My opinion: upgrade Ulyana; don't clean install

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cecilieaux
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My opinion: upgrade Ulyana; don't clean install

Post by cecilieaux »

I just moved "up" to Linux Mint 20 Ulyana in two computers.

UPGRADE EXPERIENCE

In the upgrade, using mintupgrade in the command line, following the instructions at https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedoc ... nt-20.html, I found quite a few obstacles clearing out the "foreign" applications.

However, in the end, I ended up with all my important applications (inclusing my precious Autokey). Plus I had energy to install Acrobat Reader DC, under WINE, given that this is the global standard. My desktop machine is in tip top shape.

CLEAN INSTALL

I tried to do the same in my laptop and I got tired of dealing with the "foreign" applications, so I went for a clean install. Followed instructions at https://itsfoss.com/install-linux-mint/ ... ce+Blog%29

In the process, I ruined a DVD, messed up a USB (still have to try to reformat, software complains there's "activity" going on). Had to try 3 times in various iterations. (Yes, some of this is my newbie stupidity; maybe I am getting older, too. I'm not a wiz at burning images, OK?)

Had to reinstall Autokey, some browser extensions are not available, my beloved Cherrytree note taker is not ready for Ubuntu 20 (I'm going to try installing the old .deb), I've lost my themes and customizations.

Plus it's been effing DAYS and things are not back to normal. (I'm writing in my nice desktop with all my doodads.)

MY ADVICE

Upgrade and patiently overcome the obstacles. Mint 20, an achievement given a pandemia, downgrades too much usable software still and leaves some gaps. A clean install will drive most people who are not Übergeeks absolutely crazy.

Thinking of eventually switching to a distro with a rolling release. Or going back to Ubuntu. I have even weighed ... dare I say it? No, this is a family forum.
Last edited by cecilieaux on Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

cecilieaux wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:02 pm
MY ADVICE

Upgrade...
Whereas those of us with experience, and who also provide support here to others, would encourage users to backup and clean install.
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all41
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by all41 »

+1 on this. Especially for those who have ventured outside the repositories for apps that may not be compatible with the new base.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by decrepit »

I think I'll do my normal trick of dual booting 19.3 and 20, then I just start using 20 when I'm happy with it, and put 21 or 22 where 19 is now.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by all41 »

I will add that I initially tested the upgrade method as soon as it was posted and it did not fare well. Those instructions were subsequently revised.
On the test machine I re-installed a fresh install of LM 19.3 MATE, performed all available updates for 19.3, but added no additional programs or outside sources. I followed the revised upgrade instructions to the letter and the in-place upgrade worked perfectly.
Yes it was time consuming and download intensive--but it did work fine in this scenario. So kudos to Clem and the Mint dev team.

Still, all being considered, I would choose the backup everything and do a fresh install route.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by all41 »

decrepit wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:53 am
I think I'll do my normal trick of dual booting 19.3 and 20, then I just start using 20 when I'm happy with it, and put 21 or 22 where 19 is now.
@decrepit--that's what I do
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by spamegg »

My experience was the exact opposite.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Tenantry »

Upgrade worked well for me, but this rig was on a fairly new 19.03 anyway. Was ready for things to brake but worked out ok. :D
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by hydrurga »

decrepit wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:53 am
I think I'll do my normal trick of dual booting 19.3 and 20, then I just start using 20 when I'm happy with it, and put 21 or 22 where 19 is now.
This is what I do too. I usually start with the Beta of the new version (which Mint has usually done so much testing on already that it's not far off being the finished product) and the "handover" usually takes me 1 or 2 days. There are almost always small issues to deal with regarding the new version, PPA's to install, little quirks to resolve etc., but I blitz them all and get them over with as soon as I can.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Hoser Rob »

What utter rubbish. This i8s EXACTLY the opposite of what anyone with 2 clues to rub together suggests. YOU messed it up.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by JoeFootball »

cecilieaux wrote: A clean install will drive most people who are not Übergeeks absolutely crazy.
Offering a contrary experience, I've been using LM 20 via a clean install since late June without incident.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Swampthing »

I did an upgrade on my main laptop and a clean install on my secondary with no problems and issues whatsoever .. :D
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by cecilieaux »

All I read here is "The Revenge of the Übergeeks" to an experience of a normal, non-techy user. Why is there such bile against ordinary users? How will Linux ever expand if its Übergeeks persist in being unfriendly to newbies (I feel like a newbie although I've been using Linux since the 90s because I am not a programmer and do not have computer science under my belt) without reasoning?

