Gnome3

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pony-tail
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Re: Gnome3

Post by pony-tail »

I think that the reason it irritates me so much is that I am not actually into Computers as a hobby / pastime - I just want to hop in get my s#!t done and get on with things I really like ( like offroading and fishing ) . My computer is not a toy , it has a job to do.
These new interfaces are not more efficient so therefore for me at least are not an improvement . They may be interesting to play around with when I have some spare time but
really not suited to a machine I have to do work on . The "i" generation can take their toys and play - but I have things to do .

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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome3

Post by linuxviolin »

I already posted this elsewhere in the forum today but I think it is quite at its place here also... :roll: So please, do not blame me to repeat myself here. :? :wink:

If you want another reasons why GNOME 3 is cr** read on:
k3rnel.net: Why I'm Sick and Tired of Gnome Shell:
I’ve been using Gnome Shell (Gnome 3) exclusively for 2 weeks today, and while I do have a few good words to say about it… today’s the day I’m switching to KDE once and for all.

Gnome Shell is Defective By Design, and I’m here to tell you why.

NetworkManager […]

And before you tell me it’s an unfinished product, these decisions are there by design, and as far as I know, I can’t right click anything to prompt for more options.

Alt Tab vs Alt | […]

Trying to Alt | between the windows is an absolute nightmare. […]

One quick way to fix this? Bring back the old Task Switcher, at the bottom of the screen. Where it’s been the past 10 or so years.

Add programs to the menu […]

Notification Area should be visible *always*

The notification area does not do its job. If you missed the notification, it hides and does not remind you of a missed notifications. […]

Right Click on Desktop Can’t change the Wallpaper […]

I really miss TimeZones […]

Defaults are just insane […]

Battery Monitor annoyance […]

Closing Words

Gnome’s “Simplicity” is down right insulting to a computer enthusiast. It makes it impossible to do simple tasks that used to flow naturally, and it’s made dozens of bizarre “design decisions”, like hiding Power Off behind the “Alt” key.

The lack of a taskbar, and hiding the notification area are extremely annoying, and the only reason I lasted this long is because I don’t have time to switch from Desktop-to-Desktop mid-week.

I think KDE is done re-installing. Good riddance, Gnome 3.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

And here's why GNOME3 is good by the same reviewer, in case someone was interested -> http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/01/what-i-act ... ome-shell/

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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome3

Post by linuxviolin »

proxima_centauri wrote:And here's why GNOME3 is good by the same reviewer, in case someone was interested -> http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/01/what-i-act ... ome-shell/
The link was also given in my post, seek well... But I guess you have misunderstood his article. Quote from it:
I think Gnome 3 is definitely worth it for a lot of people. Just not me. And it hurts, since I’ve actually used Gnome exclusively for over 6 years.
And in a comment in response to a poster:
I did try it, I didn’t like the right side dock (It wasn’t the position, it doesn’t really act like the task bar).

KDE 4 was incomplete, where as Gnome 3 claims to be complete, with a lot of the features removed for “simplicity” (Or because the users are too dumb to use them)
... :wink:
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

I've been using GNOME3 for almost two weeks now, and I appreciate the direction the GNOME3 developers are moving toward. Sure, GNOME3 is in it's infancy - but despite what some users view as an overwhelming lack of features, I'm enjoying the simplicity and fluidity of the system.

Many criticisms are guilty of not being fully aware of the different features or key combinations, for instance the "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE IS NO SHUTDOWN OPTION", "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO MINIMIZE AND MAXIMIZE BUTTONS" rants. Another one is lack of desktop on the background, all one needs to do is enable Nautilus to handle the desktop with Gnome Tweak Tool, or edit the value yourself in dconf-editor. Granted, sometimes these hidden settings are not intuitive, but that's why you read the manual or learn about the available extensions to modify gnome-shell. You can't expect to know the in's and out's of a brand new DE without doing research.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions

I will agree more work is necessary before a perfected experience is possible, an area I feel could use more development is the notification area at the bottom right. Though overall, GNOME3 is extremely fluid and lightweight compared to my previous GNOME2.32 + compiz. It just feels good to use, proper delays and polish in activating the gnome-shell and selecting windows/applications/workspaces.

