17 worked better

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bad medicine
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17 worked better

Post by bad medicine »

I just don't remember having half the troubles and inconveniences with 17 that I have had with 19. I sure wish I was still using 17.

The update manager was better, and easier to understand
the panel looks and acts differently, (even between earlier 19's) and its infinitely frustrating trying to figure out why
constant usb troubles
my accidental deletion when typing problems have now followed 19 to a new computer, which is the old computer I had 17 on which never had the problem
I have to hunt for my storage drive when I save or open files
and more


I probably would not have ditched Windows for Mint 4 years ago if I had had these and the other pesky annoying problems I am having now. Mint 17 worked so smoothly for me, and 19 has been much more bumpy. /rant
Last edited by karlchen on Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: thread moved to "Chat about Linux Mint", because no help has been requested with any specific problem
Thinkpad T430 Mint 19.1

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Pierre
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Pierre »

YES - that does happen
:o
same with any Operating System, really.

- it's if those changes cause you some instability - - that will also cause you, to move on.

IMHO - - LM13 was the most stable .. that was a long time ago & it's also still on one of my PCs - even today.
- - it's used for burning CDs & which I'm also wanting that Laptop, to be so stable.
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

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Moem
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Moem »

bad medicine wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:29 am
The update manager was better, and easier to understand
the panel looks and acts differently, (even between earlier 19's) and its infinitely frustrating trying to figure out why
The update manager seemed easier to understand, it was in fact easier to misunderstand. Personally, I thought it was better not to update certain things. Now I update everything, it's in fact pretty easy!

As for the panel, you're not alone in that, try this: viewtopic.php?p=1748354#p1748354
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

bjmh46
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bjmh46 »

Been running mint (xfce) since 13, and hands down my favorite release was 17. Never was able to reliably suspend with 18 and beyond for one thing. 17 just worked 100%, all the time. So........I have to agree with the op, although you will never catch me going back to windows. I do love Mint!

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karlchen
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by karlchen »

Hi, bad medicine and bjmh46.

You have not mentioned any details about the hardware on which Linux Mint 17.x worked perfectly for you.
Could this not be the most likely reason for your dissatisfaction with more recent Linux Mint releases, specifically with Linux Mint 19.x?
Outdated hardware, which is no longer fully supported by current Linux (Mint) releases?

Based on my own experience - and my machines, which run Mint releases, are pretty old, around 10 years - I can truthfully tell that I have got no reason to complain about either Mint 18.x, nor Mint 19.x. Note: no kernel 5.x.x on any of my old machines, yet.
Technical details can be retrieved here: PB laptop, Acer netbook, Zotac mini-desktop, Medion desktop

I am pretty sure that in the near future, new Linux (Mint) releases may no longer run as happily on those aging machines as the current releases still do.

Best regards,
Karl
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Linux Mint 19.2 64-bit Cinnamon, Total Commander 9.22a 64-bit
Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)

bad medicine
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bad medicine »

karlchen wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 am
Hi, bad medicine and bjmh46.

You have not mentioned any details about the hardware on which Linux Mint 17.x worked perfectly for you.
Could this not be the most likely reason for your dissatisfaction with more recent Linux Mint releases, specifically with Linux Mint 19.x?
I used an i5 Thinkpad T410 with 17 for 3 years. I first installed 19 on an i5 T430 and ran that for 6 months, then upgraded my T410 to SSD and went back to it with 19. I had/have problems on both puters with 19.

I don't plan to go back to Windows but I'm experiencing almost Windows-level frustration for the first time in 4 years with Mint. Its reminding me of why I never stuck with Ubuntu after all the times I tried it. I just got sick of constant tinkering with things that should. just. work.
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Hugh Neutron
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Hugh Neutron »

If people fancy one piece of software from the 17.X series. It would be better to find a way they could port it to 19.X or future releases rather then stay using 17.
After all it's base buntu 14.04 LTS is discontinued and I don't know if one could keep desirable software up to date using PPA's alone.

