Old PC's, Windows and Linux

[Tosh]

Posted some of this earlier this year but I will start at the beginning again to avoid members search for the originals.

My Dell Vostro Laptop began life 2008, 2gb ram, Pentium processor and a 500 gb SSD (the only part I have replaced – original was only 250 gb and slow – would have liked more RAM but no reputable site I checked some years ago sold RAM guaranteed compatible for this pretty ancient laptop). It started life as 32 bit XP Pro which has subsequently been updated to 32 bit Win 7 Pro (clean install dual boot with XP) and later to 32 bit Win 10 Pro.

Wifes Toshiba Satellite Pro laptop dates back to 2011, 8 gb ram (upgraded from 4gb), 2nd Gen Core i3 processor, and a 500 gb SSD (upgraded from original HD). Started life as 64 bit Win 7 pro and later upgraded to 64 bit Win 10 pro.

Both worked well (as I said above the Vostro would have benefited from more RAM) but when I investigated early 2022 it was clear neither would upgrade to Win 11. No panic, Win 10 still supported until late 2025 so keep using them until they either die of support ends. Then I became aware that both were on Win 10 21H1 and even though it was available neither would update to version 21H2. A bit more research revealed support for version 21H1 ended in December 2022 so my hopes of keeping them up to date beyond late 2022 suddenly ended.

Having tried Linux back in 2011 (basically too many issues at the time eg lack of print support) I decided to see if things were better now, if they were the machines could live on. Decided to make my Vostro the experimental machine and leave the wifes Toshiba until later (but the good news was all versions of Linux I tried worked fine live including printing).

So for the Vostro I needed a 32 bit OS and not many around. Having liked Mint back in 2011/12 I installed LMDE4 on a new SSD and it worked perfectly. Then I spotted that support for LMDE 4 would end August 2022, worse than Windows 10. When it was available I downloaded LMDE 5 and installed it, total disaster. Laptop froze whenever I opened the browser or Libre Office, end of that good idea. Seems that the hardware is simply too old to work with modern Linux.

In early July wife decided she wanted a new windows laptop so with birthday coming up bought her a new Acer with win 11. She was/is delighted and I got the Toshiba as my “new” laptop. Checked Mint 21 live on it and decided the Mate version suited me and once it was officially out installed it on a new 500 gb SSD. Works great and after a bit of confusion its now 21.1.

After I got the Tosh sorted I played with the Vostro and discovered its actually a 64 bit machine (Dell for some reason sold it with 32 bit XP installed). Still no luck with Mint and other current distro’s did exactly the same thing with the exception of Bodhi 6 64 bit which did actually work perfectly (and is supported until 2025) but with the Tosh to use I decided to keep the Vostro as a Windows machine since it connects to my track cars ECU (which dates back to 2002) using XP with no issues.

So last week I got the Vostro out just to turn it on and check it still works. Intended to turn off the internet since its now out of support but forgot and before long got a message saying updates available. Checked and the update was to Windows 10 22H2 which is supported until mid 2023, installed it and all fine. The laptop is now back in the store. Made me think, wonder if the Tosh will update? So out with the Mint SSD and back in the Windows SSD, booted it up, checked for updates and none available. Left it a couple of hours and still nothing, looks like 21H1 was the last it would install.

So basically I have a 2008 laptop that will not run modern Linux but has updated to Windows 10 22H2 (current) and a 2011 laptop that seems to run any modern Linux but will not update windows and is now EOL.

Seems bizarre to me, I would have expected the older Vostro to fail with Windows as it did with Linux but yet it still lives, however, the newer Tosh lives only as a Mint machine (not an issue – love it).

Any ideas what is happening? Back in 2011 the Linux mantra was “keep your old machine working when it will not work with Windows any longer”, what has changed?

[Hoser Rob]

... Back in 2011 the Linux mantra was “keep your old machine working when it will not work with Windows any longer”, what has changed?

It was only the mantra for some Linux users.

[Tosh]

... Back in 2011 the Linux mantra was “keep your old machine working when it will not work with Windows any longer”, what has changed?

It was only the mantra for some Linux users.

Even today whilst flagship versions such as Cinnamon cater for recent hardware versions such as XFCE are clearly aimed at people with older hardware with fewer resources.

I have Mate on this laptop because Cinnamon was simply not as smooth to use despite the laptop having a Intel Core processor and plenty of RAM. I found that XFCE felt very dated and worked no better than Mate.

I did try Ubuntu 22.04 with the default Gnome desktop and it was awful, with the Mate desktop it was better but not as good as Mint with the Mate desktop.

