My nitpick with Mint's approach

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z06gal
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by z06gal »

My point is simply this = let Clem work through this. This is his FIRST release at obviously working very hard to make Mint users happy at adapting to the changes Gnome is making. If you read some of the comments on his release blog, it blows my mind the whining that is going on. I would be willing to bet about anything that when Mint 13 comes out, he will have developed the choices that will thrill Mint users but it will be bumpy along the way. I am different here than most I guess because I absolutely love what he has done with Mint 12. It is so easy and fast that I just don't get the complaints there. I have the cairo dock installed exactly like I did in Mint 11 with all the launchers I need and my favorites bar has my apps so all I have to do is click on the super key for that. I mean, I don't know how much easier it can be but again, that is my opinion. I did away with the bottom panel just like I did in Mint 11 and the top panel auto hides. I guess I don't get what is so difficult but Clem does listen to his users so my bet is it will be perfect when the fat lady sings.

Yes Shuttleworth has made the "it's free" comment but the difference is he brings out a release that is beta at best and makes no effort to fix anything. The ubuntu users end up having to do that themselves. Clem is exactly the opposite. There will not be a final release until it is ready and whatever issues come up, he and his team will fix. So, in my view, free is a big deal where Mint is concerned. :wink:
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Kilz
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by Kilz »

Aethyr wrote:@Kilz: But this is a moot point; You're still not running the Mint Desktop as it was intended, and that is my point in this thread; That instead of working on my desktop, I would like Mint to accomodate us more.
I think your coming at this wrong. At least from my understanding of how linux works. I could be wrong, but I have been at this since 2006. A developer creates something for their own use, and releases it. If people find it useful they use it. If not they use something else. The project is the developers, and while they may ask for an want constructive criticism they decide the development path. Accommodating is getting out of the way when someone wants to change something.
That isnt to say that users are only stuck with what a developer wants. They to can develop things if only for themselves.
The reason I use mint is not because it is a perfect match, but because it offers something close to what I find perfect. Then it stays out of the way when I want to modify it. The steps to get to a useable setup for me on Mint are much less than any other distro. Thats why I think Unity is a disaster, it gets in the way of my ability to change things.
I fully love having the multimedia things already setup, I like the icon theme, I think the updater is a good piece of code. I can live without the gnome shell and the other desktop addons. In this respect you also can change everything and anything. But long rants help no one and nothing. You are better off asking how to modify something, once you know putting that info out so others can use it. If the changes are popular, they may be adopted.
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tdockery97
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by tdockery97 »

Well said Kilz. I have never ever used Mint in its raw default configuration. I use Mint because it is constructed in a way that allows me to change whatever I want in order to get to MY default desktop. And I think Clem has done his best to make Mint 12 as configurable as it is possible for Gnome 3 to be.
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z06gal
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by z06gal »

Kilz wrote:
Aethyr wrote:@Kilz: But this is a moot point; You're still not running the Mint Desktop as it was intended, and that is my point in this thread; That instead of working on my desktop, I would like Mint to accomodate us more.
I think your coming at this wrong. At least from my understanding of how linux works. I could be wrong, but I have been at this since 2006. A developer creates something for their own use, and releases it. If people find it useful they use it. If not they use something else. The project is the developers, and while they may ask for an want constructive criticism they decide the development path. Accommodating is getting out of the way when someone wants to change something.
That isnt to say that users are only stuck with what a developer wants. They to can develop things if only for themselves.
The reason I use mint is not because it is a perfect match, but because it offers something close to what I find perfect. Then it stays out of the way when I want to modify it. The steps to get to a useable setup for me on Mint are much less than any other distro. Thats why I think Unity is a disaster, it gets in the way of my ability to change things.
I fully love having the multimedia things already setup, I like the icon theme, I think the updater is a good piece of code. I can live without the gnome shell and the other desktop addons. In this respect you also can change everything and anything. But long rants help no one and nothing. You are better off asking how to modify something, once you know putting that info out so others can use it. If the changes are popular, they may be adopted.

Very elegant post kilz :wink:
Aethyr
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by Aethyr »

Indeed a very elegant post. It made me realise that I too never run Mint in its exact default configuration, and what I loved about it was that I could get MY favorite configuration out of it within 5 minutes of installing and configuring the right packages. I just never saw GNOME Shell as being even close to what I wanted out of my desktop - in fact, it is as far as possible from it. I guess that the only way is the highway; since I don't like Shell and the way it works, separate session it is. I started out talking about the fallback, but well, it seems that no one believes it's going to go anywhere.

