Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

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bob466
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by bob466 »

catweazel wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:34 am

Yet there are you are, teaching newcomers stupid things with FUD. Your "advice" is way out of date. You need to catch up.
Really...you claim..."Modern SSDs are capable of lasting for petabytes written, not merely the terabytes written specified by manufacturers".and..."In short, SSDs have a lifespan far exceeding the regular hard disk". Then how do you explain two members of this Forums SSDs failing after a few weeks...you can't can you...because what manufacturers claim and what happens in real life are two different things. Image

That's like saying...new cars don't have problems :lol: SSDs may be capable of lasting a long time but it all boils down to maintenance and good luck...believe what you like. :D
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Pjotr »

For me, it's a matter of "best practice", not of science. If I can severely reduce the number of writes to my SSD with just a few simple measures that have no negative impact at all, and don't hinder me in any way, I think it's just plain horse sense to do so.

This article, which is only three years old, is just an example of what you may have to deal with if you do nothing:
https://www.servethehome.com/firefox-is ... to-fix-it/

Key quote:
"Bottom line is that if you have a lower capacity consumer level SSDs in some of your machines, you may want to check and tweak your Firefox config. Those drives can be rated for about 20GB of writes per day and Firefox alone might be using more than half of that."

The fix for that is also mentioned in my SSD how-to, by the way:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... tml#ID12.2

It boils down to this: better safe than sorry.
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All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.

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catweazel
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by catweazel »

bob466 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:45 am
...believe what you like. :D
Et tu, Brute.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by cliffcoggin »

Pjotr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:23 am

The fix for that is also mentioned in my SSD how-to, by the way:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... tml#ID12.2

It boils down to this: better safe than sorry.
That sounds reasonable, Pjotr. Would changes to the session store interval survive Firefox and Mint updates, or would it have to be reset each time?
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Pjotr »

cliffcoggin wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:25 am
Pjotr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:23 am

The fix for that is also mentioned in my SSD how-to, by the way:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... tml#ID12.2

It boils down to this: better safe than sorry.
That sounds reasonable, Pjotr. Would changes to the session store interval survive Firefox and Mint updates, or would it have to be reset each time?
It should survive updates, because the modification is being done in the copy of the Firefox settings in your /home. :)
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.

athi
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by athi »

Pjotr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:23 am
For me, it's a matter of "best practice", not of science. If I can severely reduce the number of writes to my SSD with just a few simple measures that have no negative impact at all, and don't hinder me in any way, I think it's just plain horse sense to do so.
Fully agree with this, with proper steps to reduce write/erase operations, SSD can last much longer than spinners. Have a Kingston SKC100S3120G 120GB SSD that has almost 12 years of constant use that still works like new. Spends a couple of years running Win7 and then Mint, it is the boot drive in my main rig now. Except for when it was running Win7, it was used mostly for boot drive with volatile data stored on the network.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Rocky Bennett »

bob466 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:45 am
catweazel wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:34 am

Yet there are you are, teaching newcomers stupid things with FUD. Your "advice" is way out of date. You need to catch up.
Really...you claim..."Modern SSDs are capable of lasting for petabytes written, not merely the terabytes written specified by manufacturers".and..."In short, SSDs have a lifespan far exceeding the regular hard disk". Then how do you explain two members of this Forums SSDs failing after a few weeks...you can't can you...because what manufacturers claim and what happens in real life are two different things. Image

That's like saying...new cars don't have problems :lol: SSDs may be capable of lasting a long time but it all boils down to maintenance and good luck...believe what you like. :D

This is one of the silliest things that I have ever read on the internet. Good luck with your logic!!!!

A fact of life in the modern world, things fail. Sometimes things don't work at all.

If it was made in a factory then the simple fact is... there is no way of telling if something will last one trillion hours or one hour.

rene
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by rene »

Rocky Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:51 am
This is one of the silliest things that I have ever read on the internet.
I want your internet!

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Portreve »

And now, this is all I've got to say about this topic.
Please be polite and remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

Presently running Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.3.

Know when what you're doing is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and STOP.

Maybe a step closer to getting a new job.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by HaveaMint »

"Tune for maximum Smoke and then read the Instructions".

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Shadow in Fire
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Shadow in Fire »

I don't believe in having more than one OS per drive, even if it's just another GNU/Linux distro. It's a risk not many people are aware of.

You have to dedicate a secondary machine or just go cold turkey. Back up first, though.

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bob466
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by bob466 »

Rocky Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:51 am
bob466 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:45 am
catweazel wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:34 am

Yet there are you are, teaching newcomers stupid things with FUD. Your "advice" is way out of date. You need to catch up.
Really...you claim..."Modern SSDs are capable of lasting for petabytes written, not merely the terabytes written specified by manufacturers".and..."In short, SSDs have a lifespan far exceeding the regular hard disk". Then how do you explain two members of this Forums SSDs failing after a few weeks...you can't can you...because what manufacturers claim and what happens in real life are two different things. Image

That's like saying...new cars don't have problems :lol: SSDs may be capable of lasting a long time but it all boils down to maintenance and good luck...believe what you like. :D

This is one of the silliest things that I have ever read on the internet. Good luck with your logic!!!!

A fact of life in the modern world, things fail. Sometimes things don't work at all.

