What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

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antikythera
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by antikythera »

Termy wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:25 pm
I feel like this bickering isn't really going to make the developers take notice.
Spot on with that, if they ever read this thread they will tune all this garbage about colours out. There are plenty of Mint-X and Mint-Y theme colours to choose from so nobody is forced to suffer a particular colour they hate.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Termy »

antikythera wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:33 pm
There are plenty of Mint-X and Mint-Y theme colours to choose from so nobody is forced to suffer a particular colour they hate.
My saying that, however, doesn't mean I think a new color should not be discussed, just that I think the way this thread has gone or is headed, is probably not the best approach. I think a poll would be a nice and simple approach for us to tell the team, in bulk, what we do or don't like.

I agree, of course, that it's easy to change colors and isn't a problem. However, there is ample competition out there, and I think there's no harm in tweaking Linux Mint's image in hopes of attracting more users.

:idea: Unfortunately, we're in the Linux Mint support forums, so we'll get a skewed result, in favor of course to how it is now, but it might at least give them a digestible result to go on, other than personal attacks between different users because of a color they do or don't like.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by absque fenestris »

As for Linux Mint, the developers are getting almost everything right. Please! The coloring in every Mint can easily be changed from green to blue, red or gray or whatever - in the system settings.
Just look at the system settings Themes ...
What I like less, specifically for Mint, is a visible coarsening of MATE - for my taste there is a lack of attention to detail, in contrast to Cinnamon.
I can't judge Xfce.

What I generally miss in all GNU/Linux systems:
  • 1. a simple image processing application à la Irfanview. More precisely, a program that would combine Irfanview, Faststone and ShiftN from the Windows side, as well as Macs Preview, LibreOffice's Draw and - from Mint's point of view, Pix - in a single, great and simple to use image processing program ...
  • 2. a Layout program à la PageMaker from 1996. Scribus is still lame and cumbersome - and in my opinion still very user-unfriendly. And yes - LibreOffice Writer just isn't a layout application ...
  • 3. a sensible, customizable font management. Fonts grouped in families. MacOS 7, 8, 9 in combination with Adobe ATM showed more than twenty years ago that something like this is possible. It now seems that this cannot be implemented in Linux, Windows or the more recent Mac systems. Nice progress!
    In addition, under Linux (also under Linux Mint) it would be necessary to clarify what should happen to PostScript Type 1 fonts in the future. Just turning it off and showing weird rectangles is a bit shabby.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by antikythera »

Termy wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:41 pm
antikythera wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:33 pm
There are plenty of Mint-X and Mint-Y theme colours to choose from so nobody is forced to suffer a particular colour they hate.
My saying that, however, doesn't mean I think a new color should not be discussed, just that I think the way this thread has gone or is headed, is probably not the best approach. I think a poll would be a nice and simple approach for us to tell the team, in bulk, what we do or don't like.

I agree, of course, that it's easy to change colors and isn't a problem. However, there is ample competition out there, and I think there's no harm in tweaking Linux Mint's image in hopes of attracting more users.

:idea: Unfortunately, we're in the Linux Mint support forums, so we'll get a skewed result, in favor of course to how it is now, but it might at least give them a digestible result to go on, other than personal attacks between different users because of a color they do or don't like.
The developers did listen about colour options. I think that's also partly why they simplified the logo so it could be made a monochrome outline (the current Menu icon default which of course looks better with different colour options than a green leaf shaped icon ever could), monochrome filled or full colour green filled. The choices are quite extensive nowadays which is a step very much in the right direction and not many other distributions offer this level of customisation for their own themes.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

antikythera wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:13 pm

The developers did listen about colour options. I think that's also partly why they simplified the logo so it could be made a monochrome outline (the current Menu icon default which of course looks better with different colour options than a green leaf shaped icon ever could), monochrome filled or full colour green filled. The choices are quite extensive nowadays which is a step very much in the right direction and not many other distributions offer this level of customisation for their own themes.
Yeah, and that simplification of the logo almost lead to the dissolution of Linux Mint. CleMINT and his team were practically torn asunder over the question of how and and to what extent the logo should be changed to "modernize" it.

After many months of agonizing indecision led to boiling temperatures and overheated discussion among the developers, Clem produced a confession letter in which I think he almost just quit the whole project and said to hell with it all. It seemed like he was almost done, to be honest. Developers were speaking out about not feeling appreciated and about how their ego's were delicate and they needed constant reassurance from everyone they knew and all Mint users to forge on with their almost overwhelming tasks that they slaved over every day.

