Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

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sgtor
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by sgtor »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:23 am
It seems like if people needed advice on why they should buy a SSD, then it would be appropriate to suggest installing a SSD for specific reasons.
Yes on any modern computer with an HDD, that HDD would be the final bottleneck in the computer that doesn't match up the rest of the hardware.

On some older computers this would still be true.

On very old computers this wouldn't be the case.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

sgtor wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:46 am
Yes on any modern computer with an HDD, that HDD would be the final bottleneck in the computer that doesn't match up the rest of the hardware.
I think it's more complex than that. HDDs today can top out at close to 175MB/s. While that's a way off the 500MB/s a SATA SSD is capable of, not all 500MB/s capable drives can reach anywhere near that 'theoretical maximum, and many SSDs now contain DDR4 RAM as a cache. These SSDs slow down dramatically when the cache fills, so it's a case of smoke and mirrors, and there are modern computers that would not ever see a 175MB/s spinning rust device as a bottleneck at all.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by RollyShed »

DorsetUK has the answer, use a slow machine so you can brew a cup of coffee while it boots up.

As for CtrlAltDel and his "an outdated i7-4790", I'm using an i5-4570 and "Yes, an SSD as the primary storage".

Lately a few laptops I've had dealings with have had SSDs fitted, boot time 20 - 25 seconds instead of 2 minutes with Linux Mint or 3+ minutes with the Windows10 they originally had. One user, a RAW picture would display after 5+ seconds, now they display instantly.

Cost here for 240GB SSD, under $50 which is less than $30US and 25 pounds UK. How many cups of coffee down at the coffee bar is that?

So the REAL question is, "Why not fit an SSD?"
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by bob466 »

My Tower is 7 yrs old and had a 500GB 7200 rpm HDD...Boot time was 36 seconds to Login screen and 16 seconds to Desktop. :)

I created an Image with Macrium...viewtopic.php?p=1434480#p1434480 and put is on my new 500GB SSD.

Boot time was slashed by two thirds...Boot time to Login screen is now 16 seconds and 4/5 seconds to Desktop. Image Everything else on the SSD opens in a flash...that was 17 months ago and it's just as fast now.

I use to think Linux Mint was fast on a HDD but on an SSD it's like lightning...so anyone thinking of switching to an SSD...do it...you'll never regret it. Image
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by Moem »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 pm
The truth is that I created a new signature file last night and just wanted to post something, anything, so people could see it. :oops:
I always block such large signature images the first time I see them. To me it's a waste of space and an annoyance to see the same image, no matter what it is, again and again (sometimes five time in the same topic).
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

On my tower that i built in 2015 it had a 7200 spinner HDD 500gig...I changed it out about a year and a half ago to a 256 gig SSD.
The HDD would take between 37 to 45 seconds on a cold boot...with the SSD, cold boot is always within 7 seconds...below is my systemd-analyze cold boot read out from this morning...and everything else is instantaneous, lightening fast...DAMIEN
damien@damien ~ $ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 1.735s (kernel) + 2.558s (userspace) = 4.293s
graphical.target reached after 2.553s in userspace
damien@damien ~ $
Ps...I also block large sig files as well as "flashies" the first time i see them as well. cant be bothered with the distracting annoyance.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

RollyShed wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:38 am
DorsetUK has the answer, use a slow machine so you can brew a cup of coffee while it boots up.

As for CtrlAltDel and his "an outdated i7-4790", I'm using an i5-4570 and "Yes, an SSD as the primary storage".

Lately a few laptops I've had dealings with have had SSDs fitted, boot time 20 - 25 seconds instead of 2 minutes with Linux Mint or 3+ minutes with the Windows10 they originally had. One user, a RAW picture would display after 5+ seconds, now they display instantly.

Cost here for 240GB SSD, under $50 which is less than $30US and 25 pounds UK. How many cups of coffee down at the coffee bar is that?

So the REAL question is, "Why not fit an SSD?"

For one thing, I already have two HDD's inside the box and that leaves me short on a power cable. I have one unused power cable but it is short and probably wouldn't reach the SSD's drive bay. This particular power cable splices off of the DVD's power cable and I'm not even entirely sure it is a regular power cable. I do have a third drive bay and a third SATA connection on the motherboard but, I do not have an extra SATA cable.

See how problems are already arising and and I haven't even bought anything yet.

I can't just throw away a perfectly good 1TB HDD either, even though they are now frowned upon by most computer users. Also, I'm not going to waste much more than $40 on an SSA, so I could only get a 240GB SSD, as you say.

And, correct me if I'm wrong but, 1TB is bigger than 240GB. See, another problem. And, what are the real advantages to an SSD anyway, besides boot time and opening large files? I never reboot because I leave my computer on all the time, for years on end, and I don't really have a lot of super large files that the computer struggles to open or anything.