If it was made in a factory then the simple fact is... there is no way of telling if something will last one trillion hours or one hour.
Silly is it...you said exactly the same thing :roll: Who's silly now. Image :roll: :lol:

Pjotr...thank you for your knowledgeable input as always. :D Mods...I think it's time to close this Thread as it not going anywhere. :( Image
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by RollyShed »

bob466 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:12 pm
Mods...I think it's time to close this Thread as it not going anywhere. :( Image
Yes going downhill and about to reach terminal velocity E=MC2 and it will turn to ashes. Hang on "Ashes" and Aussies, there's something there isn't there? Sorry USA, it is a Brit and Aussie thing..... :oops:

cliffcoggin
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by cliffcoggin »

Pjotr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:37 am
cliffcoggin wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:25 am
Pjotr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:23 am

The fix for that is also mentioned in my SSD how-to, by the way:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... tml#ID12.2
That sounds reasonable, Pjotr. Would changes to the session store interval survive Firefox and Mint updates, or would it have to be reset each time?
It should survive updates, because the modification is being done in the copy of the Firefox settings in your /home. :)
Thank you Pjotr. I have now done that and a few of the other changes you mentioned.
Cliff Coggin
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LordOfTheNet
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by LordOfTheNet »

Have to completely disagree with the above statement of additional distros only in VM. There simply are too many limitations in vm. I personally wouldn't recommend anything more than dual boot, but I would recommend installing that second os alongside your current os if you are going to be using it on a regular basis. VM is for testing purposes only in my opinion.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Neil Darlow »

Hi,

I am very conservative about the use of SSDs. I restrict mine to serving /usr only. This provides speed-ups for binaries, libraries and application resources. Outside of updates, this can be viewed as largely a read-only scenario with minimal writes. The gains from using a SSD are there without the impact of excessive writes. I put everything else on a conventional HDD to avoid things like cache writes etc. in /home from diminishing SSD lifetime.

ATB,
Neil
Linux Mint 19.2, Intel Core i5 8400 2.8GHz, ASUS Prime Z370-P, Corsair Vengeance 3400 16GB, ASUS Cerberus GTX1050 Ti, Samsung 970 Evo 500GB M.2, Western Digital Blue 4TB, Wircard RealTek 8821ae PCIe Wireless+Bluetooth 4.0, Pioneer BDR-209EBK BDRW.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Minux1 »

Another pseudo crisis on the horizon.
Accurate information is usually the best cure for panic mode.
500 GB Crucial SSD drives on my netbooks.
1TB Crucial SSD on my 11.5" laptop.
From what I read on SSDs they made the SSDs cheaper by making manufacturing/materials compromises that reduced the max number of overwrites before degradation.
That had to be done.
When SSDs first appeared on the scene I´d have to mortgage my house to buy a 1 TB SSD.
That being said the information also revealed that my great great grandkids would likely be pushing up daisies before the smallest of my drives degraded to the point of unusability from overwrites.
The next ice age is probably a more imminent threat than the failure of my SSDs due to too many overwrites.

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bob466
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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by bob466 »

RollyShed wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:40 am
bob466 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:12 pm
Mods...I think it's time to close this Thread as it not going anywhere. :( Image
Yes going downhill and about to reach terminal velocity E=MC2 and it will turn to ashes. Hang on "Ashes" and Aussies, there's something there isn't there? Sorry USA, it is a Brit and Aussie thing..... :oops:
Ashes and Aussies = Winners :D :D :D

Here's something for you...only in NZ...https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=aeM8Y_1568958458 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never Image

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by Arch_Enemy »

Minux1 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:51 pm
I´m thinking of dual booting LM MATE v19.2 and the latest version of Kali Large.
I am starting with a pristine new outta box Crucial 1 TB SSD so I´m particularly interested in this discussion.
I have several Linux eligible laptops so I´m debating whether or not to have a Kali dedicated laptop or dual boot.
Dual/triple/quadruple booting Windows O/Ss didn´t seem to be fraught with the same snags and pitfalls that Linux presents.
Just install the latest Windows O/S last and everything fell into place.
No messing with GRUBs, command line code or any of that stuff.
A reasonably adept 10 year old could do it. :mrgreen:
Ubuntu has for a while now installed a swapfile on the drive. Now, I don't know if this is default behaviour or not, but I have SO much RAM in my system I never enable a swap at installation. So, whether Ubuntu says "Hmmm...no swap partition, so I'll do it myself" or not, I dunno.

If you have enough RAM to avoid a swap partition, do so, and before rebooting after installation go to the new filesystem, /etc/fstab, and turn OFF the swapfile.

You'll save a lot of wear and tear on your SSD. I believe at least for right now, RAM is less expensive, so on a laptop I'd put in as much as the system can handle and forge the swaps altogether.
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One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Are You Killing Your SSD with Dual Boot ?

Post by athi »

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:19 pm
Ubuntu has for a while now installed a swapfile on the drive. Now, I don't know if this is default behaviour or not, but I have SO much RAM in my system I never enable a swap at installation. So, whether Ubuntu says "Hmmm...no swap partition, so I'll do it myself" or not, I dunno.

If you have enough RAM to avoid a swap partition, do so, and before rebooting after installation go to the new filesystem, /etc/fstab, and turn OFF the swapfile.

You'll save a lot of wear and tear on your SSD. I believe at least for right now, RAM is less expensive, so on a laptop I'd put in as much as the system can handle and forge the swaps altogether.
If you use hibernation, you will need SWAP file. Also, a small SWAP file is always a good idea even with lots of ram since it is cheap insurance against system lock-up if you somehow run out of ram. As far as saving wear and tear on a SSD, use of SWAP file in place of SWAP partition allows the SSD to fully utilize TRIM and wear levelling algorithm.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

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