New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby mhbell » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:46 am

So, I used efibootmgr to set the WIndows bootloader as primary (so the repair techs wouldn't get 'confused' when booting my laptop) and this resulted in some problems restoring rEFInd after recieving my repaired machine back.

Using bcdedit from within Windows (administrative CLI) had no effect. I had to boot from a Mint USB drive, install efibootmgr, and set rEFInd as the primary bootloader (manually mounting the boot partition and using, in my case, sudo efibootmgr -o 0005).


I did the same thing, but like I stated before, as soon as I rebooted it went right back to windows 8.1 as the default boot manager. The problem was not, that I couldn't boot Linux, the problem was I could not have linux as the default. if I pressed F9 at start up then I could choose whatever boot manager I wanted, but I had to press F9 at start to do it, otherwise windows 8.1 booted. many others smarter than me have had the same problem with HP Pavilion laptops with UEFI. Microsoft or HP have something hard coded in the system that always replaces the windows boot manager as the default if it is removed, name changed, or damaged. The only way I could get rid of it was to Erase the hard drive, make a new partition table using GPT and making a EFI partition for linux doing away with window 8.1 completely. I need windows for my tax program so will try to install windows 7 and dual boot with it instead of windows 8.1 I would not have this problem if I would use MBR instead of GPT and UEFI, but I am stuborn and want to use Uefi and GPT. I like the GPT partition table because you can have unlimited primary partitions and hard drives bigger than 2TB. I am going to experement some more with Windows 8.1 and see if I can find where the extra windows boot manager is stored and replace it with Linux boot manager changing the name and see if that works. Itried easy bcd and it borked my computer. ReFind works, but when I bootup it reverts back to Windows 8.1
Mel

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Postby Dngrsone » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:24 pm

Mhbell, did you rename the rEFInd bootloader and locate it as suggested here?

Hijack the Windows boot loader—Some buggy EFIs boot only the Windows boot loader, which is calledEFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi on the ESP. Thus, you may need to rename this boot loader to something else (I recommend moving it down one level, to EFI/Microsoft/bootmgfw.efi) and putting a copy of your preferred boot loader in its place. (Most distributions put a copy of GRUB in a subdirectory of EFI named after themselves, such as EFI/ubuntu for Ubuntu or EFI/fedora for Fedora.) Note that this solution is an ugly hack, and some users have reported that Windows will replace its boot loader, so it may not even work 100% of the time. It is, however, the only solution that works on some badly broken EFIs. Before attempting this solution, I recommend upgrading your firmware and re-registering your own boot loader with efibootmgr in Linux or bcdedit in Windows.


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Re:

Postby mhbell » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:30 pm

Dngrsone wrote:Mhbell, did you rename the rEFInd bootloader and locate it as suggested here?

Hijack the Windows boot loader—Some buggy EFIs boot only the Windows boot loader, which is calledEFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi on the ESP. Thus, you may need to rename this boot loader to something else (I recommend moving it down one level, to EFI/Microsoft/bootmgfw.efi) and putting a copy of your preferred boot loader in its place. (Most distributions put a copy of GRUB in a subdirectory of EFI named after themselves, such as EFI/ubuntu for Ubuntu or EFI/fedora for Fedora.) Note that this solution is an ugly hack, and some users have reported that Windows will replace its boot loader, so it may not even work 100% of the time. It is, however, the only solution that works on some badly broken EFIs. Before attempting this solution, I recommend upgrading your firmware and re-registering your own boot loader with efibootmgr in Linux or bcdedit in Windows.


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I upgraded my Bios and just finished reinstalling Windows 8.1 using restore disks that I made. Will resize the Win partition and reinstall Linux Mint 17 then will try the solution above. I tried it before and it messed up on me and had to reinstall The Windows 8.1 I think I need more instruction on how to do the above. Not sure I understand the moving down one level.
Mel

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Postby Dngrsone » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:17 pm

That's just saying to move the old file to another folder, such as the parent folder of its current location.

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Re:

Postby mhbell » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:35 pm

Dngrsone wrote:That's just saying to move the old file to another folder, such as the parent folder of its current location.

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Here is what I did. It is kind of a kludge but it works for me and Linux mint boots up by default. If I want Windows I can press F9 and choose a EFI File or ReFind to get to windows 8.1

from the Terminal (Linux Mint) I went to /boot/efi/efi and created a Directory called Win8

Code: Select all

mkdir Win8

I then went to The Microsoft Directory

Code: Select all

cd Microsoft

and copied the Windows boot loader to the new Win8 directory

Code: Select all

cp bootmgfw.efi /boot/efi/efi/Win8/

Next I deleted the bootmgfw.efi file in the Microsoft Directory which I am still in

Code: Select all

rm bootmgfw.efi

Now I went to the ubuntu directory which has the mint boot loader

Code: Select all

cd .. /ubuntu

and copied it to the Microsoft directory so that at boot up it will bring up the grub boot loader and let me into mint by default.

