Mint Cinnamon 21 - the most buggy release in the Linux Mint history?

[User-007]

I just tried to upgrade my rock-solid Mint (Cinnamon) 20.3 to 21.
I had so many problems that I was forced to revert back to 20.3.

Buggy behavior:
-Pulseaudio stopped working. I have surround setup via S/PDIF. Had to force stereo setup in order to get audio working at all.
-I have two vertical panels in my desktop. Both the panels were very buggy after upgrade. For example, when tried to modify the panels (for example icons orientation), some of the tray icons grew about to double-size. The position of icons was not stable, either.
-I have a xrandr script to switch off my second display at startup. This command caused desktop scaling of 200%.
-Other minor glitches.

It’s worth to notice that I have used Mint since 17 and I have not faced any major issues within upgrades before.

Seems that this version has been pushed out with too much hurry. My decision is easy to stick with 20.3.

[deepakdeshp]

The instructions to upgrade from 20.3 to 21 are not out on the Mint blog.

[all41]

My decision is easy to stick with 20.3

Wise decision. The packages are not final until announced as such.
Try again with the provided upgrade procedure after that happens.

[151tom]

Tuition for the price of an education.

[User-007]

My decision is easy to stick with 20.3

The packages are not final until announced as such.

The packages are final, the 21 has already been published.

Agree, that the official upgrade instructions doesn’t exist yet. But I really doubt my problems are due to ”unofficial upgrade procedure”.

[Moem]

I really doubt my problems are not due to ”unofficial upgrade procedure”.

We can't know. How did you upgrade?

[User-007]

I really doubt my problems are not due to ”unofficial upgrade procedure”.

We can't know. How did you upgrade?

I don’t want to give exact methods since Mint doesn’t want to give them yet. But let’s say that I upgraded with methods ”to be officially published”.

[Moem]

Mysterious! Makes one wonder how you gained access to these methods.
In any case, if you don't want to discuss it, we can't see whether you maybe did something wrong.

[Pjotr]

I really doubt my problems are due to ”unofficial upgrade procedure”.

That, or PEBKAC. Or both. My guess is: both.

[User-007]

Mysterious! Makes one wonder how you gained access to these methods.
In any case, if you don't want to discuss it, we can't see whether you maybe did something wrong.

I will give the methods immediately they’ve officially published.

[Cosmo.]

Agree, that the official upgrade instructions doesn’t exist yet. But I really doubt my problems are due to ”unofficial upgrade procedure”.

You can doubt, as long as you want and possibly (!!!) you are right. But what you are trying here is to make a final judgement about the result of something, what is not yet completely released (the upgrade tool). And this judgement without a proper information is wrong.

Consider also the possibility, that until the official release the devs have the possibility to exchange the download file in case the find a last minute mistake. So you are simply too early.

[Pjotr]

It's rather annoying.... Here we have a team of people who have worked hard (with success) to create a fine new Mint 21 release.

And then we also have someone creating an "unofficially upgraded" messy Frankenstein Mint 21 monstrosity, which (predictably) stinks in the nostrils of civilized man. After which that someone has the bloody nerve to blame his misfortune on Mint itself.

[User-007]

Linux Mint community is considered as a friendly community. I expected some more polite discussion rather than attacking against me personally.

Again, the 21 has been published. ”Official instructions” include only updated upgrade tool, the packages are still the same and from the same sources, right? They have to be, because the repositories equal with the official release.

So, we discuss about the upgrade tool. What I really doubt is that the tool would have a) broken my pulseaudio without option to fix the things b) messed my display settings c) given me buggy panels.

C is possible, I agree and enhanced tool would probably fix the things. B is plausible, but unlikely. C is not, mark my words. Upgrade tool with possible updates has nothing to do with this.

[Dan-cer]

I perceive that some here on the forum are arguing a bit nervously. For whatever reason. That's just in passing.

The most buggy version in Linux Mint history? Can you judge that? Just in the early days, Mint was more buggy on my PC than Ubuntu! That's why I initially went back to Ubuntu back then. Later, Mint gradually got better and better and eventually overtook Ubuntu in terms of stability and handling.

With every release, no matter which operating system, there are error messages, and they are clustered. This sometimes gives the impression that the system is very buggy, but to judge that, one would need to know in how many cases it works bug-free for the user.

Especially people who have been using Linux Mint (or any other system) for a long time have adapted it to their needs. Even with programs from foreign package sources. When upgrading, this can inevitably lead to jerks. The same is true for browsers. It is not uncommon for browser extensions and hacks to cause problems.

