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Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:32 am
by paranightpara8
Some of Mint users think and write, that Compiz is neccessary for functionality of such topics like "minimize, maximize, close" buttons, drawin title bars, panels and so on.
False.
Compiz is not neccessary and i can prove it by using pure Debian Linux system with Mate Desktop in it:
by default, Debian does not install Compiz at all, but all basic functionaltiy and - even changing themes and panels' opacity, putting images on them, etc., - works out of the box, i can prove it because i see all packets with "compiz" word NOT installed by default and do not miss any functionality in my dekstop.
After some debates i intalled it and saw reason, why some users think, it is neccessary: it has so interface, that is with buttons and names of this functionality, but:
THE meaning of these are NOT functionality, BUT effect on it... :!: :!: :!:

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:52 am
by Kadaitcha Man
paranightpara8 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:32 am
... i can prove it because i see all packets with "compiz" word NOT installed by default ...
That's not a reliable way to prove that some software X is not installed. There are many packages installed that don't show up as installed. All you've proven is that the package is not listed as installed.

Code: Select all

kman@rooter:~$ sudo apt policy dnsmasq
[sudo] password for kman:       
dnsmasq:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 2.80-1
  Version table:
     2.80-1 500
        500 http://debian.mirror.serversaustralia.com.au/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://debian.mirror.serversaustralia.com.au/debian buster/main i386 Packages
You can bet your bottom dollar that it is indeed installed though.

Code: Select all

kman@rooter:~$ locate dnsmasq
/etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq-shared.d
/etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/dnsmasq.conf
/usr/sbin/dnsmasq
/usr/share/dnsmasq-base
/usr/share/dnsmasq-base/trust-anchors.conf
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/DBus-interface.gz
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/FAQ.gz
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/README.Debian
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/changelog.Debian.gz
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/changelog.archive.gz
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/changelog.gz
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/copyright
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/doc.html
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/examples
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/setup.html
/usr/share/doc/dnsmasq-base/examples/dnsmasq.conf.example
/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/es/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/id/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/it/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/no/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/locale/ro/LC_MESSAGES/dnsmasq.mo
/usr/share/man/es/man8/dnsmasq.8.gz
/usr/share/man/fr/man8/dnsmasq.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/dnsmasq.8.gz
/var/lib/dpkg/info/dnsmasq-base.conffiles
/var/lib/dpkg/info/dnsmasq-base.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/dnsmasq-base.md5sums
/var/lib/dpkg/info/dnsmasq-base.postinst
/var/lib/dpkg/info/dnsmasq-base.postrm

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:17 am
by paranightpara8
This what You wrote, does not have any common with the topic because:
1. You write about Network Manager, not about Compiz. :!:
2. Your first command shows nothing more, what Synaptic can not to show, and yes, it is shown on my debian system too, it is installed by default. So - what?.. :?:
3. Your second command is not about package, but about files with specific name on a file system, which - yes, belongs to that package, because that package has a specific name too. :!:

Short summary: You have not proved anything about the neccessity of compiz - which is NOT neccessary...

Any more constructive talks about this topic - not misuse? :?:

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:21 am
by Kadaitcha Man
paranightpara8 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:17 am
This what You wrote, does not have any common with the topic because:
1. You write about Network Manager, not about Compiz. :!:
example : noun

noun: example; plural noun: examples

1. a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:24 am
by paranightpara8
Sorry for a statement, but you are not right at this discussion...

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:37 am
by AZgl1500
paranightpara8 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:32 am
Some of Mint users think and write, that Compiz is neccessary for functionality of such topics like "minimize, maximize, close" buttons, drawin title bars, panels and so on.
False.
Compiz is not neccessary and i can prove it by using pure Debian Linux system with Mate Desktop in it:
by default, Debian does not install Compiz at all, but all basic functionaltiy and - even changing themes and panels' opacity, putting images on them, etc., - works out of the box, i can prove it because i see all packets with "compiz" word NOT installed by default and do not miss any functionality in my dekstop.
After some debates i intalled it and saw reason, why some users think, it is neccessary: it has so interface, that is with buttons and names of this functionality, but:
THE meaning of these are NOT functionality, BUT effect on it... :!: :!: :!:
your phrasing is a bit strange, and I don't understand why you need to make a big deal out of this.

Compiz is not installed in 19.3 Cinnamon at all,
and I can't recall if it was in any of the previous version of Cinnamon ??
I have used 17.x and 18.x and now 19.x

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:51 am
by Moem
This post does not contain a 'suggestion or new idea', so it will be moved.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:57 pm
by rickNS
I been here quite awhile, and I never seen anyone say Compiz was necessary, so I wonder who the OP is arguing with ?

I do use compiz, and I like very much, actually often need, the enhanced desktop zoom feature. Some other stuff I just like.
AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:37 am
I don't understand why you need to make a big deal out of this.
Good point. Maybe just bored/trolling. Notice, very quick to argue with Kman.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:04 pm
by Kadaitcha Man
rickNS wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:57 pm
Notice, very quick to argue with Kman.
I have that effect on people.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:07 pm
by all41
rickNS wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:57 pm
I been here quite awhile, and I never seen anyone say Compiz was necessary, so I wonder who the OP is arguing with ?

