Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release ever

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igor83

Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by igor83 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:53 pm

Bolle1961 wrote:If it's a real disaster I don't know, I only have it for 1 day on my Asus EeePC900 :D
What I didn't like as that after installation I got the teletubby desktop, just like the Xandros desktop back in 2008 :( :(
No chance to choose the normal desktop at installation or at login .....

Debian, openSUSE, Linux Mint, SolydK installs the normal desktop on the same netbook ...
I plan to give Kubuntu 13.10 a try. Kubuntu does not intend to use MIR and has an "upgrade" option to simplify updating to the next release. All of that sounds pretty decent to me. They also seem to be using their own version of software manager, called Muon. I do not know why anyone would use generic Ubuntu over the nicer ubuntu derivatives that shed all of Canonical's innovations for the desktop, if those innovations are undesired. Kubuntu is running KDE 4.11.

I'm pretty interested to see how Linux Mint is going to react when Ubuntu disables support for X and does not support wayland, as their development plan promises, but that's still a good ways into the future I reckon, and probably the wisest course is to wait and see after the dust settles and Canonical makes a firm decision one way or the other. My guess is that Linux Mint will go any which way they think their users want them to go and will be making decisions based on community feedback and donations. I don't think they are going to leap out in front with any early decision.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by M_aD » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:29 pm

igor83 wrote: I'm pretty interested to see how Linux Mint is going to react when Ubuntu disables support for X and does not support wayland, as their development plan promises, but that's still a good ways into the future I reckon, and probably the wisest course is to wait and see after the dust settles and Canonical makes a firm decision one way or the other. My guess is that Linux Mint will go any which way they think their users want them to go and will be making decisions based on community feedback and donations. I don't think they are going to leap out in front with any early decision.
Just like Xubuntu and kubuntu are planning on not using Mir at all they plan to continue using X, Mint will do the same i guess just like many other distro's because X isn't going anywhere and will still be available in the repo's. Mint, Xubuntu and other derivates are using the base of Ubuntu and build their vision of a system on top of that. That base can't be a full desktop with X but is rather a CLI install if i'm not mistaken which doesn't require X window manager. Right?

Mir won't show up anytime soon as default window manager, that'll be the case for 14.10 which means there's still enough time. They (Canonical/Ubuntu) are nuts when the decide to put it in 14.04 LTS but it wouldn't surprize me at all.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MALsPa » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:58 pm

Haven't tried Ubuntu 13.10 myself; I prefer to stick with LTS releases. But, seeing a thread title like this one at the Mint forums, I'm inclined to want to take it with a grain of salt.... 8)

So far, I've looked over four different reviews of Ubuntu 13.10, but none of those reviewers come anywhere close to describing it as a "fiasco" or "the worst Ubuntu release ever":

http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/ubuntu-reviews/ubuntu-13-10/
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/ubuntu-13-10-review-the-linux-os-of-the-future-remains-a-year-away/
http://www.zdnet.com/ubuntu-13-10-saucy-salamander-review-smart-scopes-in-mir-out-7000022022/
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/ubuntu-1310-it-just-works/

The biggest gripe seems to be that there aren't enough new features.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by sammiev » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:50 pm

I have been running two flavors of Saucy 13.10 for months and thought it was one of the better OS I have tried in sometime. I have started to setup for 14.04. :)

Code: Select all

sam@sam-L650:~$ lsb_release -a
Description:	Ubuntu Trusty Tahr (development branch)
Release:	14.04
Codename:	trusty
sam@sam-L650:~$

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:10 am

@malspa: I have been using 13.10 in development for the last 3 months and it has been EXCELLENT...it's like 13.04 but with even further improvements... :D
Yesterday, i upgraded it again with the 13.10 final iso (as a means of clearing out some of the excess..you know in development there are tons of updates on a DAILY basis) and enjoying the final version now...SMOOTH and SNAPPY is all i can say... :wink:

I was going to go the LTS to LTS route beginning with 14.04 but i discovered an excellent way to keep rolling into each new final version of ubuntu without having to add back all my programs and data (you know, videos, music, photos, documents, etc)...it is by using the UPGRADE option which comes up on Ubuntu's auto installer options IF you only run 1 version of Ubuntu (doesn't do that for multi booted ubuntus)...

What it does is essentially a clean install, removes the old version and brings over the majority of your programs, most of your settings and all your data...
I only have to spend maybe half an hour putting those few things back and i am good to go...saves me hours of work i would have to do after a clean install...

