LM 20.0 an utter disaster on less than latest hardware.

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How-old!
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LM 20.0 an utter disaster on less than latest hardware.

Post by How-old! »

Long-time Mint user, but 20.0 can be an utter disaster on less than latest hardware. Read the warnings about nV cards, etc. This one refuses to install on some SoC nV-based systems, SiS Mirage and other oddball video systems. It doesn't like some older 1024x!!! monitors, even some older SATA I hard drives, that work for every other distro. Yes, read all the tips&tricks, other Forums, plus 40yrs playing with the technology. Believe me, this one is a lemon. No point in describing ALL the issues encountered - there has to be a limit. Guess it's OK for rich kiddies with last weeks' technology on their desks, but in the real world, can encounter some folks still using 286 machines (with e.g. Puppy) - not Mint, but that's the reality. Mint 17 was brilliant - fast, runs on everything. Even Mint 19.3 ran on most kit if a bit top-heavy. With 20.0 get auto reboots, white screens (even with compat. mode), no screens, no GRUB menu access and a plethora of other issues. No point suggesting CLI fixes if it refuses to give a CLI ! Extremely disappointing. Does it have to be MX-19 from now on?! Just about every other distro can be persuaded to run on mostly all other reasonably decent kit. Maybe too much focus on unnecessary WARPSPEED gimmicks & co.? Some folks just like to get the work done...
Last edited by karlchen on Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title: made it express the topic and the hypothesis a bit more clearly, than a bare "LM 20.0" only

antikythera
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by antikythera »

The issue is most likely derived from using the ubuntu 20.04 code base and kernel 5.4 rather than attention to gimmicks. If you have an Ubuntu 20.04 ISO handy that would confirm whether it is Linux Mint to blame or the newer code base and kernel.

An alternative if you want to stay with LM would be to try LMDE4 which could be more compliant with your system.
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Pjotr
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Pjotr »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
some folks still using 286 machines (with e.g. Puppy) - not Mint, but that's the reality.
Fossilized tech junk like that should be taken behind the barn and forcibly shot. Or exhibited in a museum. :twisted:
How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
Some folks just like to get the work done...
If you have the desire to get the work done, I'd recommend to start by dumping your 286 machines. :lol:

Seriously: these days you can even get second-hand machines for next to nothing, that'll run just fine on Mint 20. I fail to see the problem.
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
Some folks just like to get the work done...
3 out of 10 for the rant. I've seen better. 1 out of 10 for keeping up with progress.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by How-old! »

Many thanks for your suggestion, antikythera! The other two respondents seem to have trouble with their parsing - nowhere do I say I'm still using a 286, I have up-to-date kit on which I'm typing right now. And, yes, I am keeping up with the hardware very well thank you! Anyone for Qbits?!

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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:24 am
The other two respondents seem to have trouble with their parsing - nowhere do I say I'm still using a 286...
Those in glasshouses ought to refrain from throwing rocks. Nothing was said by me about you using 286's, it wasn't even implied. 8 out of 10 for the self-nuke.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.

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Portreve
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Portreve »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
Long-time Mint user, but 20.0 can be an utter disaster on less than latest hardware. <-- snip -->
Uh huh. I see.
Pjotr wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:59 am

Fossilized tech junk like that should be taken behind the barn and forcibly shot. Or exhibited in a museum. :twisted:
Image
If you have the desire to get the work done, I'd recommend to start by dumping your 286 machines. :lol:

Seriously: these days you can even get second-hand machines for next to nothing, that'll run just fine on Mint 20. I fail to see the problem.
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Pjotr wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:59 am
Fossilized tech junk like that should be taken behind the barn and forcibly shot. Or exhibited in a museum. :twisted:
This is what I see in my mind whenever I read a post from someone trying to get a leading edge OS running on a 2 core CPU from 2008...

20200705_230413.jpg
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by rene »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
but in the real world, can encounter some folks still using 286 machines (with e.g. Puppy)
No you can't. Linux has never run on a 286.

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Barbados99
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Barbados99 »

Yeah, I'm ticked off that Mint 20 won't even run on my abacus from the Hun Dynasty era. I'm sure all the "other" distros will run on it. Why not Mint? This proves that Mint 20 is a complete failure... right?
My homemade daily-driver:
Mint 20 XFCE - Mint 20 LMDE4 Cinnamon - EndeavourOS XFCE
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by majpooper »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:24 am
Many thanks for your suggestion, antikythera! The other two respondents seem to have trouble with their parsing - nowhere do I say I'm still using a 286, I have up-to-date kit on which I'm typing right now. And, yes, I am keeping up with the hardware very well thank you! Anyone for Qbits?!
I wonder if your problems are not the kernel?

I did have a problem after installing the nV driver from the Driver Manager but when I stayed with the open source driver the graphics worked OK. Unfortunately nV gives linux short shrift.

You kind of threw us all a curve ball bringing up the 286 technology - come on - in retrospect you have to admit that is a bit over the top. What version of Windows would you say could run on a 286 . . . . 3.11, 95, 98 maybe - and who even cares? I am running LM 20 on this 10 year old rig in a VM. I got 20 running on an old MacBook about a week or so ago . . . . just because I felt like it. Pretty old kit wouldn't you say? At the end of the day if one is running really old hardware, you know like 286, then yeah, Mint is probably not the solution.

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by rene »

majpooper wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:35 pm
What version of Windows would you say could run on a 286 . . . . 3.11
Only in "standard mode", i.e., as little more than a graphical DOS-overlay,
majpooper wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:35 pm
95, 98 maybe
Definite nope.