When I do have a problem and have to shut down and restart, I've got things worked out to where it only takes about 1:15 seconds. Once I have programs loaded into memory, they load almost instantaneously the way it is now. Opera, Libre Writer, Gimp, and Vivaldi maybe take a few seconds to load the first time and after that, they open in milliseconds I would say. Every other program opens basically as soon as I click their icons.

Sure, I could go get a SSD and go through the hassle of installing it just for the prestige of being able to say I am using one, I suppose. But, frankly, I just don't need that type of recognition.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by exploder »

You could go out and buy the very best computer in the world today, and by tomorrow I could be telling you how you need to upgrade because there are better options already available. But, that would not be what someone wanted to hear because that isn't what they were asking for when they asked for advice on how to speed things up with the computer and hardware that they currently own.
There are tweak guides that a Google away for that. Your original question was,
Board index Chat Chat about Linux Mint

Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?


The answer is, yes in most cases. You get the most noticeable improvement! I am not talking synthetic benchmarks but improvements you can actually see. Tweaking the system will give very slight improvements but you will barely notice them. If I can take a 16 year old business class computer and make it noticeably fast by installing an SSD that says a lot!

The only real options if you stay with a HDD is using a lighter DE and tweaking things yourself. In the case of the laptop I gave my son, it has a fairly current quad core processor, 16 GB of RAM but it runs like a snail compared to the 16 year old desktop with an SSD. The laptop is an HP and I knew from past experience the plastic clips used on the touch pad and keyboard have a high chance of breaking taking it apart. It was deliberately made so the end user can't work on it. HP refuses to sell the end user these plastic clips also. It just wasn't worth messing with.

I do have all the tools to work on modern laptops. The clips become real brittle and even gluing the ribbon cables back on is next to impossible. If you own say an HP 15 laptop I would not advise taking it apart! I have had no issues with other manufacturer's like I have had with HP. In this case the advise to upgrade to an SSD is a bad idea!

In the end it's up to the individual on taking advice being given. You can take it or reject it, it's up to you. :)
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Sure, I could go get a SSD and go through the hassle of installing it just for the prestige of being able to say I am using one, I suppose. But, frankly, I just don't need that type of recognition.
Im sure that just the "prestige" and "recognition" of a very large signature is more than enough...DAMIEN
Last edited by DAMIEN1307 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:41 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

Moem wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:02 am
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 pm
The truth is that I created a new signature file last night and just wanted to post something, anything, so people could see it. :oops:
I always block such large signature images the first time I see them. To me it's a waste of space and an annoyance to see the same image, no matter what it is, again and again (sometimes five time in the same topic).
The signature image is within allowed dimensions or it wouldn't appear. So, technically, it isn't a large sig. file image; it is just right. Thanks for the rundown on your operating procedure though.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by Moem »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:26 am
The signature image is within allowed dimensions or it wouldn't appear. So, technically, it isn't a large sig.
You are technically correct. :wink:
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:23 am
Sure, I could go get a SSD and go through the hassle of installing it just for the prestige of being able to say I am using one, I suppose. But, frankly, I just don't need that type of recognition.
Im sure that just the "prestige" and "recognition" of a very large signature is more than enough...DAMIEN
But it isn't a very large signature file image. It is perfectly within the dimensions that are allowed on this forum. Simply because I choose not to use only a text based signature file doesn't mean the one I have is too large; it just may not be what you are used to seeing here.

And I fear you are being somewhat facetious by implying that I am seeking prestige and recognition for the signature, when it is perfectly clear for all readers of this thread to see that I was speaking of not needing the prestige associated with owning a SSD.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Well...you ARE the one that did say,
The truth is that I created a new signature file last night and just wanted to post something, anything, so people could see it.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

exploder wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:21 am
You could go out and buy the very best computer in the world today, and by tomorrow I could be telling you how you need to upgrade because there are better options already available. But, that would not be what someone wanted to hear because that isn't what they were asking for when they asked for advice on how to speed things up with the computer and hardware that they currently own.
There are tweak guides that a Google away for that. Your original question was,
Board index Chat Chat about Linux Mint

Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?


The answer is, yes in most cases. You get the most noticeable improvement! I am not talking synthetic benchmarks but improvements you can actually see. Tweaking the system will give very slight improvements but you will barely notice them. If I can take a 16 year old business class computer and make it noticeably fast by installing an SSD that says a lot!

The only real options if you stay with a HDD is using a lighter DE and tweaking things yourself. In the case of the laptop I gave my son, it has a fairly current quad core processor, 16 GB of RAM but it runs like a snail compared to the 16 year old desktop with an SSD. The laptop is an HP and I knew from past experience the plastic clips used on the touch pad and keyboard have a high chance of breaking taking it apart. It was deliberately made so the end user can't work on it. HP refuses to sell the end user these plastic clips also. It just wasn't worth messing with.