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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Barbados99 »

I've been lucky with the clean installs. But installing any OS, including Windows, can have issues. At least that's been my personal experience. And I do get super frustrated when something goes wrong with my OS. I'm not an IT guy either. But I do feel comfortable that when Mint breaks there have always been people on this forum to help me fix stuff. LOL, I'm always breaking stuff. As long as this Mint forum is here though, I'm good :-)

And I feel like I do learn more about Linux when I have to fix things from time to time. I don't like it when stuff breaks, but there is a benefit to learning how to fix things.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

cecilieaux wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:35 pm
All I read here is "The Revenge of the Übergeeks" to an experience of a normal, non-techy user. Why is there such bile against ordinary users? How will Linux ever expand if its Übergeeks persist in being unfriendly to newbies ...
All the "Übergeeks" are over at the Arch Linux forum. Everyone here is just a normal user.
cecilieaux wrote:(I feel like a newbie although I've been using Linux since the 90s because I am not a programmer and do not have computer science under my belt) without reasoning?
That's precisely why you shouldn't be offering advice, yet you did, and that advice is contrary to what the vast majority of helpers here recommend. Now, that latter point isn't so important if you hang around to fix up the mess you've created, but I don't see that happening. It's those that have a dim view of the advice that have to do the cleaning up for you.

At the end of the day, those of us who do the helping here will always raise the alarm and push back when we see very poor quality advice from inexperienced people. That doesn't mean it's not ok to express your opinion, it is ok, but when that opinion is phrased as poor advice then there's a problem. The first rule of technical support is to not let either your personal experience or your personal preference cloud the situation because that always leads to a poor outcome for the person who has a problem they need fixed. To put it simply, it wouldn't have been an issue had you said "this my great experience..." and left it there for people to decide for themselves or to seek the opinion of those who know better, but that didn't happen. What happened was: "MY ADVICE".

All caps are yours, not mine.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Swampthing wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:59 am
I did an upgrade on my main laptop and a clean install on my secondary with no problems and issues whatsoever .. :D
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by Portreve »

cecilieaux wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:02 pm
MY ADVICE

Upgrade and patiently overcome the obstacles. Mint 20, an achievement given a pandemia, downgrades too much usable software still and leaves some gaps. A clean install will drive most people who are not Übergeeks absolutely crazy.
This presupposes your needs are typical.

I grant you that being able to fully edit PDFs and do other things which require a full version of Adobe Acrobat is necessary in assorted professional circumstances, and some of the libre PDF editors may not be adequate replacements.

I'd never heard of Autokey before, so I just now googled it and that does look like interesting software. I'm going to see if I can get it directly on my clean-installed LM 20 system.

Trying to convert one GNU+Linux distro into another is simply not something I'm willing to do, so either I can install that program on what I have, or it's not worth the effort of having.
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cecilieaux
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by cecilieaux »

Portreve wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:22 pm

I'd never heard of Autokey before, so I just now googled it and that does look like interesting software. I'm going to see if I can get it directly on my clean-installed LM 20 system.
This is not the main issue (well, for me it's important). I found you *can* download it into Linux Mint 20 as a flatpak. Otherwise it's not ready. See my post viewtopic.php?p=1855027#p1855027
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by AndyMH »

My advice would always have been do a clean install on a major version change, it's what I've always done. Thought I'd try upgrade with LM19 to LM20 on one of my laptops and it worked. There were a few problems along the way, mainly because I had gm10's mint update installed. It has wiped all my ppas and additional repos which I'm slowly adding back, did have to re-install virtualbox and got a funny with backintime - yet to sort.

So at the moment I'm still leaning towards clean install, but less strongly than in the past:
  • clean install - I know what I'm doing, just working my way through my notes on what I've previously installed and where from.
  • upgrade - I'm essentially troubleshooting to find out what works, what's gone and what is mis-behaving. I also still have all the crud installed that I tried, never used and never got round to removing (and can't remember what it was).
Overall the level of effort is probably about the same, but one is open-ended with no fixed agenda.
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Re: Experience with Ulyana: upgrade, DON'T clean install

Post by acerimusdux »

If you keep /home on a separate partition, you CAN do a clean install without losing most all of your previous configurations, themes, customizations, etc. Just use the "something else" or "manual" option in the installer, and be sure to not format /home on the install. And use the same username when you create your user on install.
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