Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

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BaronCabbage
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Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

Somewhere in the vicinity of 25 years ago I tried Linux for the first time. It was a version of Red Hat included with a book I bought at Chapters. After browsing the book for a bit I installed it... and that was about it. I couldn't get the damn thing online and solving that riddle proved impossible. If you couldn't get online in the 90s what was the point of living. It was an exercise in frustration.

In 2002 I switched to mac to use the Mbox by Digidesign to run ProTools LE. The first one was a blue indigo. I've been relatively happy with mac. My main program is Logic for my music hobby and it's great. A few years ago, out of the blue, I decided to put a PC together. Seemed like a good time to see what they've been up to in Windoz world and maybe play a few new games. I've had no issues with it since I put it together.

A few weeks ago my 10 year old iMac died. While looking for a replacement for the dead iMac I found myself browsing Linux youtube videos. After a week of that I decided to give Mint a try. I managed to install it easily enough as a dual boot. Sadly it bricked my bootloader. I could no longer get into Win10. I spent the next 4 days trying to get it off of my pc. Thankfully with help from the fantastic Mint community I appear to have succeeded. Thanks.

That said I don't think I'll be revisiting Linux again unless I decide to put together a linux only pc. 25 years on and the damn thing is messing up on the install. Really linux? A lot of people who aren't linux savvy are going to be immediately put off by the first stumbling block they hit. On the surface many distros look to emulate Windoz and MacOS for ease of use and an appealing, familiar interface, but that learning curve gets really steep when you suddenly find yourself having to fix something. I've had Windoz and OS issues over the years, but nothing has been as difficult to fix as issues with linux. The water gets deep fast and that's where it loses its appeal to many average users. I'd rather spend my time playing guitar or spanking the kids than googling for days trying to get my computer back. I certainly appreciate the appeal and power of linux, but it's not for me it seems. Not yet anyway. Perhaps in another 25 years.

Farewell Linux.

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absque fenestris
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by absque fenestris »

Your point of view is easy to understand. In my case, I take care of half a dozen PPC Macs with OSX 10.4 and 10.5 and a 17-year-old IBM server with a 9-year-old Ubuntu-Studio. So I still have access to my graphics, CAD and modeling programs and to all devices, whether they are connected via Ethernet, SCSI, Firewire or USB.
When playing the guitar I simply switched to my pretty good compact cassette player with 2 microphones and a Korg mixer (found in a cellar) for the purpose of recording.
Very relaxing...
Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia (Mate) 32-bit - Acer D250 Netbook (Intel Atom N270, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD)
Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa (Mate) 64-bit - MacBook Pro 15" (Intel Core2 Duo, 8 GB RAM, 240 GB SSD) - with some separation difficulties...

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karlchen
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by karlchen »

Yes, I do understand the trouble with Linux systems for users of Windows and Mac systems.

For Mac systems, definitely the producer has made sure that hardware and software and in particular hardware drivers are available, pre-installed and work hand in hand. You switch on the machine and never bother to waste a thought on driver support and correct configuration.

For Windows systems, the same is promised to their users as well. Yet, because the hardware is pretty different, on which Windows has to run, depending on the producers, driver support is an issue on Windows. Yet, the hardware vendors make sure that the machines, which they sell to you, come with the right set of proprietary hardware drivers pre-installed. Again, the end user only has to switch on the machine and not bother too much on driver support. At least is most cases.

For Linux systems, as a rule, there is no-one who pre-installs it on any new machine and who sells it ready to use to the end user. All of a sudden the end user finds himself in the position, where he is his own system administrator. All the installation and configuration work, which Apple does for their customers, Dell/HP/Lenovo etc pp do for their customers, has to be done by the Linux end user himself. And not too surprising, quite a few new Linux users cannot handle this situation and do not want to. So they give up and go back to where they came from.
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absque fenestris
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by absque fenestris »

As a supplement: many companies are simply not interested in a seamless use of Linux. Expressed diplomatically.
Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia (Mate) 32-bit - Acer D250 Netbook (Intel Atom N270, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD)
Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa (Mate) 64-bit - MacBook Pro 15" (Intel Core2 Duo, 8 GB RAM, 240 GB SSD) - with some separation difficulties...

RollyShed
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by RollyShed »

BaronCabbage wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:45 pm
That said I don't think I'll be revisiting Linux again unless I decide to put together a linux only pc. 25 years on and the damn thing is messing up on the install. Really linux? .... I've had Windoz and OS issues over the years, but nothing has been as difficult to fix as issues with linux.... I'd rather spend my time playing guitar
Farewell Linux.
OK, but what about it when Microsoft totally destroys the Windows system, wipes everything? Yes, the dreaded Oct 2018 update. So she uses Linux Mint and has not had a single problem since but plays ukulele though brought up playing classical guitar.