I understand that it isn't for everyone, and that some people will simply prefer alternate desktop styles - that's okay, I have criticisms of my own. But I do feel the criticism of GNOME3 is a bit harsh and one sided, with a under representation for the good or positive aspects. I feel the developers certainly deserve some credit for their efforts.

zerozero
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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

well, i will repost here something i wrote almost 3 weeks ago if you don't mind :)

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 13#p406700
zerozero wrote:well i just had to try it again now that the product is finished :) and i went the lazy way: installed the daily fedora's iso about 3 weeks ago;
has been very funny: until last week, each new big update would break GS and force me to reinstall, but then it went stable and with the 3.0 release is solid.

my first idea was just play a bit with it, see what it was, how it was, meet the new animal and sooner or later delete the partition or find something else to put on it, at the moment with about a week of stable GS and the new things that already came along, maybe i will keep it a little long :)

first impressions: it's a little claustrophobic, i'm used to tweak, mess around with every little detail, and in the beginning GS was to closed, you were presented with a setup and that's it, but...
...and here is GS winning point all is customizable, it's just css, and you can change GS appearance and behaviour completely: within days we already have a tweak tool and a bunch of small extensions: the ridiculous hidden power-off is solved, we can easily change fonts system-wide, icons and theme (this late one requires a extension not yet available in fedora), we can have nautilus drawing the desktop (so, icons there, right-click) - and this in a couple days!!

I really believe we missed the point, GS can be more flexible than GNOME2, and in an easier way: the devs are just leaving that task to the community; they are offering a solid, fast, modern product that can be adapted and extended to one's needs;

and we have compiz aswell :) in the login we have the option to choose between GNOME (GS) or Classic Gnome (with compiz)

overall, will it win me over KDE? nahh, i don't think so! KDE is there, GS may get there, but it's funny to see it grow
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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome3

Post by linuxviolin »

zerozero wrote:
zerozero wrote:in the login we have the option to choose between GNOME (GS) or Classic Gnome (with compiz)
Not really (and for how long yet?):
GNOME 3 also support a 'fallback mode' in which we run gnome-panel, metacity and notification-daemon instead of GNOME Shell. Note that this mode is not a 'Classic GNOME' mode; the panel configuration will be adjusted to be similar to the shell.

The fallback will be handled automatically by gnome-session, which will detect insufficient graphics capabilities and run a different session.
GNOME 3 offers a fallback mode that models the GNOME Shell behavior.
(From the Fedora website)
Last edited by linuxviolin on Mon May 02, 2011 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

zerozero
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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

Linuxviolin,

the wording may not be the most clear, but that's exactly how it is at login: you have the option between gnome or classic gnome(with compiz);

the expression fallback mode only appears (if the memory now doesn't fail on me) in systemsettings

and the classic gnome behaves more as gnome2.32 than as GS (2 panels layout, cascade-menu, notification area, right-click)
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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

GNOME3 has no additional desktop options at login. There is a forced fallback mode one can set via System Settings -> System Info -> Graphics.

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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome3

Post by linuxviolin »

proxima_centauri wrote:I've been using GNOME3 for almost two weeks now, and I appreciate the direction the GNOME3 developers are moving toward. Sure, GNOME3 is in it's infancy - but despite what some users view as an overwhelming lack of features, I'm enjoying the simplicity and fluidity of the system.
Fortunately there are some people like you otherwise the "poor" GNOME devs should feel quite alone... :roll:
proxima_centauri wrote:Many criticisms are guilty of not being fully aware of the different features or key combinations, for instance the "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE IS NO SHUTDOWN OPTION", "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO MINIMIZE AND MAXIMIZE BUTTONS" rants. Another one is lack of desktop on the background, all one needs to do is enable Nautilus to handle the desktop with Gnome Tweak Tool, or edit the value yourself in dconf-editor. Granted, sometimes these hidden settings are not intuitive, but that's why you read the manual or learn about the available extensions to modify gnome-shell. You can't expect to know the in's and out's of a brand new DE without doing research.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions
Wov, and this is quite easy, simple, intuitive for users and newbies? Or it's a for geeks desktop rather? This is at the minimum "not intuitive" and ""hidden" as you say, and yet you're "nice"... And after that, people wonder why people use Windows... :roll:

Another example of the stupidity? OK:
GNOME3 is clearly broken

Difficult to configure, GNOME3 is also designed by people who should be shot dead:

How should people figure out they should press ALT to be offered the option to reboot/shutdown, not only suspend/hibernate?
How should people figure out they should press CTRL+DEL to delete a file in Nautilus?
Why does ALT+TAB only switch between applications, not windows or instances of those applications?
How can this be an intuitive desktop environment as long as it needs an official GNOME Shell cheatsheet?
How can anyone take a look at the stupid and ridiculous gnome-tweak-tool and not feel that everything is a bad joke?