[Dullard du Jour]

My father was a man who could never move with the times, always lived in the past. Nothing new, reuse all you can...the old U.S. Depression Era mentality. I don't support that mentality at all. I have an old HP Z6000 Pavilion that I got ~2000, weighs probably 8 pounds, I swear the power brick is another 2 pounds. Won't boot from the USB port. Why would I even want to try and use that laptop with Linux...or any software, in this day and age?

The reuse or save your old computer was a Linux catchphrase designed to lure new people to Linux. In other words, don't toss that old PC or laptop, give Linux a try...it will install. Yep, Linux would install but almost any person below the geek level would give up when they found that even the CUPS drivers would be hellish, not to mention graphics, modems, etc.

Obviously I am not a fan of "saving old computers" because it induces a thought process in software and user circles to keep backwards compatibility. At some point users have to give up that backward compatibility as do programmers.

[Hawaiihemd]

All I can contribute is that it's not every older machine that does not work.
I'm running LMDE5 on a HP Pavilion dv6000 with 2GB RAM from 2007 since New Year and it's running perfectly.

[Dullard du Jour]

All I can contribute is that it's not every older machine that does not work.
I'm running LMDE5 on a HP Pavilion dv6000 with 2GB RAM from 2007 since New Year and it's running perfectly.

I am pretty sure my ZV6000 will run Linux but I would need to install with the DVD drive. Not a problem but honestly, I would have no use for the laptop with Linux on it, the laptop currently has XP on it and I still have no use for the laptop. It falls far short of a current laptop and very far short of my new build PC that I have Mint Vanessa installed.

[Pjotr]

Give me Linux Mint Xfce on an older machine any day. And a fine piece of meat on my plate every day (no ultra-processed and therefore unhealthy veggie rubbish, please).

But very old machines should simply be dumped. They're a waste of time and energy.

[SMG]

Moderator note: A number of posts violating forum rules have been removed from the topic. Please stay on topic.

[Artim]

Linux Mint Xfce is keeping this old hand-me-down running better than when it was brand new, running Windows XP!

An really ancient computer that was my parents' first computer, a 32-bit relic with 512MB of RAM, still runs great on a 32-bit version of Salix OS which is up-to-date and everything, and runs just fine despite being one step up from an 𝕒𝕓𝕒𝕔𝕦𝕤 for cry'n out loud.

I have restored a couple of old 'puters at school that they were just going to throw out. Now they're being used by others. So yeah, Linux is definitely good for that!

But that isn't my reason for using it, and wasn't the reason when I dumped Windows® for Linux. I was just ticked off at all the interruptions I was getting, all the extra stuff I didn't want or need that was always running in the background, and the gradual decay until the 'puter was running so slowly only an expensive trip to the computer repair shop could fix it.

[BigEasy]

Any ideas what is happening? Back in 2011 the Linux mantra was “keep your old machine working when it will not work with Windows any longer”, what has changed?

Nothing. I don't know what is "machine" old or new. I have two workhorses at home - computers produced in 2007 and 2008. Both work great with LM 21.1. Yes, I have old computers, and you have old laptops. It is two different things. Many laptops produced at any time are often problematic for Linux. It is wellknown fact. It's all about support of very different hardware.

[RollyShed]

Dell for some reason sold it with 32 bit XP installed.

Not the only manufacturer to do that.

We have a not quite so old, October 2009 eMachines Acer N450, originally 1GB RAM now 2GB RAM, originally with 32 bit Win XP. It will run 64 bit Linux Mint Cinnamon as I've tried an SSD in it to try it out. At present it runs 32 bit MATE. It used to be our travelling laptop but I was given a really modern one to replace it, a September 2015 ASUS TP200, 2GB RAM, which I put Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.3 on.

The ASUS only has 32GB of RAM so its original Windows 10 couldn't update due to no room.

At the moment I'm doing a Mint Cinnamon 21 installation on a April 2011 Aspire-one 522. An SSD and 4GB in place of the 1GB of RAM.

[RollyShed]

Many laptops produced at any time are often problematic for Linux.

Just as well I don't know that as most of the 50+ installations I've done have been on laptops without any problems.

OK, problems due to how to get the bottom off to get in to actually replace the disk with an SSD? They range from one screw and the disk cover off to 20 screws on the bottom, 5 under the keyboard and crowbar it apart to get in.

[Petermint]

Reuse is the first rule of recycling and being green. That does not mean you have to be the one trying to keep your 1980s laptop still running as a laptop. In my case, anything without at least USB 3.1 gen 2 is useless. Reuse could be replacing Windows x with Linux to help a student read study notes downloaded from college. Or reusing the machine with an Intel 4004 processor, , as a file server.

