Gnome3

Chat about anything related to Linux Mint
ginjabunny
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by ginjabunny »

I downloaded the Gnome 3 live USB (the Fedora based one) last week to have a look and see what all the fuss was about. I must admit it does look slick and fairly polished, an interesting design and layout, I'm not sure how good it would be to use on a daily basis without trying it. Something I did notice is that unlike Gnome 2 it doesn't seem very customisable, I couldn't figure out if what you see is what you get or are there ways of tweaking it?

I think Mint should stay with the current style of desktop for now and, if possible, make the new shell an option, maybe it could be chosen at the login screen?

I wonder what Clem has in the pipeline?

GB

Additional: I think this review sums it up quite nicely -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/11/gnome_3_review/
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Dr.m0x
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by Dr.m0x »

Changing the fundamental way in which users interact with the desktop is dumb. Some of us have been using gui desktops since the late 80's and are too stuck in our ways to change. It's akin to the dvorak keyboard - sure it's nice in theory but qwerty is everywhere and it's what every one is used to. Any normal person forced to use dvorak will curse and swear within minutes about the keys being in the wrong place and gnome shell will cause the same reactions. It isn't the way forward for the linux desktop - it will turn any potential new convert who has used windows (99.99% of the planet) off because it's too different.

I know unity isn't gnome shell but they both use accelerated graphics. I tried natty beta and all I got was an empty desktop without any menus or any easy way to do anything off the bat. Being experienced I simply booted to the command line and installed the nvidia drivers I needed but the new user will just scratch their head, declare linux to be broken, crappy, or too hard and move on. If they don't fix that before release ubuntu could become a liability to the community instead of an asset.

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monkeyboy
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by monkeyboy »

Changing the fundamental way in which users interact with the desktop is dumb. Some of us have been using CLI since the late 60's and are too stuck in our ways to change. The Times They Are A-changin. :D
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

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kc1di
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by kc1di »

Hi all enjoying the comment on Gnome3,
I gave it a try and at first the glitz is nice I do not care for the applications search and have gone to xfce on my laptop and kde4 on my desktop for the moment.
Don't care for ubuntu's unity either to me I don't see the advantages.

KDE since 4.6 has been very stable here and I'm an old xfce user from way back
Mint LMDE xfce seems to be the way I'll go for now.
though could not get it to install on my old legacy machine.
While debian works great on that machine. don't know why LMDE xfce would not install. just wouldn't.

Will be listening with interest to this thread.
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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by linuxviolin »

craig10x wrote:The only thing i didn't like in gnome was the two panels and the menu layout...with Mint that is automatically fixed for me since mint menu and the control center is great and Mint only has the bottom panel which i prefer...
This setup is however the best setup of all... :roll: And personally I hate the Mint Menu, I have always preferred the GNOME 2 default menu. Just my opinion. :!:
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Meteor
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by Meteor »

Fascinating discussion! I've really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts about the forthcoming Gnome 3. Personally, I haven't even looked at it and am a touch confused at what those at Gnome are doing or trying to do. This will be an interesting concept. However, I feel I will wait for a couple of years for Gnome to become steady, functional.

I'm currently using the Debian edition of Xfce. I had used the Gnome versions of Mint since about "6" so feel that I'm very use to Gnome. Xfce is a bit of change, Debian somewhat more but almost everything works. The odd quirk is something I probably need to figure out.

I've tried KDE -- it was part of the first Linux OS I installed. It worked well for the time I used it. When moving to Mint, Gnome "felt" better for me so I stayed with it. With Gnome 3 on the horizon, will we experience another two or so years of very regular decimal point updates as with KDE? Probably...

I'm waiting for Xfce 4.8. I'm more curious about how it hopefully improves Xfce. Guess it's time to check the repos and see if it is available...

KDE 4 dot wherever is current today hasn't done anything for me, nor has the very dark screens of Mint KDE. My laptop screen and my eyes object to very dark screens. Even the "default" Xfce desktop has been changed to a lovely mountain backdrop -- I live near the mountains in Western Canada, eh...

Gnome 3, probably not on my system.