Linux's lack of binary compatibility creates these odd scenarios. What Linux users call "backports/forward ports" Windows users call choosing their preferred version of a program.
GNU/SystemD/Linux(the kernel)/X.org/Debian 9 (testing) forked/Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS (Bionic Beaver)/Linux Mint 19.2 (Tina) Cinnamon edition

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bad medicine »

Hugh Neutron wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:15 am
If people fancy one piece of software from the 17.X series. It would be better to find a way they could port it to 19.X or future releases rather then stay using 17.
After all it's base buntu 14.04 LTS is discontinued and I don't know if one could keep desirable software up to date using PPA's alone.

Linux's lack of binary compatibility creates these odd scenarios. What Linux users call "backports/forward ports" Windows users call choosing their preferred version of a program.
Its not a piece of software that worked better, it was the operating system.
Thinkpad T430 Mint 19.1

altair4
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by altair4 »

Everything is relative. Plan9 ( from Bell Labs ) works today pretty much as it did back in 2002.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by 151tom »


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Schultz
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Schultz »

Version 17 was the current Mint when I made the switch over from Windows. 17 did seem better to me than 18, but I think that was more because of the changes in the de Mate than anything that changed in Mint itself.

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Hugh Neutron
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Hugh Neutron »

What made Mint 17/Ubuntu 14.04 LTS's package base better?

By all means keep using it and ignore updates while the rest of us stay up to date.
GNU/SystemD/Linux(the kernel)/X.org/Debian 9 (testing) forked/Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS (Bionic Beaver)/Linux Mint 19.2 (Tina) Cinnamon edition

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bad medicine »

Hugh Neutron wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:28 am
What made Mint 17/Ubuntu 14.04 LTS's package base better?

By all means keep using it and ignore updates while the rest of us stay up to date.
Is someone still using it?
Thinkpad T430 Mint 19.1

bjmh46
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bjmh46 »

karlchen wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 am
Hi, bad medicine and bjmh46.

You have not mentioned any details about the hardware on which Linux Mint 17.x worked perfectly for you.
Could this not be the most likely reason for your dissatisfaction with more recent Linux Mint releases, specifically with Linux Mint 19.x?
Outdated hardware, which is no longer fully supported by current Linux (Mint) releases?

Based on my own experience - and my machines, which run Mint releases, are pretty old, around 10 years - I can truthfully tell that I have got no reason to complain about either Mint 18.x, nor Mint 19.x. Note: no kernel 5.x.x on any of my old machines, yet.
Technical details can be retrieved here: PB laptop, Acer netbook, Zotac mini-desktop, Medion desktop

I am pretty sure that in the near future, new Linux (Mint) releases may no longer run as happily on those aging machines as the current releases still do.

Best regards,
Karl
Karl,
I mentioned it at the time--thinkpad l520, 2nd gen i5, two of them--nothing special. Absolutely refused to suspend reliably on mint18.x. I forget who, but someone here at the time suggested that I shouldn't suspend. As to your other point, age of hardware, i would normally agree but funny thing was at the time (and still) two older laptops (thinkpad sl510, core2-duo) would suspend 100% reliably on 18.x--go figure! I'm currently running a t530 thinkpad, and a dell latitude e6530 as my daily drivers on mint 18.3 xfce. So, old hardware like you. One of the sl510s is also running 18.3 and is my media server.

Regards
Bob

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Schultz
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Schultz »

Hugh Neutron wrote:
By all means keep using it and ignore updates while the rest of us stay up to date.
If you're referring to me (since your post was immediately after mine), where did I say I was still using it? Or if you're referring to the OP, look at his second sentence in the original post. He specifically stated he isn't using 17 anymore. :?

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by ZakGordon »

Cinnamon 17.1 was the first Linux Mint i tried (i had tried Ubuntu Fiesty Fawn back in the day as my other Linux experience) on this Vista era Acer Travel-mate. I immediately loved 17.1 because it felt and looked familiar enough to this mostly windows user. I did not have to do much in the terminal and that was fine by me.

