"Laptop too powerful for linux"

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majpooper
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"Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by majpooper » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am

I had installed Mint about a year ago for a friend on an old (about 5 to 7 years old) HP laptop - it worked fine and they were happy with it.
They decided they wanted a new laptop and went to a Big Box store and bought one - never asked for advice just went and bought a new laptop. Good for them . . . . I guess - not my approach but, whatever, as they say.

They called me to ask me about a problem with the updates, not working or taking too long or some such thing. This is the second time this has happened to me with a new Windows user. I had to tell them I had no clue to even what they were talking about. But here is the real kicker - when I told them I would be glad to install Mint on the new laptop they related to me they had asked about getting the laptop with Linux installed and were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux."

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by Pjotr » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:01 pm

majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux."
Given the fact that 100 % of all supercomputers in the world are running on Linux, that's mighty rich. :lol:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/all-linux ... s-top-500/

Sales personnel in computer stores.... Where do they recruit those people? How do those stores train their personnel?
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by phd21 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:11 pm

Hi majpooper,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

+1 for "Pjotr" 's comments, that is a ludicrous and ignorant statement from anyone to say that a computer is "too powerful for Linux." Just a thought, if someone had a USB stick with them with the Live test-drive version of Linux Mint on it in a situation like this, they could have booted any computer they are interested in to the USB stick with Linux Mint and quickly determined if Linux Mint would run on it.

Are you or your friend referring to MS Windows updates not working or taking a long time? Compared to Linux Mint, and other versions of Linux, I always thought MS Windows updates took a long time. Updates taking a long time or not working could be because the servers providing the updates are busy at this time, their ISP (Internet Service Provider) is slow or having issues, etc... changing the ISP Connection's default DNS servers might help, and depending upon the ISP, using IPv4 versus IPv6 might also help. Also, sometimes the modem router needs to be turned off, wait a minute, and turned back on (power cycling) because the ISP updated something; then of course, anything connected to the router, on the local network, should be restarted like computers, tablets, etc... before updates, etc...

Hope this helps ...
Last edited by phd21 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by athi » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:18 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:01 pm
majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux."
Given the fact that 100 % of all supercomputers in the world are running on Linux, that's mighty rich. :lol:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/all-linux ... s-top-500/

Sales personnel in computer stores.... Where do they recruit those people? How do those stores train their personnel?
The key word is "Sales personnel", their job is to sell the product and services for their employer. Computer knowledge is optional for the job and may actually impede the sales function. Talked to a few of these guys over the years and it is amazing some of the BS that they spouts.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by BenTrabetere » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:48 pm

majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux."
Once upon a distant past life ago I was at a computer swap meet and saw an IBM PC 365 for sale for $50. It sported dual Pentium Pros and 128MB RAM. The vendor was dumping it at the ridiculous price because "it wasn't powerful enough for Window 95." I picked it up with the intent of loading OS/2 SMP on it, but never got around to buying a copy, and much later I tried and failed to get Red Hat 5 to work.

I lost it and my beloved Northgate OmniKey ULTRA when my basement flooded. Stupid washing machine and sump pump.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by 151tom » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:28 pm

athi wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:18 pm
The key word is "Sales personnel", their job is to sell the product and services for their employer. Computer knowledge is optional for the job and may actually impede the sales function. Talked to a few of these guys over the years and it is amazing some of the BS that they spouts.
You expect the sales people to sling the BS out that's their job.

Some sales staff are good at spotting easy sales / chumps and suckers.