Code: Select all

cp grubx64.efi /boot/efi/efi/Microsoft/bootmgfw.efi

Now when the computer boots it will go to that file in the Microsoft directory and boot to Linux grub. This is the way HP pavilion laptops at least the newer one handle booting preinstalled windows 8.1. I can probably now put a path in the Linux mint grub file pointing to the Win8 directory so I can boot window from grub. I can't use the one that grub 2 finds because That will just bring me back to Mint.
Mel

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Dngrsone » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:41 pm

Good job, Mel! You can probably adjust the grub entry to point to the new location of the Windows bootloader.
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Portreve » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:46 pm

What I'm wondering, and have been wondering for some time, is if there is a way not to do it like this at all on the Mac.

I know this may sound odd, especially since I'm posing this in the rEFInd thread, but just hear me out.

When a Linux distro maintainer sets up their ISO image, it is capable of being booted, whether from a burned disc or a flash drive, without having to in any way screw with the EFI on a Mac. However, when one sets up the computer in question "for real" then it also adds whatever bits of setup and such to EFI.

The problem with this approach is that, for instance, if one resets one's PRAM on a Mac, you can no longer boot into the installed Linux system, or at least not without some fair amount of effort to re-establish things.

So why, then, is there all this focus and attention on things like rEFIt and now rEFInd, when instead distro maintainers should have the OS installer simply do for the full install on a hard drive whatever it is they do in setting up their installation ISO.

I shouldn't have to sacrifice the complete ability to boot an OS based on something as stupid as this, and I shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to get it back.

Conversely, is there a way for us normal users to reconstruct whatever the process is that distro maintainers use for their ISO setup with our full installation setup process?
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby mhbell » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:38 pm

Don't know if this will apply to you or not. I can only give you my experiance. HP Pavilion laptops with windows 8.1 preinstalled has 2 boot managers. one is kind of like a recovery manager that automaticaly replaces the other with a new copy, if it is renamed, corrupted or removed. This is why I had to jump through hoops as per say to dual boot with Linux and make linux the default OS. Not sure if it is HP or Microsoft that planed it this way.. Now when linux is installed if it is a 64 bit version that supports UEFI, it recognizes the UEFI (EFI) and installs a directory or folder in the EFI called (for example Ubuntu) windows installs a directory or folder called Microsoft and there could be other Directories called Tools or Recovery. In a normal UEFI you can assign which directory and its EFI File to boot as default. Not so with the HP Pavilion and its buggy Uefi Efi setup. You can still boot UEFI aware linux on a newer HP Pavilian by pressing F9 and choosing the linux you want to boot, But you can't change the boot order to make Linux the boot default and have to press F9 everytime you want to boot any OS other than Windows 8.1. I use Linux 99 percent of the time and only use windows because of my Tax software. I want Linux as my default OS and want it to boot up without having to press F9 or any other key. This is why I had to jump through hoops to get it the way I want. It is not the fault of Linux. it is the fault of Microsoft and HP. Probably Microsoft put pressure on HP to make the UEFI perform that way. I really don't know.
I hope that this has answered your question somewhat although it does not apply to your OS> As far as ReFind goes that is a type of boot manager to setup multiple boots for different OS's on different machines My computer now boots linux as the default and any other linux or OS I care to boot using grub2 which comes up at boot and boots linux in 10 seconds if I don't choose another OS or something else. I don't need ReFind, but it is easier to use to boot to windows 8.1 instead of a dozen or more key presses if I boot a EFI File pressing F9.
Mel
:D

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Portreve » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:06 pm

It is an exceedingly frustrating experience attempting to use non-Apple OSs on Apple hardware. To borrow a term of art used by Sony, Apple doesn't sell computers; they sell solutions. They don't really intend that their hardware be multi-use or general purpose in the sense of running any OS you feel like. It is sold to run a certain version of their OS, and is capable of running some number of subsequent releases of their OS. Anything else it can be used for is really not supported. That they facilitate people running Windows is a function of their perception that it serves their own business purposes.

I know this, and it is my goal to sell my MacBook Pro asap. However, for reasons I am not going to get into on a public forum, it is will be some time before I can replace this box. So it causes me to ask the question. To be fair, even though originally I thought EFI was a good idea, the more I see of how things are, the less I like it.

Anyhow, does anyone know how these "Live" ISOs are constructed?
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby juDas_iScariot » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:06 am

I'm unable to create a new thread (general error). But I really need help.

Dell Inspiron 14R 5437
Windows 8 pre-installed

Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sdb. UEFI installation mode fail. Unable to install Qiana after I cloned my 500GB to 1TB HDD. Previously managed to install Mint and Win 8 side by side. sda is USB installer.
Screenshot 1.png


Boot repair trial
Screenshot 2.png


An error occurred during the repair.