The 286 was still a 16-bit CPU with as the most definite result needing a segmented architecture so as to be able to address more than 2^16=64K of memory. The 32-bit architecture of the 386 (not supported by Linux any more since 8 years or so, but not in a fundamental sense) paved the way for modern OSen, Windows 9x included. The fundamental nature of the difference here says that rather than throwing a curve ball, and rather than having dropped it, poster has in fact not even seen the ball.

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by antikythera »

Anyone remember the Cyrix P166+? I had an IBM Aptiva with one of them, the motherboard had integrate ATI graphics but they were crap. I installed a VooDoo 2 along with a whopping 32MB RAM and wasted far too much time playing Tomb Raider on that when I should have been studying :D
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by 151tom »

How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
Does it have to be MX-19 from now on?!
Nothing wrong with MX 19 it's rock solid and works OOTB on my 2008 and 2010 dual core Frankenstein computers without any problems. :D

Not everyone is a Linux Mint fan and that's the beauty of Linux is having many different choices. 8)
Last edited by 151tom on Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Barbados99
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Barbados99 »

151tom wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:19 pm
How-old! wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:34 am
Does it have to be MX-19 from now on?!
Nothing wrong with MX 19 it's rock solid and works OOTB on my 2008 and 2010 dual core Frankenstein computers without any problems. :D

Not everyone is a Linux Mint fan and that's the beauty of Linux is having many different choices. 8)
I was just thinking the very same thing but you beat me to posting it. That is the beauty of Linux. We have a lot of distros to choose from and if one isn't fitting our needs then we can try something else. We can't expect Mint to be designed for ancient computers and still perform well on modern computers. That's just not realistic. But no worries because there are a number of distros targeting older computers.
My homemade daily-driver:
Mint 20 XFCE - Mint 20 LMDE4 Cinnamon - EndeavourOS XFCE
Ryzen 5 3600 - GeForce GTX 1660 - BenQ 27"
1TB NVMe SSD - 32GB DDR4 - and a lot of old parts from the scrap pile

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by mr_raider »

No version of Mint is truly "light". XFCE and MAte are "lighter", but Mint is not for legacy hardware. For stuff from the 90s, I would suggest looking at other distros. Mint is the wrong tree to be barking at. It's a full modern OS, that is only marginally lighter then Ubuntu. The fact that even XFCE recommedns 2 gigs of RAM should be an indication.
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Re: LM 20.0

Post by Barbados99 »

mr_raider wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:20 pm
No version of Mint is truly "light". XFCE and MAte are "lighter", but Mint is not for legacy hardware. For stuff from the 90s, I would suggest looking at other distros. Mint is the wrong tree to be barking at. It's a full modern OS, that is only marginally lighter then Ubuntu. The fact that even XFCE recommends 2 gigs of RAM should be an indication.
A few years ago I had a very old computer that I tried Peppermint Linux on and I was very pleased with that distro. It was a joy to use. It's been a few years ago, but I remember they had a messageboard forum that had helpful people posting on too. It has LXDE for the DE. Fossbytes just did an article a few weeks ago listing the top 10 lightweight distros of Linux for 2020 and Peppermint was on that list. Here's the link to the article:

https://fossbytes.com/best-lightweight-linux-distros/

I've also used some of the others on that Fossbytes list but Peppermint was my favorite. Manjaro XFCE is on that list and I have used that, and liked it. But it didn't seem as light as some of the others on that list that I've used. At least not to me. If you want more info on Peppermint, here is a link to their site:

https://peppermintos.com/about/
My homemade daily-driver:
Mint 20 XFCE - Mint 20 LMDE4 Cinnamon - EndeavourOS XFCE
Ryzen 5 3600 - GeForce GTX 1660 - BenQ 27"
1TB NVMe SSD - 32GB DDR4 - and a lot of old parts from the scrap pile

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by rambo919 »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:13 am
This is what I see in my mind whenever I read a post from someone trying to get a leading edge OS running on a 2 core CPU from 2008...
There is nothing wrong with those CPU's..... they are a bit slower but they still do everything you need (and does it well) unless your OS is bloated or you want to do heavy things.

The only actually obsolete CPU's are P4 and older.
Last edited by rambo919 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LM 20.0

Post by rambo919 »

antikythera wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:57 am
The issue is most likely derived from using the ubuntu 20.04 code base and kernel 5.4 rather than attention to gimmicks. If you have an Ubuntu 20.04 ISO handy that would confirm whether it is Linux Mint to blame or the newer code base and kernel.

An alternative if you want to stay with LM would be to try LMDE4 which could be more compliant with your system.
Could be worse than that. Something changed in the kernel past 4.15 that introduced new incompatibility issues on a large variety of hardware.

I will only upgrade to LM20 to test this weekend but currently on LM19.3 I have an issue where ANY kernel past 4.15 results in refusals to log in. It tries but then kicks me back to the login screen. Using 4.15 my monitor on a DP port refuses to use anything other than 4k unless I change the resolution a few times... not just once I have to go down and up a few times for it to display on the resolution it's actually configured for.

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Re: LM 20.0 an utter disaster on less than latest hardware.

Post by antikythera »

Interesting, that log on refusal and resolution issue seems routed in possible GPU driver or Xorg compatibility issues though. If you haven't already done so it may be worth opening a thread about them. Post the full hardware information for your machine from inxi in it as described in the 'how to get help' thread.
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