Let's Keep Mint Julia? on GNOME 2.x

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Lumenary
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Re: Let's Keep Mint Julia? on GNOME 2.x

Post by Lumenary »

Hello Everyone,


Midnighter wrote:personally, I'm not a fan of what appears to be a "complete" change in the way Gnome works. It seems to be changing for the sake of changing. Most of this is unnecessary. Where has it been asked for all this change? Over the top in my opinion.
Agreed...


I also was not under the impression that the GNOME user experience was "broken" and needed to be changed. In fact, I switched to GNOME from KDE because of its simplicity and because of the ease with which it integrated well with other technologies (especially Compiz-Fusion).


I can understand that GNOME's underpinnings - the core technical components like Bonobo, GVFS, Pango, etc. - need a lot of rework and streamlining, like the way KDE did by coming out with Phonon, Plasma, and Solid:
Basically, what the KDE organisation did was say, "OK, we can categorise the facilities provided by a modern desktop environment into three areas: Desktop Layout/Rendering, Device Discovery/Control/Input-Output, and Media Management." They then set about cataloging all of the technologies that had worked their way into KDE over the years, determining what functionality each provided, then developed three core frameworks which exposee these functions to the KDE desktop and compliant applications in a standard, consistent way. This allows KDE applications to be constructed out of stable, reusable components - with "stable" being a somewhat relative term at the moment - while allowing for very tight and flexible integration between each other and the desktop. It was a very ambitious project, and broke a lot of pre-existing software that depended on the old APIs, but was (and is) probably necessary for the long run. (And some frameworks, like Decibel, aren't finished yet, and are in fact still in the "prototype" stage...)


This is something that the GNOME desktop environment sorely needs, and the GNOME organisation's response is GNOME 3. The driving forces behind GNOME 3 and Gnome Shell are legitimate and well-established. The GNOME desktop infrastructure has grown out of control and is relying on many different external components, some of which are not well-maintained, or don't follow FreeDesktop.org standards, or are not modular enough to painlessly integrate with new technologies.


However, reworking the GNOME desktop environment's underlying technology shouldn't have to result in changing the "user experience" for change's sake. In my mind, Gnome Shell is a perfect example of "just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it."



Best Regards,

Lumenary
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linuxviolin
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Re: Let's Keep Mint Julia? on GNOME 2.x

Post by linuxviolin »

With Gnome you have a release every 6 months. And the "silly" developers, when a version is released, stop its development and don't maintain it! They prefer to change everything in the new version and adding more bugs.... Like I said: "the development and the maintenance are barely decent. Hundreds of unfixed bugs since ages, even for simple software like Gedit!" (to talk just about it)

It's very unfortunate because Gnome 2 was the better desktop, although release after release it became worse...

For some maintenance, maybe the only solution is to use Red Hat, or one of its clones. You obtain many years of support, even for the old versions. Of course, you must accept e.g. an older version of the apps: in CentOS 5.4, you have GNOME 2.16.0 The kernel, even if it is older by its version number (currently 2.6.18-164.11.1.el5), is very patched for support to more recent hardware (Red Hat is a big and recognized enterprise in the Linux world with many developpers, they make many hard work...) so it runs quite well even on a recent PC (for instance, my one-year Quad core and its Nvidia video card, Flash cards reader, DVD... works quite well) And you have maintenance, support... even for the old versions: "Each CentOS version is supported for 7 years (by means of security updates). A new CentOS version is released every 2 years and each CentOS version is regularly updated (every 6 months) to support newer hardware. This results in a secure, low-maintenance, reliable, predictable and reproducible environment."

It "is more about stability and long-term support than cutting edge. Major package versions are retained throughout the life cycle of the product (...) a stable base on which to develop without fear that bespoke applications will break every time something gets upgraded to the latest and greatest, but ultimately buggy version or the API changes breaking backwards compatibility. (...) Security patches and bug fixes are backported into the shipped version"

But RH is not really the subject here and this is not the absolute solution, the panacea... see my first post in this topic for instance (and maybe not the "fun" the users seek using Ubuntu and like) Just if someone wants more information about the RH clones, you can read here
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
Lumenary
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Re: Let's Keep Mint Julia? on GNOME 2.x

Post by Lumenary »

Howdy...



I just took another look at the GNOME Shell page at the GNOME Live! site:
and my eyes happened to land on this paragraph:
Having this JHBuild setup will not affect your main system, so there is no need to run the GNOME Shell inside a virtual machine. To run the GNOME Shell inside a virtual machine would require good 3D support, and we don't know of any virtualization system that can handle it. In particular, problems have been reported with the GNOME Shell and the 3D support in VirtualBox.
So now it looks like running a GnomeShell-based desktop in a virtual machine for completely isolated testing, development, etc. will not be a viable option.


This can be a major issue for many of us in the greater Linux Desktop community, since using a virtualization platform like VMware Workstation/Server/Player, VirtualBox, or even Linux-KVM is a time-honored method used by Linux enthusiasts to test out new distros. I, for one, like to be able to test-drive new offerings to a certain depth before deciding to wipe the current OS from my system's drives and replace it with something else...


**sigh**



Best Regards,

Lumenary
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