Please write on a paper the following URL:Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sdb
http://paste2.org/aB4C2YeZ

Locked-ESP detected. You may want to retry after creating a /boot/efi partition (FAT32, 100MB~250MB, start of the disk, boot flag). This can be performed via tools such as gParted. Then select this partition via the [Separate /boot/efi partition:] option of [Boot Repair].
Last edited by vrkalak on Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby jtl_777 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:58 pm

Hello, this looks interesting and I think it may be able to fix my problem. I am experiencing boot issues with my Windows 8.1 OS after removing linux and reinstalling. The grub menu doesn't pop up for me to load windows. The details are outlined here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=180296

Would this program be able to help in a situation like this? Thanks for your work and help.

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Jerry » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:44 am

HI. I recently purchased a Dell xps 15 9530 with very little success in being able to boot grub after install of LM 17 and Antergos. There are various guides available throughout the net. I was wondering if it's possible after install of LM 17 in which grub is for some reason not installed and instead goes directly to Windows 8 boot manager that rEFInd can be installed via USB and thereafter detect any Linux distros as I have had very little success in installing any Linux distro regardless of leaving Secure Boot either ON or OFF including leaving UEFI enabled.

My question is: Is it possible to install rEFInd via USB post install of any Linux distro and there after might rEFInd find any installed distributions?
thank you in advance for your response.
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Re: Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Dngrsone » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:12 pm

Jerry wrote:HI. I recently purchased a Dell xps 15 9530 with very little success in being able to boot grub after install of LM 17 and Antergos. There are various guides available throughout the net. I was wondering if it's possible after install of LM 17 in which grub is for some reason not installed and instead goes directly to Windows 8 boot manager that rEFInd can be installed via USB and thereafter detect any Linux distros as I have had very little success in installing any Linux distro regardless of leaving Secure Boot either ON or OFF including leaving UEFI enabled.

My question is: Is it possible to install rEFInd via USB post install of any Linux distro and there after might rEFInd find any installed distributions?
thank you in advance for your response.

In short, yes. But it will take some work on your part to get things to act the way you want them to.

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Re: Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Dngrsone » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:12 pm

Jerry wrote:HI. I recently purchased a Dell xps 15 9530 with very little success in being able to boot grub after install of LM 17 and Antergos. There are various guides available throughout the net. I was wondering if it's possible after install of LM 17 in which grub is for some reason not installed and instead goes directly to Windows 8 boot manager that rEFInd can be installed via USB and thereafter detect any Linux distros as I have had very little success in installing any Linux distro regardless of leaving Secure Boot either ON or OFF including leaving UEFI enabled.

My question is: Is it possible to install rEFInd via USB post install of any Linux distro and there after might rEFInd find any installed distributions?
thank you in advance for your response.

In short, yes. But it will take some work on your part to get things to act the way you want them to.

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Try politeness; people will like you for it.

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby Jerry » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:01 pm

hi and thank you for your response Dngrsone. Is it appropriate for me to ask what work would entail on my part within this thread or is it best to open up a seperate thread entirely?

If it is appropriate to ask within this thread, what work, step-by-step, would be required to get started?
If not appropriate, please do let me know.

On the off-chance it is ok to post here in this thread (and if required- I suspect it might be), I did download the .iso file [refind -flashdrive 0.8.3]from rEFInd website to boot via USB as my Dell XPS 15 has no optical drive.
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby reeby » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:59 pm

Thanks for the app!
I'm new to LInux and I've installed the rEFind. The boot sequence is as follows:
Boot0001* rEFInd Boot Manager
Boot0002* Windows Boot Manager
...but whenever i reboot the computer the Windows comes first and i have to do the usual ritual: click on "Restart" while holding Shift key.
Any idea as to how to make your manger comes first every time I start the computer?
Thanks!

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby rbmorse » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:54 pm

Check the boot device order in your BIOS setup. The rEFInd partition should be before the Windows EFI partition.
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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby reeby » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am

rbmorse wrote:Check the boot device order in your BIOS setup. The rEFInd partition should be before the Windows EFI partition.

Thanks for reply! I attached a pictue of my BIOS to this message ...and i just can not see any rEFind there((
It says:
OS boot manager
USB diskette on key/USB hard disk
USB CD/DVD Rom Drive
! Network adapter

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby darvems » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:14 am

Disabling Secure Boot is not that hard. It's hard to document how to do it, though, because the procedure varies so much from one computer to another. @mhbell, For any given computer, though, it's usually just changing one option in the firmware setup utility.
Last edited by darvems on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New EFI boot manager available: rEFInd

Postby rijnsma » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:29 pm

rbmorse wrote:Check the boot device order in your BIOS setup. The rEFInd partition should be before the Windows EFI partition.

I'm really dumb in this field.
Is it that the 200 MB thing? And how do things go with that 'rEFInd'? Is that an downloadable ISO or what? :)
I can't imagine the total proces, let's say. :D


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