However 17.1 ran hot on the same hardware Vista did not, and on another machine that eventually proved fatal (the machine is dead). Despite that i liked what Mint was doing and i got a handle on the heat issues mostly on this Acer laptop (it still runs hotter than it used to under Vista, but not dangerously hot anymore).

I then moved to XFCE 17.3 at some point and currently am on XFCE 18.1 on the Acer laptop. All versions of Mint have run a little hotter than i would like on this old laptop. I also have XFCE 19.1 installed on a desktop Ryzen 5 system (and all temps are fine on that machine).

Out of all the versions i have tried so far i would say the differences between 17 & 18 (that i tried) were not that noticeable, everything looks and works more or less the same.

19.1 was a little more 'rough around the edges' perhaps, just in the general look and feel of the GUI aspects (i did not try Cinnamon but have seen pics of it and the GUI 'downgrade' (say in Update Manager) seems to be there also). By 'downgrade' i just mean a less smooth finish, in menu's etc. It looks a little more influenced by Windows 8 GUI (flat design) rather than say Windows 7 or Apple (with those nice transparencies and rounded edges etc).

However the fact it is NOT cooking my system (XFCE 19.1 that is) is making it my favourite experience of Linux Mint to date.

So i guess it really is an 'in the eye of the beholder' kind of thing. Things change and not all change is good (my god that Windows 8 GUI influence on the WORLD! ;) ). But in the case of Mint 19.1 it is not killing my hardware, for which i am more than thankful.
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

bad medicine
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by bad medicine »

Moem wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:06 am

The update manager seemed easier to understand, it was in fact easier to misunderstand. Personally, I thought it was better not to update certain things. Now I update everything, it's in fact pretty easy!
I don't update nearly as much now, because I don't know whether I really need to. I liked the old system much better, where I only applied high risk/value updates. Now I don't know which ones those are. This was a very Microsoftish move, IMO. Is there are talk of bringing back the old, more useful upgrade manager, or giving us the option?


As for the panel, you're not alone in that, try this: viewtopic.php?p=1748354#p1748354
Ah, thanks, that helped cure one of my panel problems
Thinkpad T430 Mint 19.1

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Portreve »

bad medicine wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:29 am
constant usb troubles
my accidental deletion when typing problems have now followed 19 to a new computer, which is the old computer I had 17 on which never had the problem
I have to hunt for my storage drive when I save or open files
and more
At some point, bad medicine, it would be nice to get more specific details on the problems you're having. It goes without saying that whatever the true cause of whatever the problems actually are, they are unique and isolated to your particular installation.

Rants don't really do anybody very much good, least of all the original poster.

I'm running a 2011 MacBook Pro and it runs LM 19.3 flawlessly. It did have some issues under 19.2 towards the end of its time with wireless, but whatever the root cause of that was, it's gone now. Other than that, I've never had problems with LM.
Please remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
— Voltaire

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Moem
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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Moem »

bad medicine wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:16 pm
I don't update nearly as much now, because I don't know whether I really need to. I liked the old system much better, where I only applied high risk/value updates.
Sounds like you like to live dangerously. ;-)

Just apply all updates and make sure the system restore utility (Timeshift) is set up as it should be. That's it, that's all. That's the recommended method.
bad medicine wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Is there are talk of bringing back the old, more useful upgrade manager, or giving us the option?
I've not heard any. The rationale is that under the old system, users used to have a false sense of security, a false sense of understanding what should be updated and what should not be, and thus tended to avoid certain updates... resulting in vulnerabilities remaining unpatched.
bad medicine wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Ah, thanks, that helped cure one of my panel problems
Sometimes, all you have to do is ask.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: 17 worked better

Post by Pjotr »

bad medicine wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Is there are talk of bringing back the old, more useful upgrade manager, or giving us the option?
This might be of help:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... e.html#ID3
(item 3 and further)
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 20 Ulyana
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.

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