
by BigEasy
Mint2019 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:45 pm
why doesn't the linux mint team just ditch Ubuntu and roll Thier own like Solus and Fedora did?
What? Independ? You made my day!
https://getfedora.org/sponsors/

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:49 pm
by all41
trytip wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm
think about this. you're a contractor building houses and you're good at it. so someone says to you, hey why don't you eliminate home depot and harvest your own lumber, create and mix your own paint, smelt the nails and screws used for holding it all together. while you're at it why not get rid of your family and genetically design your own :mrgreen:

personally i'd like to see an arch based mint distribution.
Ha Ha--I love this answer, made me smile, but true.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:07 am
by waldo
trytip wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm
<snip>
personally i'd like to see an arch based mint distribution.
Manjaro already does exactly that very well. I have been trying the Manjaro Cinnamon DE spin on my laptop, and it is excellent, noticeably faster than Mint. I still use Mint on my main desktop, as I trust the stability more.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:05 am
by Portreve
Mint2019 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:45 pm
why doesn't the linux mint team just ditch Ubuntu and roll Thier own like Solus and Fedora did?

trytip wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm
think about this. you're a contractor building houses and you're good at it. so someone says to you, hey why don't you eliminate home depot and harvest your own lumber, create and mix your own paint, smelt the nails and screws used for holding it all together.
We sort of did this back in the 60s with the development of manned spaceflight. Unlike engineers of today, they did it all with slide rules, long-hand math, precision hand-drawn blueprints, and tens of thousands of man hours poured into just development and testing alone of largely never done before parts and materials fabrication.

Know you nothing of forking code, sir? :lol:

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 am
by all41
We sort of did this back in the 60s with the development of manned spaceflight. Unlike engineers of today, they did it all with slide rules, long-hand math, precision hand-drawn blueprints, and tens of thousands of man hours poured into just development and testing alone of largely never done before parts and materials fabrication
Yep--I remember--btdt Does log log duplex decitrig ring a bell?

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:05 am
by michael louwe
Mint2019 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:45 pm
why doesn't the linux mint team just ditch Ubuntu and roll Thier own like Solus and Fedora did? like i mean become it's own distro not based off anything, wouldn't it make sense?
.
First, we need to look a bit into the history of open-source GNU/Linux started by Richard Stallman in the 1980s to get away from closed-source or proprietary but noob-friendly desktop Windows and MacOSX. GNU/Linux was a project started by techgeeks for techgeeks who wanted to avoid Windows and MacOSX = GNU/Linux was not meant for noobs. So, naturally, the first established Linux distro in 1993, ie Debian, could only be run by tech-geeks, eg lots of CLI needed. It needed > 100 developers to start the Debian Project. Today, Debian has about 1,000 active developers.

From the 1990s to 2000s, noobs and ordinary/average users avoided desktop Linux like the plague.

Since FOSS or GPL allows free/libre software modification or forking, Ubuntu, a fork based on Debian, came along in 2004 = the Ubuntu Project required less developers by piggy-backing on Debian. Then in 2006, Linux Mint came along to piggy-back on Ubuntu = the LM Project required even less developers. Both Ubuntu and LM also could only be run by techgeeks.
....... Only at around 2012, ie starting with Ubuntu 12.04(= LM 16), was Ubuntu developed to become as noob-friendly as Windows and MacOS, ie many GUI tools and apps/programs, and CLI may not be needed at all. LM benefited a lot from this change by Ubuntu, ie becoming even more popular than Ubuntu in 2016.

So, it is quite impossible for the less resourceful LM Team to roll their own "mainline/upstream" Solus, Fedora or Debian.

If the LM Team wants to ditch Ubuntu, she can spend more resources to make a new distro that is as noob-friendly as Ubuntu but based on LMDE (= LM based on Debian), or piggy-back on MX-Linux or Sparkylinux which are also noob-friendly LTS distros based on Debian like Ubuntu.

.
Apart from the mainline Debian Project which has the LTS or Stable Releases, there are also Archlinux(= started in 2002) and Fedora(= started by Red Hat in 2003) which are Rolling Releases, ie not LTS Releases. It's unlikely that the LM Team would want to piggy-back on Rolling Releases like the Archlinux/Manjaro and Fedora/Korora Projects.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:56 am
by Mint2019
if that's the case the why does the Mint team support LM19 until 2023 instead of 2028 as per Ubuntu 18.04LTS? would it not make sense for them to match Ubuntu's support cycle?

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:10 pm
by Pjotr
Mint2019 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:56 am
if that's the case the why does the Mint team support LM19 until 2023 instead of 2028 as per Ubuntu 18.04LTS? would it not make sense for them to match Ubuntu's support cycle?
Don't think so. :shock:

Imagine the effort needed to maintain the Mint-only repo's for that long, let alone the Universe and Multiverse repo's.... And that for probably just a tiny fraction of its users, because Mint doesn't aim at corporate users. It would be insanely inefficient.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:29 pm
by michael louwe
Mint2019 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:56 am
if that's the case the why does the Mint team support LM19 until 2023 instead of 2028 as per Ubuntu 18.04LTS? would it not make sense for them to match Ubuntu's support cycle?
Only paid support for Ubuntu 18.04 will allow it to be used past it's free EOL of April 2023, ie from May 2023 to 2028. This is under the Ubuntu Advantage program, usually subscribed by enterprises running Ubuntu Server 18.04 and/or Ubuntu (Desktop) 18.04. There is no LM Server edition.
....... Canonical Ltd-Ubuntu also competes against Red Hat Inc-RHEL in the Linux enterprise market = 10 years of support. Red Hat charges subscriptions for the whole 10 years of support. Canonical only charges for the last 5 years of support. But RHEL is better than Ubuntu Server. Such support include full tech support via remote connection or on-premises visits by employees of Red Hat or Canonical.

Similarly, M$ will provide expensive paid support for Win 7 Ent past it's free EOL of Jan 2020, ie from Feb 2020 to Jan 2023 = 10 years of free support and 3 years of paid support for the enterprises, ie support for feature and/or security updates, and superficial online support which can include remote connection. OTOH, buying Win 7 Ent Volume Licenses post-2009 was very expensive. M$ charges extra for full tech support for those 13 years, which can include on-premises visits by employees of M$.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm
by jglen490
:roll:

Just be happy for what you really have ...

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:45 am
by Pjotr
jglen490 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm
:roll:

Just be happy for what you really have ...
Wise words. This is a dumb whining thread; I'm already sorry that I've posted in it.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:22 am
by roncraig
jglen490 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm
:roll:

Just be happy for what you really have ...
Love my LM Cinnamon :) And yes, I am very appreciative for what I have.

I do think Clem nailed it when they released LMDE though. Now all that's left is to get away from Ubuntu and move to LMDE full-time.

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:12 pm
by Mint2019
I am very happy with Linux mint, I simply posted the thread because I was curious as to why the support is only until 2023, my question was answered very well

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:34 pm
by Minux1
To quote an old truism : ´EASIER SAID THAN DONE´

Re: Going Independent

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:22 pm
by smgordon1259
Well you can start right here http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/