Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Chat about Linux in general
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by ugly »

Grayfox wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:17 am
ugly wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:49 pm
Github is a bad place for beginners to go.
I may be seen as a Beginner but I did not have that much trouble with github at all.
All the projects I have run into have simple instructions with things like copy these commands and paste into terminal
Then extract folder, cd to folder do sudo ./install.sh.

I have used a GRUB theme, a driver for my laptops numpad touchpad(broken due to update), piper(G502 utility made by community), OpenRGB.
It can be hit or miss. Some have clear instructions. Some clearly outline the dependencies required. I've had some experiences where the instructions were clear, but even still ran into dependency issues. And then there are some projects that just don't provide much info at all.

I'd say overall I haven't run into too many major problems. The problem is that when you do run into a major problem it becomes very difficult to figure out yourself and there aren't as many resources for help.

But I do find his issues with downloading files from github to be odd. I've never run into that issue. I guess I haven't tried to just download an individual file and usually just clone it or download the zip file.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by Grayfox »

ugly wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:50 am
But I do find his issues with downloading files from github to be odd. I've never run into that issue. I guess I haven't tried to just download an individual file and usually just clone it or download the zip file.
He might have had trouble if he was using it for the first time.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

Grayfox wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:17 am
ugly wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:49 pm
Github is a bad place for beginners to go.
I may be seen as a Beginner but I did not have that much trouble with github at all.
All the projects I have run into have simple instructions with things like copy these commands and paste into terminal
Then extract folder, cd to folder do sudo ./install.sh.

I have used a GRUB theme, a driver for my laptops numpad touchpad(broken due to update), piper(G502 utility made by community), OpenRGB.
ugly wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:49 pm
dependency hell
I have run into this issue, but not from github, trying to get some deb package to install
I did. I was confused as all get out as to what I needed to download. Github is a scary place for newbies like me. So I cannot ding him for that, typical new user mistake. I was somewhat concerned with his comments on OBS which I thought was a native Linux application having missing functionality. Luke seems to have had a better experience with Mint, but he still seemed more or less negative in the long run.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by Grayfox »

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:13 am
I thought was a native Linux application having missing functionality
Its native on debian and its derivatives.

But Linus a newbie went with Arch based distro, which is less user friendly for newbies.
Cant say how easy it would be to get OBS-Studio to install with pacman since I have never even used arch, but if its not in the arch repos.
Thats were cluster bombs of trouble start.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

Grayfox wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:19 am
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:13 am
I thought was a native Linux application having missing functionality
Its native on debian and its derivatives.

But Linus a newbie went with Arch based distro, which is less user friendly for newbies.
Cant say how easy it would be to get OBS-Studio to install with pacman since I have never even used arch, but if its not in the arch repos.
Thats were cluster bombs of trouble start.
Oh, that explains it. Linus should have used Mint.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by Grayfox »

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:27 am
Oh, that explains it. Linus should have used Mint.
Well he went with POP which would've made things easier.
He could've gone with Ubuntu which is the "Go To" Version for newbies.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

Grayfox wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:01 am
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:27 am
Oh, that explains it. Linus should have used Mint.
Well he went with POP which would've made things easier.
He could've gone with Ubuntu which is the "Go To" Version for newbies.
True, but I was still astounded by the Steam bug, glad he found it, and let the world know about it. Regrettably I agree that most newbies find Ubuntu. I did, and left just as fast as I could to Mint.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by ugly »

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:13 am
I did. I was confused as all get out as to what I needed to download. Github is a scary place for newbies like me. So I cannot ding him for that, typical new user mistake.
It's hard to say. Because human memory isn't that reliable. For every skill, once you learn it, it seems easy and then we tend to forget how difficult it was to learn in the first place. So maybe I did struggle with it more than I remember.

And I think that's the main point on both the Windows and Linux side of this whole 'Linux challenge'.

Experienced Windows users have learned Windows over years of use. So they tend to forget how much they struggled with things early on. So when someone changes from Windows to Linux, that person is essentially comparing their experienced Windows skills (that ignores all the struggles they faced learning Windows), to all the struggles they face as an inexperienced Linux user.

And at the same time, experienced Linux users that claim switching over from Windows is easy and you can do almost everything on Linux, are comparing their current experienced Linux skills while ignoring all the struggles that it took them to get to that high level of skill.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by pinballfan »

ugly wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm
Experienced Windows users have learned Windows over years of use. So they tend to forget how much they struggled with things early on. So when someone changes from Windows to Linux, that person is essentially comparing their experienced Windows skills (that ignores all the struggles they faced learning Windows), to all the struggles they face as an inexperienced Linux user.
I'll never forget the horrors of Windows 3.1. I also had to suffer with Windows ME back in the day. I wasn't old enough to be able to fix things due to my young age at those times, but still, anyone going back to that old tech today, and having to input dos commands to launch/install anything, configuring sound, graphics, in other words making things compatible, is and always was a nightmare. Modern Windows is easier to use, but is still a hassle due to the business practices of Mircosoft and all of the virus issues etc.

Linux can be a pain in some areas like compatibility, and I also find it difficult to find installation folders. Even if something says it has been uninstalled, if I manage to find the folder, it still has all the data. That is at least with flatpak installs from the package manager. The HP wireless printer I have, works fine, but when the pc is switched off and back on again, it forgets the wireless data, so every time I want to print, I have to uninstall/re-install the printer to use it. Both operating systems have their annoyances, but Linux is free, Windows isn't, so I am thankful for that.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

ugly wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:13 am
I did. I was confused as all get out as to what I needed to download. Github is a scary place for newbies like me. So I cannot ding him for that, typical new user mistake.
It's hard to say. Because human memory isn't that reliable. For every skill, once you learn it, it seems easy and then we tend to forget how difficult it was to learn in the first place. So maybe I did struggle with it more than I remember.