I do have all the tools to work on modern laptops. The clips become real brittle and even gluing the ribbon cables back on is next to impossible. If you own say an HP 15 laptop I would not advise taking it apart! I have had no issues with other manufacturer's like I have had with HP. In this case the advise to upgrade to an SSD is a bad idea!

In the end it's up to the individual on taking advice being given. You can take it or reject it, it's up to you. :)
Well, I guess I just don't understand. My desktop box is an ancient Dell XPS that is just 3 or 4 years short of being a whole decade old. Of course that is nowhere near as ancient as the business class computer you mention so things probably aren't exactly the same in that regard. But, for me personally, I just really can't think of anything that a SSD would improve other than maybe boot time.

Nemo opens and loads and displays all the files in any given folder before I can blink an eye. Sure, there is a small delay when first opening large programs like Gimp immediately after a restart but, once they reside in memory, I'm not sure how it or any other program could open any faster.

I can feel the mouse button coming up after being pushed and most programs are already open.

What exactly is faster with a SSD? Do games somehow perform better? Can websites load faster because you have a SSD? Would a program like Timeshift or LuckyBackup perform their tasks faster?
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by chiefjim »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:23 am
Or get yourself a SSD, or you need an SSD and need to trash the HDD because it was yesterday and the future is now?
I'd like to see more threads comparing the durability of SSD vs HDD. My personal experience with SSD is limited to NVMe PCIe M.2 used for root. That device didn't last one year. Granted one device may not be representative but that sure left a sour feeling for me.

Speed is nice but that only comes into play once the machine is up and running.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:04 am
Well...you ARE the one that did say,
The truth is that I created a new signature file last night and just wanted to post something, anything, so people could see it.
And how exactly does wanting posters to see it equal seeking prestige by using it, as you stated? I never particularly even wanted anyone to comment on it.
Last edited by Moem on Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed a quote. Make sure to always use a closing tag [/quote] after a quote.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by exploder »



Well, I guess I just don't understand. My desktop box is an ancient Dell XPS that is just 3 or 4 years short of being a whole decade old. Of course that is nowhere near as ancient as the business class computer you mention so things probably aren't exactly the same in that regard. But, for me personally, I just really can't think of anything that a SSD would improve other than maybe boot time.
Boot time is a few seconds, never actually timed it though. Application launch is almost instant, even things like LibreOffice. My son plays Minecraft and fairly modern first person shooters using Steam. I am not a gamer but he seems really happy!

If you are happy with the HDD's performance why mess with it? The age of the Dell you mention though could be a factor, spinning drives of that age are prone to failure. IF you should ever find yourself in the market for an SSD make sure an choose a good quality one. Most of mine are Samsung Evo's that have been in use for three years or so with no issue of any kind. I researched before buying anything.


My new laptop has Intel Optane, it's really fast but the mainboard supports it. Spinning drives are fading away, most new computers come with an SSD now unless it is new old stock. Dependability is very good now so long as you make an informed purchase. Your older Dell XPS is still a decent machine in my opinion and might be worth considering the upgrade. It's your choice.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

exploder wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:33 am


Well, I guess I just don't understand. My desktop box is an ancient Dell XPS that is just 3 or 4 years short of being a whole decade old. Of course that is nowhere near as ancient as the business class computer you mention so things probably aren't exactly the same in that regard. But, for me personally, I just really can't think of anything that a SSD would improve other than maybe boot time.
Boot time is a few seconds, never actually timed it though. Application launch is almost instant, even things like LibreOffice. My son plays Minecraft and fairly modern first person shooters using Steam. I am not a gamer but he seems really happy!

If you are happy with the HDD's performance why mess with it? The age of the Dell you mention though could be a factor, spinning drives of that age are prone to failure. IF you should ever find yourself in the market for an SSD make sure an choose a good quality one. Most of mine are Samsung Evo's that have been in use for three years or so with no issue of any kind. I researched before buying anything.


My new laptop has Intel Optane, it's really fast but the mainboard supports it. Spinning drives are fading away, most new computers come with an SSD now unless it is new old stock. Dependability is very good now so long as you make an informed purchase. Your older Dell XPS is still a decent machine in my opinion and might be worth considering the upgrade. It's your choice.
Thanks for the sincere and honest answers issuing from personal experience, Exploder. I appreciate it and will take your suggestions into consideration.
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by cliffcoggin »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 pm

Honestly, I don't really care about this subject that much at all, in the whole scheme of things. The truth is that I created a new signature file last night and just wanted to post something, anything, so people could see it. :oops:
So you admit to being a troll?
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Re: Should advice be to replace the harddrive with a SSD?

Post by exploder »



So you admit to being a troll?
Lol, I think he was kidding. :)
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