I do use compiz, and I like very much, actually often need, the enhanced desktop zoom feature. Some other stuff I just like.

Have you tried compiz with Ulyana? For me it is not working the same as 19.3. I use it in MATE

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:14 pm
by rickNS
all41 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:07 pm

Have you tried compiz with Ulyana? For me it is not working the same as 19.3. I use it in MATE
No, but have the 20 beta in a VM will give it a quick test....and reply back here...shortly.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:22 pm
by all41
The trouble I am seeing is that keyboard focus seems to be held captive until I click on the desktop.
Keys such as Super (menu), Ctrl+Alt+T (terminal) and other keybindings will respond just once,
then I have to click on the desktop before they will operate again--but just once,
and then another desktop click is required. I have reset the compiz settings to default (nothing enabled)
with the same result.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:30 pm
by rickNS
@all41

Yeah same here (not working just right, just yet)

I put some checks in a bunch of boxes, then enabled compiz, to see the windows border disappear. Loosing the minimize, close buttons etc.
Is that something that happened to you ?

I'll restart, make sure I have everything checked that is supposed to (the same as I have it now on Mint 19.)

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:38 pm
by all41
I'll restart, make sure I have everything checked that is supposed to (the same as I have it now on Mint 19
The windows decoration is responsible for the border and window controls. That did not work in live mode but
works after install, so probably the same in vm.

Yes I set each of my settings exactly as 19.3 to make sure. Mostly I only use compiz for the place windows feature
but stealing the keyboard focus makes it a no-go for now. I tested some of the other features and they seem to be ok.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:51 pm
by rickNS
all41 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:38 pm
I'll restart, make sure I have everything checked that is supposed to (the same as I have it now on Mint 19
The windows decoration is responsible for the border and window controls. That did not work in live mode but
works after install, so probably the same in vm.

Yes I set each of my settings exactly as 19.3 to make sure. Mostly I only use compiz for the place windows feature
but stealing the keyboard focus makes it a no-go for now. I tested some of the other features and they seem to be ok.
Well I got the borders back, was just missing a check mark, but
CTRL + ALT + T, did NOT bring up a terminal, and yes I clicked on the empty desktop first, no change ?

This might be a deal breaker for me too. Or maybe it will work differently with the non-beta final version ?

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 pm
by all41
rickNS wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:51 pm
all41 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:38 pm
I'll restart, make sure I have everything checked that is supposed to (the same as I have it now on Mint 19
The windows decoration is responsible for the border and window controls. That did not work in live mode but
works after install, so probably the same in vm.

Yes I set each of my settings exactly as 19.3 to make sure. Mostly I only use compiz for the place windows feature
but stealing the keyboard focus makes it a no-go for now. I tested some of the other features and they seem to be ok.
Well I got the borders back, was just missing a check mark, but
CTRL + ALT + T, did NOT bring up a terminal, and yes I clicked on the empty desktop first, no change ?

This might be a deal breaker for me too. Or maybe it will work differently with the non-beta final version ?
Yeah, I hope so too. Did you try just the Super (Menu) key? With compiz running press the Super key--it will seem to work ok.
Then open your /home (or another directory--then close it out using the close button--now try the super key again.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:28 am
by AZgl1500
all41 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:22 pm
The trouble I am seeing is that keyboard focus seems to be held captive until I click on the desktop.
Keys such as Super (menu), Ctrl+Alt+T (terminal) and other keybindings will respond just once,
then I have to click on the desktop before they will operate again--but just once,
and then another desktop click is required. I have reset the compiz settings to default (nothing enabled)
with the same result.
that 'one feature' is enough to prevent me from ever trying to use it.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:44 am
by marts123
Well I got the borders back, was just missing a check mark, but
CTRL + ALT + T, did NOT bring up a terminal, and yes I clicked on the empty desktop first, no change ?
@rickNS
You can create a short cut to the terminal.
This chap here:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=321848

posted a utube video at the foot of his post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvR5yvahqOk

At about the 27:20 point he begins to show you how it done.

I cant remember how to do it myself..

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:38 am
by rickNS
all41 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 pm

Yeah, I hope so too. Did you try just the Super (Menu) key? With compiz running press the Super key--it will seem to work ok.
Then open your /home (or another directory--then close it out using the close button--now try the super key again.
No have not tried that.
Haven't done much experimenting at all really, busy with "other stuff".

Have you reported this bug ?

I might play with it a bit more later on today.
Frankly I'm not usually in any big hurry to upgrade, but I will at least get it on a persistent stick when the official release come down the pipe.
With the exception of one minor fixed bug (date/time was sometimes missing from panel) Mint 19.0 works just fine for me.

Re: Note for all: Compiz is NOT neccessary for functionality...

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:54 am
by KBD47
Doesn't MATE use Marco or sometimes Compton compositor?
A known way of speeding up most DE's is disabling the compositor. There is even a guide about it:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... -mint.html
Any machine I have with only 2 gb ram I disable the compositor to lessen ram use and speed it up. I generally do that with any DE that has less than 6-8 gb ram.
I believe Debian MATE 10 comes with Marco enabled, but it is easily disabled. Debian generally runs light and fast out of the box compared to Ubuntu based distributions even with compositor enabled.