And I think that's the main point on both the Windows and Linux side of this whole 'Linux challenge'.

Experienced Windows users have learned Windows over years of use. So they tend to forget how much they struggled with things early on. So when someone changes from Windows to Linux, that person is essentially comparing their experienced Windows skills (that ignores all the struggles they faced learning Windows), to all the struggles they face as an inexperienced Linux user.

And at the same time, experienced Linux users that claim switching over from Windows is easy and you can do almost everything on Linux, are comparing their current experienced Linux skills while ignoring all the struggles that it took them to get to that high level of skill.
Very good point, my knowledge of Winders has been painfully learned over the years. I was pretty good with DOS back in the day, but I have lost my knowledge from lack of use. The old saying; "If you don't use it, you lose it", is so true.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by RollyShed »

ugly wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm
And at the same time, experienced Linux users that claim switching over from Windows is easy and you can do almost everything on Linux, are comparing their current experienced Linux skills while ignoring all the struggles that it took them to get to that high level of skill.
Not here. She simply carried on using her computer as if nothing had happened when Windows was destroyed by MS and the next day her computer was Linux. Accounts, web browsing, emails, documents, all of the things a computer is used for. Questions? Yes but the answers I give are the same whether it was running Windows or Mint.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

RollyShed wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:21 pm
ugly wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm
And at the same time, experienced Linux users that claim switching over from Windows is easy and you can do almost everything on Linux, are comparing their current experienced Linux skills while ignoring all the struggles that it took them to get to that high level of skill.
Not here. She simply carried on using her computer as if nothing had happened when Windows was destroyed by MS and the next day her computer was Linux. Accounts, web browsing, emails, documents, all of the things a computer is used for. Questions? Yes but the answers I give are the same whether it was running Windows or Mint.
I, too, did not seem to have a great deal of issues USING Mint Linux compared to Windows. But I was just using it, not tinkering with it. I cannot say the same for Ubuntu and its Unity/Gnome desktop. Mint and Cinnamon was a relatively easy transition once the few hardware issues had been resolved. My early issue was the Realtek card in the HP laptop, and not turning off secure boot. The fact that LibreOffice can open MS files and write to them saved me a great deal of money on not having to purchase MS Publisher to edit the kids homework docs. Compared to Windows, I am much more comfortable "getting under the hood", and while I have hacked registry entries in Winders, it was always a nerve wracking experience.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by RollyShed »

MurphCID wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:16 am
I, too, did not seem to have a great deal of issues USING Mint Linux compared to Windows. But I was just using it, not tinkering with it.
And we were talking about using the computer. A bit like a car, you drive it and go from place to place. There are some who replace the engine, modify the body-work, etc.

The computer is a tool to do something with. Yes you can fiddle with it but always, are we talking about the 99% who simply drive a car or the <1% who "play" with it? And yes, I can drive on either side of the road just as easily, depending what country I'm in.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by rene »

RollyShed wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:53 pm
And we were talking about using the computer. A bit like a car, you drive it and go from place to place.
Warning though; never, ever pour gasoline into your computer.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by ivar »

^ mine runs on diesel :mrgreen:
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

RollyShed wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:53 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:16 am
I, too, did not seem to have a great deal of issues USING Mint Linux compared to Windows. But I was just using it, not tinkering with it.
And we were talking about using the computer. A bit like a car, you drive it and go from place to place. There are some who replace the engine, modify the body-work, etc.

The computer is a tool to do something with. Yes you can fiddle with it but always, are we talking about the 99% who simply drive a car or the <1% who "play" with it? And yes, I can drive on either side of the road just as easily, depending what country I'm in.
I am, perhaps in the top97/98% in that I can check the fluids, air in the tires, and on a really good day change the wiper blades. That is how I am with computers in general, and Linux specifically. I break ()!$#! then reload and then find something else to break. I just for the most part want to USE a computer, not have to build it from scratch.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by MurphCID »

DT has some thoughts on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCgHoL9_ZiY He is not too harsh on Linus, a little, but not terrible. My favorite channel (these days) Learn Linux TV has this take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjcByU0VKOk
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by RollyShed »

MurphCID wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 am
I am, perhaps in the top97/98% in that I can check the fluids, air in the tires, and on a really good day change the wiper blades.
My mother would be stripping the engine down on her Austin 7s and that was back in the 1930s so checking fluids and air pressure is only just a bit more than opening the door and sitting in the driver's seat. And yes, my van is due for an oil and filter change etc. though I'll admit to getting lazy and getting someone else to do it. The days of me replacing broken axles, rebuilding gear boxes has past.
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Re: This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

Post by MurphCID »

RollyShed wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:31 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 am
I am, perhaps in the top97/98% in that I can check the fluids, air in the tires, and on a really good day change the wiper blades.
My mother would be stripping the engine down on her Austin 7s and that was back in the 1930s so checking fluids and air pressure is only just a bit more than opening the door and sitting in the driver's seat. And yes, my van is due for an oil and filter change etc. though I'll admit to getting lazy and getting someone else to do it. The days of me replacing broken axles, rebuilding gear boxes has past.
Yeah, I have topped out at checking the fluids, and air pressure. Same with Linux at this point.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by MurphCID »

So I wonder what Part 3 is going to look like? I think this is an excellent example of Linux vs absolutely incompatible hardware (i.e. his sound device). Also I am suprised that Luke who claims some limited Linux knowledge did not know that you have to restart sometimes to get OBS working. I think what it did is scare off some people who might have been willing to try Linux as just not worth the hassle.
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