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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by linuxviolin »

Meteor wrote:I'm waiting for Xfce 4.8. I'm more curious about how it hopefully improves Xfce. Guess it's time to check the repos and see if it is available...
If you want testing XFCE 4.8 you could try Fedora 15 XFCE Spin for instance, it uses XFCE 4.8... Just a hint. :wink:
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
RedLeg
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by RedLeg »

I'm really hoping that Gnome 3 will be as customizable as the previous release. I'm not a big fan of docks, buy I have always set up Mint to have two panels and make it feel more more ubuntu-like. There's a lot of changes and debate going on in the larger Linux community and it is nice to know that the Mint developers seem to be more in tune with what it's "customers" want. I understand that there are those who want to be innovative about how we use the desktop, but I think Gnome and especially ubuntu have become more agenda driven and wish to take computing in a particular direction.

When I hear that Mint will be using Gnome 3 without Shell, I feel that they are more in tune with the "marketplace of ideas" and provide more choice without stepping on the toes of the innovators or the community's preferences.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by sespela »

Dr.m0x wrote: It isn't the way forward for the linux desktop - it will turn any potential new convert who has used windows (99.99% of the planet) off because it's too different.
Yet, more and more Windows users are changing to Mac. I think a fancy look will attract a lot of people and eventually convert them.
But that's just what my opinion, based on what I was looking for when I first tried Linux less then a year ago.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by kvv »

ShyGuy wrote:There are things that look good abotu Gnome 3, but I will have to spend time with it to know for sure.

Like the lack of minimize maximize buttons on the menu bar. It looks good and makes sense, but then I realized that dragging windows using a laptop touchpad isn't the most comfortable thing.
Hi, you can re-enable maximize and minimize buttons by editing gconf-editor. Do: Alt-F2 -> Type "gconf-editor" -> Go to desktop > gnome > shell > windows -> Edit the value in "button layout" from ":close" to ":minimize,maximize,close".
Log out and log in again, it should be fine.
(Edited: I don't think you need a gksudo)

What really pisses me off about both gnome-shell and unity is the lack of a task manager.
Last edited by kvv on Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by proxima_centauri »

kvv wrote:What really pisses me off about both gnome-shell and unity is the lack of a task manager.
What do you mean by "task manager". Not speaking about GNOME3, but Ubuntu 11.04 uses GNOME 2.32 and still has System Monitor.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by kvv »

I meant the window switcher applet in gnome 2. I haven't seen it in any of the unity videos or images so I assumed it was not possible to get it. It's definitely not there in gnome3, and I don't like finger gymnastics (alt-shift-tab click or something) when I have to constantly keep switching. I am really used to simply clicking on the window on the gnome panel, and I don't see any reason why that had to be changed.
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pluraldave
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by pluraldave »

kvv wrote: I am really used to simply clicking on the window on the gnome panel, and I don't see any reason why that had to be changed.
This is the issue with the switch from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3. People don't like change and want things the way they are used to. Any (ex)Windows user who comes onto this, or any other Linux forum complaining that something is different in Linux to how it is in Windows immediately gets told:
Linux isn't Windows and that just because you are used to something working in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best way for that thing to work.
Now we have Linux users complaining that Gnome 3 is different to Gnome 2. Guess what I'm going to say?
Gnome 3 isn't Gnome 2 and that just because you are used to something working in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best way for that thing to work.
The worst part is that most of the complaints are based solely on viewing a screenshot or video. If you're lucky the user might now have given a LiveCD a spin for 5 minutes before coming to the conclusion that it is different to what they're used to and therefore they don't like it. Far too few users have actually installed Gnome-Shell (because that's what everyone is really talking about) and given it the time required for a fair appraisal.

When I first saw a picture/mockup of Gnome-Shell I couldn't see where they were coming from. When I read the objectives they were trying to achieve I thought it was the biggest load of rubbish I'd ever heard in comparison to what they had produced. But I decided to install it anyway and force myself to use it for a certain period of time. However many months down the line we are now I'm completely sold.

Switching applications by flicking my mouse up to the top left and clicking a large image now feels so much quicker and more efficient than using a panel or dock based switcher. Switching back to the old Gnome 2 setup makes everything seem slow and clunky in comparison. Switching apps from the panel applet even feels more difficult and seems to require more concentration and I cannot wait to get back to the shell environment.