Yes I do realise that Clem will bring us a beautiful desktop in the end. He always does, because he puts in the effort. My opinion was that his efforts were spent, since after configuring my own Lisa desktop I used none of the new additions Clem made for Lisa.
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water spirit
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by water spirit »

Aethyr wrote: since after configuring my own Lisa desktop I used none of the new additions Clem made for Lisa.
Is this not the choice Mint is trying to offer us user's ? multiple ways to configure Mint 12 as we please.
utsuwa
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by utsuwa »

You know, I think that maybe MGSE version of Mint should not be the MAIN flavour anymore. I think gnome was used as a main flavour before due to personal preference of Clem, hardware use as compared to KDE, stability and completeness as compared to light stuff like XFCE/LXDE etc. However, now the main flavour resembles a wall build out of different shape, color and sizes lego blocks. No scratch that. More like a house built half with wood, half with concrete, half with paper and all this tied by a piece of rope. Its difficult and respectable work that Clem is doing right now. But, honestly, do we expect to things work smoothly? If people complain about LMDE or XFCE or even E17, why do we need to have main flavour based on something that is not even a DE. Who ever heard of MATE or MSGE before? If fallback of Gnome 3 is probably to be forgotten and not supported, do we have assurance that MSGE/MATE will be not?

Why not make main edition KDE or XFCE?

I wish Clem all the best in this undertaking, but I do wonder... Of course I hope he will not just choose the Gnome 3 route either (whats with those window titles? Are they this size because of enormous close button? Waste of space. Unpleasant to look at. And why developers with all the "innovation" and changes to desktop "experience" forgot to change their unimaginative, bland gnome icons? Not enough time to make something more good-looking?)
KBD47
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by KBD47 »

Aethyr wrote:Indeed a very elegant post. It made me realise that I too never run Mint in its exact default configuration, and what I loved about it was that I could get MY favorite configuration out of it within 5 minutes of installing and configuring the right packages. I just never saw GNOME Shell as being even close to what I wanted out of my desktop - in fact, it is as far as possible from it. I guess that the only way is the highway; since I don't like Shell and the way it works, separate session it is. I started out talking about the fallback, but well, it seems that no one believes it's going to go anywhere.

Yes I do realise that Clem will bring us a beautiful desktop in the end. He always does, because he puts in the effort. My opinion was that his efforts were spent, since after configuring my own Lisa desktop I used none of the new additions Clem made for Lisa.
Well, I hope we doubters are wrong and that Gnome Classic (Fallback) will be around awhile. If it is around until next Spring it will be in the LTS which would mean 5 years with the Gnome Classic desktop. Thanks to tdockery97 it took me just 5 minutes to make Gnome 3 Classic in Mint 12 to look like Gnome 2 in Mint 11. It is not exactly the same, but close enough that most users wouldn't notice or care. I'd like to see this setup put into an iso for hardcase classic gnome lovers:
in Mint 12 Gnome Classic: delete the bottom panel, drop the top panel to the bottom, add window buttons for minimized/open windows, add a couple workspaces, place computer, home folder, trash on the desktop, and add Mint menu. I doubt very many gnome classic lovers would complain with that setup.
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gsmanners
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by gsmanners »

Aethyr wrote:No matter how many extensions are added, no matter how much functionality is added, there is so much crucial functionality missing in and of itself that it can never reach a state of being comfortable to use with a mouse.
Crucial functionality? Care to go over this part a little more clearly? I'm not really seeing it.
Joe_Linux
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by Joe_Linux »

I've been using Mint12rc for a few days now on a USB stick, and I have no real important issues with it at this point. I would like to be able to put Launcher Icons on the Desktop and on the Taskbar. RIght now I don't have my Glipper which I really like, but I'm sure all that is coming or already here and I just don't know how to implement it. As far as MGSE is concerned it's a really great solution for an otherwise very nasty problem. It improves the stock Gnome Shell greatly and is a hell of a lot better than Unity which totally sucks as most productive users already know. Without a doubt Clem and the Mint team have done a more than admirable job for the Linux Community by providing a truly viable solution.
eric k
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by eric k »

Joe_Linux wrote: RIght now I don't have my Glipper which I really like
It isn't Glipper, but there is a Gnome Shell Clipboard Manager, GPaste: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/install- ... gnome.html
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Joe_Linux
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by Joe_Linux »

eric k wrote:
Joe_Linux wrote: RIght now I don't have my Glipper which I really like
It isn't Glipper, but there is a Gnome Shell Clipboard Manager, GPaste: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/install- ... gnome.html

Thanks a lot! I'm downloading Mint 12 final now from Ubuntu 10.04 and when that's done, I'm going to redo my USB stick with the final version and at that point I will try to install the Gnome Shell Clipboard Manager onto the USB stick. I will probably continue to use Ubuntu 10.04 on my HD and play with Mint 12 on the USB stick until such time as I feel fully confident to go ahead and install Mint 12 onto my HD. It should perform much better on the HD, but the RC actually works rather well just running from the USB stick. On another subject do you know of a little System Monitor App that can be added to one of the panels in Gnome 3?
eric k
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by eric k »

I do indeed; there is a System Monitor Extension in the webupd8 ppa that you can also find GPaste in. Andrei's really good about including various extensions, it's nice to have a "one stop shop" for trying them out.

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/gnome-sh ... nsion.html
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Joe_Linux
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Re: My nitpick with Mint's approach

Post by Joe_Linux »

Thanks, I had come across WebUpD8 before, but had forgotten about it. It's taking a long time for Mint 12 final to come down. Where in the heck is a torrent for 12 final?
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