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

OK, but what about it when Microsoft totally destroys the Windows system, wipes everything? Yes, the dreaded Oct 2018 update. So she uses Linux Mint and has not had a single problem since but plays ukulele though brought up playing classical guitar.

I'll still have my mac mini :wink:

pbear
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by pbear »

BaronCabbage wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:45 pm
I don't think I'll be revisiting Linux again unless I decide to put together a linux only pc.
That's the simple answer. In my neck of the woods, one can pick up a used Win7 laptop for about $100. Get something like that, put Linux on it and play in your spare time. No risk, little cost. Think of it as a puzzle. And maybe you get an emergency backup computer out of the deal.

ZakGordon
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by ZakGordon »

BaronCabbage wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:45 pm
Sadly it bricked my bootloader. I could no longer get into Win10. I spent the next 4 days trying to get it off of my pc. Thankfully with help from the fantastic Mint community I appear to have succeeded. Thanks.

That said I don't think I'll be revisiting Linux again unless I decide to put together a linux only pc. 25 years on and the damn thing is messing up on the install. Really linux? A lot of people who aren't linux savvy are going to be immediately put off by the first stumbling block they hit.
To be fair to Linux Mint, and i speak as someone totally impartial in a "Windows vs Linux" debate (i use both, as per the link in my sig); that is ALL the fault of Windows 10.

And to be 100% clear here, Windows 10 is the worst thing to happen to the most widely used OS in the world. How it's been designed, the way MS have more or less forced hardware vendors to 'tie-into' the OS, THAT is where the fault for your (and many, many other people just like you that have problems when trying to dual boot Windows 10) problems lay.

If you were using Windows 8 or 7 you would likely not have the issue at all (or just in very rare cases).

Windows 10 does not want you to have choice. It's as simple as that. For my part i find that unacceptable, which is why i'll never use Windows 10 and have moved to Linux Mint for all my internet related activities. Windows 10 ensured i became a Linux Mint user ;)

Obviously your totally in the right to make your own choice in this issue, i just wanted to give you the full reasons for the problems you (and others) have in relation to trying Windows 10 dual-boot with a Linux OS.

MS have made it as uncomfortable as possible, on purpose. Just as they make it as difficult as possible to run older versions of Windows (even currently still supported ones like W8.1) on newer hardware.
Last edited by ZakGordon on Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

I put that PC together in 2016 so I don't have any experience with Win 7 or 8, but I heard some good things ;) The reasons you give for moving to linux are why I was checking it out again. It has come a long way since I used it way back, but until it's on its' own machine I'll have to wait to revisit.

ZakGordon
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by ZakGordon »

And if you do want to dual-boot Windows 10 (with anything else) in future i would recommend going for separate installs on separate drives, just to be 100% sure Windows 10 can not destroy your dual-boot setup.

That is more or less how i set mine up.

2xSSD
connect just one: install Windows on that. Disconnect it when done.
connect the other: install Linux Mint on it.
connect both SSD's.
Enter Bios and decide which SSD/OS you want to boot first. There are various steps you could take to add either a GRUB boot menu or rely on using a function key (normally either F11 or F12) to access both during boot.

This setup will ensure Windows 10 does not overwrite your dual-boot system.
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

ZakGordon wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:51 am
And if you do want to dual-boot Windows 10 (with anything else) in future i would recommend going for separate installs on separate drives, just to be 100% sure Windows 10 can not destroy your dual-boot setup.

That is more or less how i set mine up.

2xSSD
connect just one: install Windows on that. Disconnect it when done.
connect the other: install Linux Mint on it.
connect both SSD's.
Enter Bios and decide which SSD/OS you want to boot first. There are various steps you could take to add either a GRUB boot menu or rely on using a function key (normally either F11 or F12) to access both during boot.

This setup will ensure Windows 10 does not overwrite your dual-boot system.
:D I was going to ask about doing this this is a separate post. I didn't know if it would make a difference. Right now I have Win10 on an ssd and then a reg 1tb drive for storage. Would you have to disconnect both when installing linux, or just the main ssd? How do you setup the boot menu?

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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by ZakGordon »

Well are you thinking of using the SSD for Windows 10 and the HDD for Mint?

Personally i would spend $50 (maybe less, they are very cheap right now?) or so and get another SSD. Then you could have an SSD for each boot OS and keep the HDD for storage or games that don't require fast data transfer (most games in fact). For Linux Mint a 128GB drive is plenty, you could get away with less for sure.