My ancient Pi Zero can run 32 bit with no GUI and control an irrigation system with just 0.5 GB on a single core running at about 0.0000 GHz.

The whole point of having 18 Gazillion Linux distributions is to help people repurpose hardware as needed. I would not force any of the old machines to work as a daily notebook as I recommend the latest versions Thunderbird, LibreOffice, Gimp, Darktable, and they need some grunt. My network backup machine just needs space, not grunt. Any old PC with a few 3.5" SATA disks will do.

Windows does not offer that range choice for reuse unless you kept the floppies for Windows 3.1.

[exploder]

I have two older FX series systems, Mint 21.1 runs circles around Windows 10 on this hardware! These systems were so slow on Windows 10, fully tweaked and I was ready to donate them to charity. Cinnamon is much lighter than many realize, it can be as light as Xfce with some tinkering.

These FX series systems are by no means as fast as the new system across the room but to use them for normal tasks, you would never know the difference. They are not great for gaming as would be expected but they are capable of playing some older titles with Steam.

These desktops have new cases and RGB fans, everything else was used and bought on Marketplace and Ebay. For about $250.00 a piece, they look great and run very well now. Had it not been for Linux Mint Cinnamon edition, these systems would be out the door. The tweaking is the fun part and very much worth the effort!

[Dullard du Jour]

As the saying goes..."Your mileage may vary."

Before settling on Mint XFCE I tried several other distros and read a number of support sites about Linux. Across the board it seemed to me the highest incidence of support requests came from folks using laptops of various lineage and age. There were a high number of GRUB issues, virtual machine issues and issues caused by folks that simply cannot leave a working OS alone.

Still...laptops were the bug-a-boo. I never understood that because there were also laptop issues at times with Windows in the corporate world I came from. Maybe laptop designers go to a different school than desktop designers?

My old Win 7 box was built around 2009 with Intel 950 Bloomfield CPU and Gigabyte board. Still runs strong on the same hardware and with the same 120 gig SSD. It has been a workhorse for all these years and ran Mint without any issues. On the other hand, my 12 or 13 pound HP laptop from the same era, won't boot from a USB, has no wireless ability and is too heavy to carry around. Maybe if I needed it for a base for wired home security it would be OK, but to lug around on trips it is much too heavy and too limited for that use.

[BigEasy]

Many laptops produced at any time are often problematic for Linux.

Just as well I don't know that as most of the 50+ installations I've done have been on laptops without any problems.

Sleeping-wakeup, touchpad, wifi, bluetooth, audio - always OK?

[RollyShed]

Sleeping-wakeup, touchpad, wifi, bluetooth, audio - always OK?

No problems that I have found except WiFi on one make and model of laptop. The solution was to use a USB WiFi. I have a near 20 year old one and it is still on the market and they definitely work. TP-Link TL-WN821N.

[Petermint]

Some generational changes to consider before reusing an old computer.

SATA III or earlier? I found a machine with SATA II, not III. The older versions of SATA are so slow, you are better off with a Raspberry Pi 4 running a disk through USB 3.

Power supplies. One old machine needed some expansion cards to keep it compatible with the current world but the power supply would not carry the load without the tiny power supply fan screaming and possible voltage drops by the time it is fully upgraded. I recycled the excellent metal case with a whole new interior.

Offsetting that is forward compatibility. You could replace that rotating rust disk with an NVMe SSD in an adaptor plate then reuse the NVMe in a future machine or as external storage in an enclosure. You can update old rubbish without throwing away your money.

With notebooks charging from 19 volts and the latest USB supplying 20 volts, future notebooks should all switch to something like USB 3.2 for charging. You can get your 20 volts direct from a 24 volt battery charged by regular 28 volt solar. No need to waste massive amounts of power converting to mains power then back. This is one of several good reasons to toss out inefficient ancient hardware. Plus you can pack the result into your car for travel away from the city.

[RollyShed]

You could replace that rotating rust disk with an NVMe SSD in an adaptor plate then reuse the NVMe in a future machine or as external storage in an enclosure. You can update old rubbish without throwing away your money.

Laptops I do, an old one the other day 2008, I always fit an SSD in place of the hard disk. Not sure if adaptor plates are available o

[Kenz]

Usually, it's wireless that is my problem, albeit rarely. Wireless on this 2007 Macbook worked after installing a driver. The keyboard is designed for OS X so it has a few quirks as one would expect. My HP xw4600 (also the same age as the Macbook) had sound problems that were solved by a plug and play adapter (no driver needed) There are model-specific issues across some older PCs and laptops but I've rarely encountered any that prevent me from installing, and using, Linux.