And that was all over just trying to decide on how or if to change the logo. Maybe we really should just drop the color talk; it may be too much for many to digest and may have more serious ramifications than we could ever imagine.
Last edited by CtrlAltDel on Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:59 am
ZakGordon wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:13 am
For someone that hates green you sure 'love' to have it on your posts (your avatar and signature!). I just wanted to post to voice the exact opposite of your sentiment.

I love green, all things green. I even have green jeans and live as 'green' a life as i can. Green is the colour of life and health and represents mother-earth, without whom none of us would exist to even be able to enjoy this most fantastic version of Linux. Green is the best of everything in our living world, and i'm super happy and enthused it is a core design feature of Linux Mint, it is much more than just a colour.
It's your choice to appreciate green but, come on, you have to admit that it is not an attractive color in many ways. Green hair is ugly. Green shoes are ugly. Green jeans are really ugly. Gangrene, green being one of the many colors in the stages of rot, is ugly.

People's skin didn't evolve to be green because, well, green is just ugly. The worst type of food, vegetables, are likely green and many, many times taste really bad and even look ugly. Have you ever taken a good look at spinach? How could it be any uglier?

Boogers are green and they are both slimy and ugly. The ugliest part of a computer, the motherboard, is mostly always green. Have you ever seen a green dishwasher, a green cellphone, or a green dog? No, you probably haven't, because they are all ugly.

People aren't drawn to ugly; ugliness is phased out and driven away because it is not pleasing. Let's change the color of Linux Mint to a pretty color, like blue. Mint KDE blue but without the KDE.

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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by antikythera »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:34 pm
Clem produced a confession letter in which I think he almost just quit the whole project and said to hell with it all. It seemed like he was almost done, to be honest.
That doesn't really surprise me either but I'm very glad he didn't quit.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Termy »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:34 pm
And that was all over just trying to decide on how or if to change the logo. Maybe we really should just drop the color talk; it may be too much for many to digest and may have more serious ramifications than we could ever imagine.
Wow. Fair enough. :o I certainly don't blame them, but that said, Linux Mint is very well known, is a great project, has led to great things, and is used by a great many, so I hope they don't feel like it's all just a waste of time. It sounds like Clem and some other might need a break. :?
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

Termy wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:57 pm
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:34 pm
And that was all over just trying to decide on how or if to change the logo. Maybe we really should just drop the color talk; it may be too much for many to digest and may have more serious ramifications than we could ever imagine.
Wow. Fair enough. :o I certainly don't blame them, but that said, Linux Mint is very well known, is a great project, has led to great things, and is used by a great many, so I hope they don't feel like it's all just a waste of time. It sounds like Clem and some other might need a break. :?

When it all happened, it was sort of a surprise to many regular users. Who would have thought with people as talented and gifted as the ones who create and maintain Mint that deliberations on how to proceed with a website redesign and a logo update could lead to a state of seeming collapse?

One would think that two issues seemingly so simple as that could be done, almost literally, in their sleep. Yet it caused a myriad of confusion, feelings of inadequacy, and frustration levels high enough among developers and Clem, to prompt him to direct an open letter to the Mint community about it.

It took many people by surprise as it was a highly unusual blog post, of the kind that are usually internal memos and not available for public consumption. I remember thinking to myself, dude, just forget about the website design and logo if it is going to make everyone have a nervous breakdown and possibly be the end of Linux Mint, just forget it.

Anyway, if you want to read more about it, here is the blog entry:

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3736

and here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... 88e8722c13

is one of many, many, many responses to it from all across the Internet.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Termy »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:10 pm
...
Thank you!
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Lert »

Kermit knew best when he said "Its keen to be green"
You may ask why the French eat snails.. It's because they don't like fast food..
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Pierre »

well - - we've basically decided, that the LinuxMint is best in Green.
:)

most other Linux.Forums have also settled on some particular colour scheme, as well.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by JosephM »

When it all happened, it was sort of a surprise to many regular users. Who would have thought with people as talented and gifted as the ones who create and maintain Mint that deliberations on how to proceed with a website redesign and a logo update could lead to a state of seeming collapse?
You are overstating the importance of that one particular thing. A lot of things happened internally that dev cycle and a couple long time devs had things going on in their personal lives that kept them away. These sorts of things probably happen in dev groups from time to time. It probably just doesn't get shared all that often.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by ZakGordon »