What's amazing are the people who believe all of the BS that the sales person slings to them.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by michael louwe » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:19 pm

majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
They called me to ask me about a problem with the updates, not working or taking too long or some such thing. This is the second time this has happened to me with a new Windows user. I had to tell them I had no clue to even what they were talking about. But here is the real kicker - when I told them I would be glad to install Mint on the new laptop they related to me they had asked about getting the laptop with Linux installed and were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux."
.
In a sense, the sales person is correct in saying that the new laptop was "too powerful for linux", ie Linux is light on computer resources while Win 10 is heavy on computer resources = you only need at least 2GB of RAM and 32GB of hard-disk space to run Linux comfortably while you need at least 4GB of RAM and 64GB of hard-disk space to run Win 10 comfortably.
....... So, a new low-end laptop with 4GB of RAM and 500GB HDD/128GB SSD is "too powerful for Linux" or is just powerful enough for Windows.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by Pjotr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:05 am

michael louwe wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:19 pm
.
In a sense, the sales person is correct in saying that the new laptop was "too powerful for linux", ie Linux is light on computer resources while Win 10 is heavy on computer resources = you only need at least 2GB of RAM and 32GB of hard-disk space to run Linux comfortably while you need at least 4GB of RAM and 64GB of hard-disk space to run Win 10 comfortably.
....... So, a new low-end laptop with 4GB of RAM and 500GB HDD/128GB SSD is "too powerful for Linux" or is just powerful enough for Windows.
Please don't increase the nonsense by adding contorted logical abominations.

That salesman isn't correct in any sense at all. It's simply bloody rubbish what he spouted. Period.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by gm10 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:21 am

151tom wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:28 pm
Some sales staff are good at spotting easy sales / chumps and suckers.

What's amazing are the people who believe all of the BS that the sales person slings to them.
Exactly. And you see it in this thread, people actually think the sales person should tell them the facts. Certainly not, they should tell you whatever they have to to make the sale. They're being paid by the shop, not the customer.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by nakednorman » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:25 am

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:21 am

...... they should tell you whatever they have to to make the sale. They're being paid by the shop, not the customer.
To survive long term and even expand, the shop owner needs to establish some trust, and he can't do that by establishing an environment where his customer facing staff are required to lie in order to make or increase sales. Once you lose customer trust, they don't come back and they advise their friends accordingly. Having to find new customers all the time is very expensive and not conducive to long term survival of the business.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by gm10 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:53 am

nakednorman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:25 am
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:21 am

...... they should tell you whatever they have to to make the sale. They're being paid by the shop, not the customer.
To survive long term and even expand, the shop owner needs to establish some trust, and he can't do that by establishing an environment where his customer facing staff are required to lie in order to make or increase sales. Once you lose customer trust, they don't come back and they advise their friends accordingly. Having to find new customers all the time is very expensive and not conducive to long term survival of the business.
Very true, so you have to be careful what you actually say, but I don't think anybody would lose trust in the store for recommending Windows over Linux. And even if they did, literally every store I've ever been to recommends Windows over Linux. Because they cannot sell Linux and they do not want to support Linux.

When I bought my current laptop it actually came preinstalled with Linux but the store claimed there was no OS on it so I should buy Windows, even though I had explicitly mentioned I was going to put Linux on it. Now I don't care because I never relied on the sales guy's statements for anything, but how likely are customers that do actually rely on them to ever find out the truth, anyway?

Plus there's the question of availability, not everybody has a large choice of physical stores at hand where they can talk to people.
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michael louwe
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by michael louwe » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:25 am

nakednorman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:25 am
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:21 am

...... they should tell you whatever they have to to make the sale. They're being paid by the shop, not the customer.
To survive long term and even expand, the shop owner needs to establish some trust, and he can't do that by establishing an environment where his customer facing staff are required to lie in order to make or increase sales. Once you lose customer trust, they don't come back and they advise their friends accordingly. Having to find new customers all the time is very expensive and not conducive to long term survival of the business.
.
Yes, very true.

A few days ago, I went into a car battery shop to make some enquiries to buy a MF(= Maintenance Free) battery. The saleman recommended a brand for my car. I asked why that brand's battery CCA(= Cold Cranking Amp) is a bit low. He told me that the low CCA does not matter(= a lie). Soon after I left the shop. Later I went to another shop to buy my MF car battery of another brand that has a higher CCA.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by deepakdeshp » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm

The fact is that desktop means Windoze. Linux usage is actually sliding down on the desktop.So the salesman wouldn't know about Linux. Can we blame him if he pushes Window? After all 20 years ago the statement was nobody gets fired for buying an IBM mainframe. Familiarity is the thing IMO.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by KBD47 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:43 pm