If Windows 10 is already on your first SSD, then when (if) you get a second SSD (make sure you can install it to your system! like do you have physical space (if a laptop) and a spare SATA port and power plug to connect it up), unplug that first SSD from the system before installing Linux Mint on the new second SSD. I also like to disconnect the HDD when installing dual-boot on SSD. You don't need to as you are just telling to OS to use the respective SSD's, but i like to be sure nothing get 'lost' in the install, so just have one storage medium connected during an OS install.

It would be the same principle if you wanted to install Mint on that HDD, but again that would limit your access to it via Windows (and maybe you could mess up the Mint install this way).

To access any boot setup (like to decide what storage boots first) you go into your Bios and how to do that will be in the manual your motherboard came with. You then just organise the boot menu options to your preference.

On my system i have in my 'Boot Order Menu':

SSD1(500GB) = Windows and this boots first
SSD2(128GB) = Linux Mint and this is set to boot second (if for example there was a problem with SSD1)
DVD-ROM = 3rd boot option (just incase i want to re-install an OS or run a DVD diagnostic disk etc)

-------------

HDD1(2TB) = just storage and where i put most of my games and specific work programs (under Windows), but i can access the drive in Mint also if i need to (like to move stuff around etc).

So when i boot up, without pressing any keys, it goes to Windows. However when i want to use Linux Mint (say for doing stuff on the internet because i trust it much more than Windows these days) i press my boot menu key (F11) during boot up and it gives a menu so i can select either drive to boot into (and i choose Mint if using the F11 key).

On some motherboards it will be F12, or maybe even another key, and the details will be in the motherboard manual.

The biggest advantage is this stops Windows messing with any boot loader as each OS has been installed in isolation, so they keep their boot loaders separate.

The second big advantage is if one SSD goes down, you lose nothing as the other will be there to boot from. When both OS are on the same SSD and you have a problem with that SSD, you lose the use of the PC.

I hope that was not too long a post! Pjotr's guides are good for learning good ways of setting systems with Mint up:

https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/p/2.html

I also have the dual-boot tutorial thing, that you can pick bits from to suit your specific set up etc.
Last edited by ZakGordon on Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:33 am, edited 4 times in total.
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by AZgl1500 »

BaronCabbage wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:03 am

:D I was going to ask about doing this this is a separate post. I didn't know if it would make a difference. Right now I have Win10 on an ssd and then a reg 1tb drive for storage. Would you have to disconnect both when installing linux, or just the main ssd? How do you setup the boot menu?
it will be easier for you, if you temporarily take the storage drive out of the PC/laptop.

when you plug it back in, Mint will find it.

that said, my current laptop came with the Win10 SSD setup as a RAID drive.
Linux did not even recognise it.

I plugged in a 2nd SSD and 19.3 saw it and installed w/o a hitch.

I use the BIOS to select which OS is to be used.... as I very rarely use Win10, that is not a problem. it always goes to 19.3 Cinnamon on bootup.
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

AZgl1500 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:23 am

it will be easier for you, if you temporarily take the storage drive out of the PC/laptop.

when you plug it back in, Mint will find it.
Good to know thanks.

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »

ZakGordon wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:21 am
Well are you thinking of using the SSD for Windows 10 and the HDD for Mint?
I'd definitely pick up a new ssd for it.

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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by ZakGordon »

BaronCabbage wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:38 am
ZakGordon wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:21 am
Well are you thinking of using the SSD for Windows 10 and the HDD for Mint?
I'd definitely pick up a new ssd for it.
Cool. And you got the spare SATA connections and power cables (from your PSU) for that? Just checking you can physically add a new SSD to your system :)
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

BaronCabbage
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by BaronCabbage »


ZakGordon
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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by ZakGordon »

Ah cool! Glad the 'adventure continues' for you :D
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by bobbyk »

I got lucky, I found myself in possession of two computers. So, the new one remains Windows 10 and the older one( about a year old) is Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.3. I love Linux and it has a sweet home with a 1TB Drive.
HP 24 All In One Intel i3 2.4 GHZ 4GB Ram I TB HD Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.3
Linux Rocks! The Mint Man says so.

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Re: Farewell Linux I hardly knew ye.....

Post by hag6 »

Interesting thread. Currently I am running a dual boot configuration with Linux mint sharing a 128 ssd with win7 (disconnected from the internet). I am considering a fresh install on a new 1gb ssd of Linux Mint and running windows 10 in virtual box. Reading this thread has got me thinking that installing the two OSs on separate drives may be a better option. What are the pros and cons of each configuration. Thanks

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