Termy wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:25 pm
Maybe somebody should just set up a poll, then be done with this, because I feel like this bickering isn't really going to make the developers take notice.
Knock yourselves out ;)

It's been discussed many times before, and Clem has answered in detail. It's called Linux 'Mint' for a reason, and the default theme is green for a reason. I suggest you live with it or change it to what you probably already use as colour preferences.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Moem »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:10 pm
Who would have thought with people as talented and gifted as the ones who create and maintain Mint that deliberations on how to proceed with a website redesign and a logo update could lead to a state of seeming collapse?
This regular user didn't read it as dramatic as all that. I read it as 'We're not having a good time right now, and that's a reason to think about what we're doing here, why we're doing it and how we're doing it'. It may not be normal or expected to share those thoughts, but it sure as hell is normal to be having them now and then during an ongoing project. I admire Clem for being so open about it.

On preview, JosephM seems to confirm my reading.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by ZakGordon »

Well it IS so 'first world' problems. "I don't like the default mint green theme", or "the website looks old fashioned" (but at least it functions pretty well heh?). I totally get the frustration the devs would naturally have when people focus on such trite issues with a project they get to use for free. It must be dispiriting. Like i'm sure the choice of Linux Mint name and colour was not just a 5 min exercise on a back of a beer mat. It has been designed this way for a specific reason, and frankly as a free OS you have very little right to question the creators choices here, and then demand change.

If you don't like it, change it. Mint is pretty customizable, use those inbuilt (for free to you) tools to change it. Or just use another distro that does not damage your first-world entitled sensibilities? Most Linux OS is free, so find a none green one if it offends you that much? But don't come here and disrespect the long work and effort of the developers of one of the best Linux Distro's around for your puerile reasons perhaps?

Same goes for the website. It is a growing rare thing in today's 'popular' website re-design rush (just because we all want to look like the god awful Windows 8/10 OS GUI design!) to actually have a website that is functional to use and traditional enough that all people of all ages can use it for what a website should be about, disseminating information.

I just have no time for this type of whingeing or those pushing them, especially as if you really hate green you can change the theme on your end, so just do that. This is less an issue with the OS and more an issue with the user imho. I need not add more.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

ZakGordon wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:25 am
Well it IS so 'first world' problems. "I don't like the default mint green theme", or "the website looks old fashioned" (but at least it functions pretty well heh?). I totally get the frustration the devs would naturally have when people focus on such trite issues with a project they get to use for free. It must be dispiriting. Like i'm sure the choice of Linux Mint name and colour was not just a 5 min exercise on a back of a beer mat. It has been designed this way for a specific reason, and frankly as a free OS you have very little right to question the creators choices here, and then demand change.
Have you lost your mind? Anyone here has every right to question anything they wish.

If you don't like it, change it. Mint is pretty customizable, use those inbuilt (for free to you) tools to change it. Or just use another distro that does not damage your first-world entitled sensibilities? Most Linux OS is free, so find a none green one if it offends you that much? But don't come here and disrespect the long work and effort of the developers of one of the best Linux Distro's around for your puerile reasons perhaps?
Why don't you quite trying to dictate the participation rules of this thread. I don't like being camp directed. I'll say what I wish about what I don't like and, conversely, about what I do like. You must not have a lot of interactions with adults in your real life.
Same goes for the website. It is a growing rare thing in today's 'popular' website re-design rush (just because we all want to look like the god awful Windows 8/10 OS GUI design!) to actually have a website that is functional to use and traditional enough that all people of all ages can use it for what a website should be about, disseminating information.

I just have no time for this type of whingeing or those pushing them, especially as if you really hate green you can change the theme on your end, so just do that. This is less an issue with the OS and more an issue with the user imho. I need not add more.

What? What are you talking about? The title of the post was "What DON'T you like about Linux Mint; do you know what that means? I don't like the color green that is the default colorization of both the Mint Logo and the Mint website. I can't change any one of those, as you suggest that I can.

I'm sorry my dislike of the color green has irritated you and made you feel as if perhaps I just shouldn't use Mint because of that. I'm sorry I live in a country that has plentiful food, electricity, and clean water and it gives me an unfair advantage that wasn't earned and allows me to think of trivial things like what I don't like about a free operating system.

My disgusting privilege has apparently blinded me to the fact that poor people exist in the world who would love to have the color green as the color code for their OS if they only had a home or shoes or automobiles.