I think he was actually saying: A Laptop Too Good for Linux.
In the minds of some people a 'decent laptop' is not one you would run Linux on. Maybe they have only seen old beat up laptops running Linux. But Linux on a new laptop, or high end hardware is a thing of beauty.
Just ignorance in the 1st degree on his part.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by BigEasy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:47 pm

majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
But here is the real kicker - when I told them I would be glad to install Mint on the new laptop they related to me they had asked about getting the laptop with Linux installed and were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux"
What's wrong? It's true.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by Pjotr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:55 pm

deepakdeshp wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Linux usage is actually sliding down on the desktop.
A bit on Netmarketshare, but only that:
https://netmarketshare.com/operating-sy ... 1000%22%7D

From 2.21 % to 1.72 % in a year. A slight slide. But I hereby predict an increase because of the upcoming demise of Windows 7. :mrgreen:
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by deepakdeshp » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:07 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:55 pm
deepakdeshp wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Linux usage is actually sliding down on the desktop.
A bit on Netmarketshare, but only that:
https://netmarketshare.com/operating-sy ... 1000%22%7D

From 2.21 % to 1.72 % in a year. A slight slide. But I hereby predict an increase because of the upcoming demise of Windows 7. :mrgreen:
Though I want Linux to Win the numbers are going southwards. It's not a slight side but 23%slide in a year which is big 😢.
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by majpooper » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:15 pm

BigEasy wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:47 pm
majpooper wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:51 am
But here is the real kicker - when I told them I would be glad to install Mint on the new laptop they related to me they had asked about getting the laptop with Linux installed and were told by the sales person that the laptop that they needed was way "too powerful for linux"
What's wrong? It's true.
What's wrong? . . . . . well what's wrong is it is not true - the implication is that a crappy $700 laptop with a cheap CPU and 4-8G of RAM and a tiny HDD is too powerful and therefore cannot run linux is bs.
How about the PC below - too powerful for Linux even though it come with . . . . . yep you guessed it Linux Mint.
It's wrong because the Big Box either did not have any laptops available with linux or would rather sell something with Windows - I really don't know if there are incentives to sell Windows laptops and PCs vs ones with linux installed - I suppose probably though. I also don't know how the sales person is paid - maybe they get a bigger cut if they sell a $700 Windows laptop rather than the $350 linux laptop. I wasn't there but I suspect the sales person could tell the older family friend really was lost when it came to computers so they were easy pickings to sell a more expense laptop - that's what is wrong.

Code: Select all

CompuLab AirTop3 built to order with Linux Mint
$2,889.10

CPU
Core i9-9900K [C9900]
RAM
4x 16 GB [D64]
SSD
1x SSD 1 TB [HS1X1T]
NVMe
1x EVO 970 256 GB [NVME1X256]
Operating system
Linux Mint [XLM]
PCIe card
Intel X550-T2 dual 10GbE adapter [GE10GX2]
WiFi and Bluetooth
WiFi adapter 802.11ac + BT 4.2 [W]
FACE Module
FM-OPLN [FMOPLN]
Temperature range
Industrial temperature range -40°C to 70°C [TI]
Last edited by majpooper on Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by Pjotr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:17 pm

deepakdeshp wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:07 pm
Though I want Linux to Win the numbers are going southwards. It's not a slight side but 23%slide in a year which is big 😢.
I wouldn't worry if I were you. I remember the years, not so long ago, when desktop Linux was struggling to reach 1 % on Netmarketshare. :mrgreen:
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Re: "Laptop too powerful for linux"

Post by majpooper » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:24 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:55 pm
deepakdeshp wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Linux usage is actually sliding down on the desktop.
A bit on Netmarketshare, but only that:
From 2.21 % to 1.72 % in a year. A slight slide. But I hereby predict an increase because of the upcoming demise of Windows 7. :mrgreen:
That is a good thing - Keeps the target surface small less than 2% even better - I want Windows to be a fat juicy target so they ignore me.
Oh, does that make me a mean insensitive person? :twisted:

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