Finally, one of the Gnome team's statements was that removing a visible list of running applications removes distraction, makes users unnecessarily switch between apps less often and therefore increases productivity (or words to that effect). That sounded ludicrous until I got to the end of a large text document one day and realised I'd got it finished a lot quicker than I usually would have.

So to answer the original question, why have they removed panel switching? Because it really is better without (in my experience).
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by AlbertP »

'Better' is different for each user. I prefer a panel, after having used Gnome Shell (the Fedora Live CD on USB) for some hours. Besides from the stability (the Shell crashed 3 times), I lost the overview and had to look for a minute at my 6 open windows to know which one to click, as the view changes every time when opening a window.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by ShyGuy »

Everyone uses their computer differently. I've been a computer tech working with the public for 15 years. One thing I've noticed is 99% of computer users run all their applications maximized. Desktop widgets that get covered up and even windowing applications have little benefit for them.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by kvv »

Linux isn't Windows and that just because you are used to something working in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best way for that thing to work.
I agree. But, Gnome2 was better than windows because of its great support for virtual desktops. I would like to argue that windows is better than gnome3 because it has okay support for virtual desktops (virtuawin), a better overview of the applications running, windows tiling and cascading and a simpler way of switching between applications. That argument you said is bullshit, because Gnome Shell and Unity don't have some basic features I need. Gnome2 and Windows are awesome in their own way for this kinda work, and I would probably switch to Windows if the software I need ran fine on it.
Finally, one of the Gnome team's statements was that removing a visible list of running applications removes distraction, makes users unnecessarily switch between apps less often and therefore increases productivity (or words to that effect). That sounded ludicrous until I got to the end of a large text document one day and realised I'd got it finished a lot quicker than I usually would have.

So to answer the original question, why have they removed panel switching? Because it really is better without (in my experience).
Cool for you. But for me, I sometimes have to work with 10 text files, 3 - 4 terminals, 10 - 20 tabs sometimes in separate browsers for easier grouping + 1 or 2 GUI softwares. Of course, I can do it in Unity, but it feels like a very bad headache.

Oh just wanted to add, Gnome 2 gave the flexibility to tailor your environment for one text file and 20 txt file jobs. In unity/gnome3, they effectively say that you should work with only one text file, and "20 txt files is bad for you mmkay? dont do 20 txt files mmkay?" (+1 to you if you got the reference :D)

Note: Unity and Gnome shell are equivalent as far as I am concerned. They are dumbed-down desktops which deliberately lack features and tell you how you should do your work.
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by pluraldave »

kvv wrote: Gnome2 was better than windows because of its great support for virtual desktops. I would like to argue that windows is better than gnome3 because it has okay support for virtual desktops (virtuawin)
You have to be joking. One of, if not the defining feature of Gnome-shell is workspace management. You have actually used (a recent version of) Gnome-shell, right?
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Re: Gnome 3

Post by kvv »

No, you understood me wrongly. I never implied windows has better workspace management. I meant that windows has passable support for virtual desktops through virtuawin, while having better window management, which put together is better than what gnome3 offers.

Tbh, I really like the rest of gnome shell and unity, they have potential. If they only provide some way of handling multiple windows easily, I will have no qualms about using them.
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Gnome3

Post by allypink »

Hello all.
Been playing with the live isos of gnome3 of late. Have tried ubuntu 11.04 and unity....... in three words... don't like it. Rather the original gnome3 any day; even with it's short-comings at the mo.
But what gives with nouveau? On the Fedora 15 version supplied by gnome from their website........ works perfectly. (shame you can't install from it.)
On the Suse version and Fedora's own version from their website; Suse won't work unless 'nomodeset' is invoked in the boot paras and Fedora won't work at all. When Suse boots up it's the standard gnome 'cause it doesn't have 3d support running vesa.
This nouveau is the pits. I mean every body I know loads the propriety driver at the first opportunity.

Rock on Mint.......... and by the by Clem..... don't mind the Gnome3 Shell at all. :P

You are now editing and moving posts?.............. why??.
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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

allypink wrote:You are now editing and moving posts?.............. why??.
From the logs, you had a new topic or post in Chat about Linux & Other Distributions, then it was moved to this thread.

We have a lot of threads popping up lately about GNOME3 and Ubuntu 11.04, I assume it was moved here since it was relevant to the discussion and didn't necessary need it's own thread.
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