Now, if you want to get personal, I can accommodate you. As it is, you have no reason to come into this thread pouting and acting sanctimonious towards me, personally, saying you just have no time for those whining and posturing, etc...

Don't tell me what to say or how to say it. If I insult someone, you will know it. As it stands, I mentioned a blog post that the creator of this version of Linux made and commented on it and elucidated on how his post was made out of frustration over infighting among developers about how to redesign the Mint logo.

You have overreacted out of a white knight zeal to protect Mint from someone you truly believe is going to crush the whole OS because I said I don't like the color green. Save the over-protective act for the psychologist; it wasn't required in this thread at all.
Last edited by CtrlAltDel on Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by CtrlAltDel »

Pierre wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:39 pm
well - - we've basically decided, that the LinuxMint is best in Green.
:)

most other Linux.Forums have also settled on some particular colour scheme, as well.

Is this for real, Pierre? Is this really happening? I'm not sure what is going on. I thought this was just an easy-going, sharing information, talking with each other thread on a message board. Is this a developer's forum; did I miss something?

Is my opinion about the color green, made halfway in jest, shaking the foundations of future development of Linux Mint? If this is an official submission thread that is going to be forwarded for urgent and immediate consideration to the developers of Linux, which I understand you are one of, I hereby retract my statements about the color green.

Please erase my, what I thought were sort of funny comments about the color green. If the horrible and detestable fashion in which I have unfairly and viciously bullied the aforementioned green color is on the official Mint Record, I demand a chance to retract my statements as I didn't realize they were made under oath.

Seriously, man, I don't care one way or the other about what color Linux Mint chooses to use. Sure, I would like the logo and website not to be green but it isn't something I think about a whole lot.
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Pierre »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:48 am
Seriously, man, I don't care one way or the other about what color Linux Mint chooses to use. Sure, I would like the logo and website not to be green but it isn't something I think about a whole lot.
Umm .. WE as in the Forum Users
:mrgreen:

not by anyone else.
:lol:
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Re: What Don't You Like about Linux Mint?

Post by Pepi »

I really wish that we could have a Mint version (Flagship) like Mint 18.3 supported for more years. Mint 18.3 is the best OS I've ever used and runs PERFECT on my older computers. I'm in the middle of updating my 6 years old HP Eng workstation with Mint 19.3 and I can't say a lot about it. Can't get FireJail to work, Can update the Nivida card without crashing my video. Thank God for Timeshift and the command line. I would imagine my older PC doesn't like the 5.4.0-56-generic x86_64 kernel :(

Code: Select all

System:
  Host: pepi-HP-Z600-Workstation Kernel: 5.4.0-56-generic x86_64 bits: 64 
  Desktop: Cinnamon 4.4.8 Distro: Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia 
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Z600 Workstation v: N/A 
  serial: <root required> 
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 0AE8h v: C serial: <root required> 
  BIOS: Hewlett-Packard v: 786G4 v03.21 date: 08/24/2011 
CPU:
  Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Xeon E5540 bits: 64 type: MCP L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
  Speed: 1597 MHz min/max: 1596/2528 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1629 2: 1615 3: 1596 
  4: 1596 
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA G94GL [Quadro FX 1800] driver: nouveau v: kernel 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
  resolution: 1680x1050~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: NV94 v: 3.3 Mesa 20.0.8 
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 82801JI HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-56-generic 
Network:
  Device-1: Broadcom and subsidiaries NetXtreme BCM5764M Gigabit Ethernet PCIe 
  driver: tg3 
  IF: enp1s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 78:e7:d1:c5:e3:4f 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 2.29 TiB used: 321.60 GiB (13.7%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST500DM002-1BD142 size: 465.76 GiB 
  ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST3500418AS size: 465.76 GiB 
  ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Samsung model: SSD 840 PRO Series size: 238.47 GiB 
  ID-4: /dev/sdd vendor: Samsung model: SSD 850 PRO 256GB size: 238.47 GiB 
  ID-5: /dev/sde type: USB vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 QVO 1TB size: 931.51 GiB 
RAID:
  Hardware-1: Intel SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 200.86 GiB used: 39.88 GiB (19.9%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sde3 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 39.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 53 C 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Info:
  Processes: 230 Uptime: 15h 54m Memory: 5.78 GiB used: 1.52 GiB (26.3%) Shell: bash 
  inxi: 3.0.32 
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