What about your hardware, for example? Pulseaudio problems are sometimes linked to certain hardware or drivers.

I have done 2 upgrades successfully without any problems. One by installing Live-USB, the other on an older notebook by using the "mintupgrade" tool. My main machine still keeps 20.3. Why? Because for me there are no significant improvements in LM 21 that justify an upgrade. I like 20.3, the other two machines are good for testing.

[antikythera]

Did you at least read the release notes for Mint 21 and Ubuntu 22.04 before proceeding? Major components have been changed upstream including pulseaudio to version 16 and the introduction of pipewire as audio backend. Metacity support across all GTK desktop environments has been dropped, so third-party themes that use it still will not work with Mint 21. Muffin has also been rebased to the latest build of mutter as far as Cinnamon Desktop is concerned.

Not an argument, just a bit of clarification over some of those issues.

[rossdv8]

I've only been using Mint since 'Cassandra' which was around 2007 or so.

I have had a few instances where upgrading immediately a new release dropped caused things to break. Mostly it was due to my system.
I used to upgrade to the latest as soon as I could - just to see if anything broke. Currently on my Mint Xfce 20.3, some of my machines work perfectly, and one, with an iNtel board, has had PulseAudio glitch ever since the upgrade (using Update manager). That's just the way it goes sometimes, and the Mint team works hard to try to get as many of the bugs that were missed in beta testing ironed out before posting Upgrade Instructions or automating them in Update Manager.

I'm an 'old Mint user' (in all ways) and I ran Mint 21 from USB stick - then decided to wait until the team irons out any wrinkles before i upgrade.
While there's nothing 'wrong' with upgrading before all the testing has been done, doing that means YOU wear any consequences.

If you have done a 'clean install', deleting your old mint 20.3 and installing Mint 21 fresh into your system, and it it still full of bugs - you might have good reason to report exactly what bugs you are referring to (along with an inxi report on your system).
However, upgrading Mint 20.3 to Mint 21 BEFORE it has been as carefully tested as possible for upgrading, is not very bright.

The Mint Team will announce when they think Mint 21 is ready for an upgrade path form 20.3. Even then, they can't test every variable.

Until then, it's probably wise do the sensible thing and completely delete Mint 20.3 and install from scratch.

[HappyHippo]

In my honest opinion you can only judge a linux version if you use a clean install. And have some minor Linux knowledge.
Doing a upgrade comes with some risks, and how many times before is the system allready upgraded?
I think it would be better to learn to partition and create a system that is renewable at any moment without dataloss.

Clean installs are recommended anyway.

[User-007]

@Dan-cer @antikythera Thank you for polite discussion.

I have not read the release notes of Ubuntu 22.04. The issues you mention can be the source of at least a part of my problems.

To avoid irritating some people in the forum, I will post my hw info just after the ”official announcement of upgrade tool”.

I have not argued that 21 would be the most buggy release - there is a question mark in the headline. I advice everyone else to not become irritated of some headlines - they are usually just written to attract people to read the topic.

[Moem]

I have not argued that 21 would be the most buggy release - there is a question mark in the headline.

https://thelogicofscience.com/2020/05/3 ... questions/

I advice everyone else to not become irritated of some headlines - they are usually just written to attract people to read the topic.

Ah, you wrote it as clickbait. Well, looks like it worked. I advise everyone to not become irritated if they use a trick to attract attention and it works.

[dorsetUK]

Hi user-007

I don’t think the headline is the problem.

Seems that this version has been pushed out with too much hurry. My decision is easy to stick with 20.3.

I think that may be though.

One thing that puzzles me is;

'To avoid irritating some people in the forum, I will post my hw info just after the ”official announcement of upgrade tool”.'

I wonder if ‘just after’ is also likely to annoy people?

Just generally – when there’s a major release of just about any new operating system then there will be what some users consider to be ‘missing’ features. Some features that some users consider to ‘make things worse’, and of course, the vast majority who test the live version to ensure that all works, or workarounds can be found, and expect there to be a bit of a learning curve.

Personally, my live test was absolutely fine, but I haven’t installed because I’m about to put a new SSD in my computer. When I’ve done that I’ll do a fresh install of 21 – and so long as everything works properly – then I’ll update my current 20.3 via the update manager. If all works – great. Then I’ll wipe and format the disc for data storage. If it doesn’t work, then nothing lost, because I’m going to wipe it anyway.