Zero usability.

But this is worse. GNOME3 is hackable. See Skinning Gnome 3 in Fedora 15 pt. 1/2. You can have the minimize button, old-style themes, etc. But this is not for the regular Joe Sixpack or Jane Doe.

Oh, and reloading the GNOME Shell is done by running “r”. How lame.


proxima_centauri wrote: I feel the developers certainly deserve some credit for their efforts.
Unfortunately, I'm not at all sure of that and I'm afraid not. For me, what the GNOME devs deserve is rather something like a kick in the ass and... get out! (I'm sorry to be a little harsh but it's deserved here)

I miss the times when Linux was about progress, not regress (that was before KDE4). A lot of distros I was using or testing in 2005-2007 are now dead or dormant…
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

zerozero
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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

proxima_centauri wrote:GNOME3 has no additional desktop options at login. There is a forced fallback mode one can set via System Settings -> System Info -> Graphics.
are you sure?
Screenshot-24.png
Screenshot-24.png (741.29 KiB) Viewed 2118 times
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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

zerozero wrote:are you sure?]
Fascinating, I have no such option with GNOME3 in Arch Linux. Maybe a Fedora thing. Is "Classic gnome with compiz" different than GNOME3 fallback mode?

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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

as far i i can tell they are the same session, but this way is more user-friendly: you don't have to login, search a half-hidden option and logout :)
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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

Okay that makes sense. Smart of the Fedora crew to integrate that option into GDM.

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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

well at least now i know this is fedora specific 8) for a while it looked like we were talking about completely different things lol
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zerozero
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Re: Gnome3

Post by zerozero »

linuxviolin wrote:
zerozero wrote:in the login we have the option to choose between GNOME (GS) or Classic Gnome (with compiz)
Not really (and for how long yet?):
this classic gnome with compiz or fallback mode (or whatever...) is gtk3, so isn't going anywhere, is not the legacy 2.32 maintained to ease the transition
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pony-tail
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Re: Gnome3

Post by pony-tail »

Time will tell !
If they do not fix some - if not all of the usability issues in gnome 3 in the next release , they do not care about their user base and should be sacked from the development team ,
I still think a lot of the Gnome 3 / Ubuntu Unity fanboys are not using their computers for work they are using them for recreation ( killing time not trying to save time ) .
With some additions and a bit of modification it could be a good and workable desktop - I do not believe this will happen as a lot of what long term gnome users are finding irritating are functions designed in deliberately for what ever agenda they have , as such they will most likely not be changed for a very long time .
I use a tower PC with a 27 inch monitor I do this so I CAN have multiple instances of multiple applications with multiple windows open simultaneously the gnome devs come along and say you only need one application and one window so you do not get distracted - - I had that in 1986 with my Mac plus - real progress , NOT .

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proxima_centauri
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Re: Gnome3

Post by proxima_centauri »

pony-tail wrote: I do this so I CAN have multiple instances of multiple applications with multiple windows open simultaneously the gnome devs come along and say you only need one application and one window so you do not get distracted
Multiple applications with multiple windows open simultaneously is possible in GNOME3. The only difference is there is no "Window List" applet on the panel. You need to use the gnome-shell expose, or Alt+Tab to switch between different applications, and Alt+` to switch between multiple instances of the same app.

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Re: Gnome3

Post by pony-tail »

Multiple applications with multiple windows open simultaneously is possible in GNOME3. The only difference is there is no "Window List" applet on the panel. You need to use the gnome-shell expose, or Alt+Tab to switch between different applications, and Alt+` to switch between multiple instances of the same app.
That way of doing things may seem intuitive to you ( and yes I did know about it ) you probably touch type - I am a 2 finger typist at best . When I went to school typing was not
part of the curriculum for males (1960s ) . It does not work for me - and as far as I am concerned that is an end of it !

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linuxviolin
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Re: Gnome3

Post by linuxviolin »

To give just another example of stupidity, if still need, nothing to have to do this to stop the computer is a proof of stupidity:
2.1.1.1.3. How do I shutdown/power off or restart the system?
Hold down the Alt key and click on the user menu. The Suspend menu item at the end of the menu will change into Power Off.... While holding down the Alt key, click on that item. You will get options to shutdown or restart the system
Die GNOME devs! :twisted:

P.S.= If you want still more, you can for instance look at my post just above, or other here also... or elsewhere.
Last edited by linuxviolin on Mon May 02, 2011 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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