It's as fast as doing a clean iso install and seems to be extremely reliable...probably much more so then using the software updater upgrade method (which also takes far longer since it has to keep going to the internet)....seems dependable enough for me to "roll" into each new version... :mrgreen:

If anyone wants to read about my experience....you can see it in my ubuntu forum thread here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2181643

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MALsPa » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:13 pm

craig10x, that sounds like a good approach. I'll stick with LTS releases for Ubuntu, though. I've never really had any interest in those in-between releases, partly because I run several distros here, including rolling-release distros like Sabayon, ArchBang, Chakra, etc. For long-term and stable, I like Debian Stable, Ubuntu LTS, and openSUSE.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:29 am

Got you, malspa...yeah your set up is quite different then mine and you do run some rolling releases...for me, it's solo (just ubuntu) and that's why i like to get each new version as they are released...Using that upgrade method allows me to "roll" (as it were) into each new one without having to re-install everything (just a few items and a couple of tweaks and i am good to go)...I was really getting tired of having to do all that each time, so i am so glad i discovered this reliable method... :D

It was interesting being in development, and in fact eventually there will be a "symlink" for it (one of their developers is working on it but it currently has some "glitches") so they can "roll" with development without having to manually change their source lists as they do now) to jump from one to the next...that is actually now considered to be the "rolling" branch of ubuntu but i decided i would rather "roll' with final released versions... :wink:

Lots of interesting things going on in ubuntu these days...

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by catweazel » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:48 am

Brahim wrote:Yesterday, i installed ubuntu 13.10 codename Saucy Salamander alongside Linux Mint 13 Mate and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and I was surprised at the mess i got: Scripts not working, when i try to install Google earth it says things about dependencies not satisfied and all, flickering plymouth and unity greeter, constant freezing and the list is longer and is still growing i think! What's happening guys! Does that mean we will inherit this mess on Linux Mint 16 Petra!!!!!!
You must've buggered something up because 13.10 is working flawlessly here.

The only issue I had was two missing libraries needed by virtualbox. A quick apt-get install fixed it.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MALsPa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:22 am

craig10x, correct me if I'm wrong but what you're describing (Ubuntu development branch) sounds somewhat along the lines of Debian Sid and/or Testing, which are kinda rolling-release, too.

Of course, that's a different kind of rolling-release than something like Arch or Sabayon. Different goals and philosophies.

The upgrade method that you describe sounds great!

This might sound crazy, but after all this time, I have never, with any distro, even attempted to upgrade from one release to the next (not counting keeping a rolling-release distro up-to-date). Haven't even done that with Debian, even though my understanding is that it works out fine. I kinda enjoy doing a fresh installation. I like to see what changes (if any) have been made to the installer; seems like I always learn some new things; it seems like each installation makes me a little better at doing installations, and at getting things set up; and, with a fresh installation, I almost always end up with a better system than I had the last time around.

I'm very methodical about typing up installation notes, detailing every step, and I always refer to older notes when doing a new installation. That helps a lot, and even with the time it takes to put everything in my notes, it helps to make most installations a breeze. It's fun to me -- I think, sometimes, that I get into it in the same kind of way that other people get into gaming...

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:57 am

malspa: Yeah, ubuntu development is kind of like debian testing or LMDE to give a mint example (as it was before the package method they use on LMDE now)...

Every day, you get a big bunch of updates as they make changes, fix bugs, etc...I got into it on 13.04 and 13.10 but not until the last 3 months and it was pretty darn nice...in fact, i had less problems with it then when i ran LMDE and it is actually pretty smooth!...but i have heard that during the early stages (first few months of development) things can sometime get a bit glitchy so that is why i decided not to continue with it (even though that symlink method they will eventually have will really make it like a rolling and in fact the symlink will point to each new version with no upgrading or changing source lists)...

But i was looking for a way i could install each new version of ubuntu WITHOUT having to spend all the time putting all my programs and data back on again...and looks like i found it :wink:

To me, it sure feels like a clean install... i noticed it was getting rid of a lot of stuff during the install... and it did clear out a lot of stuff that was on my 13.10 development and yet brought over most of my programs, system settings AND all my data! And it even brings over all your personal settings (by that i mean settings on your programs, caches, urls, settings and extensions on the browser, etc)...like everything...

When i was in development, for example... i would sometimes get pop up windows about a bug on the system it wanted to report to ubuntu...since i did the upgrade, i don't get them anymore...so i kind of get the sense that it is like a fresh install but without much of the extra work and time that usually involves...

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Nilla Wafer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:43 pm

That all sounds really cool for hobbyists and tinkerers. For us ordinary mere mortals, though, if I really was willing to assume the risks of rolling release, I wouldn't be using an experimental or beta development version of any distro. I'd look for one that has a well documented reputation for stability and safe updates that rarely if ever break stuff. Exploder has [url=http://www.pclinuxos.com]referred to one[/url] a few times here that probably offers all the benefits without the high risk of a rolling development release.

~nilla

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:37 pm

PCLinuxOS is a great distro! I agree!!
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by sammiev » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:34 pm

PCLinuxOS is what I play with when I have time. It's a good fast little OS. :)

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:12 am

@Nilla Wafer: I agree...as i mentioned it wasn't bad for me (using ubuntu's development branch) and the updates in it have become pretty darn reliable (due to much improved quality control methods) but still...as i mentioned, in both cases (13.04 and 13.10) i got in only during the last 3 months of the cycle and have heard in the early stages, sometimes things get a bit "glitchy" (can't speak from personal experience on that but that is what i was told by other testers there)...

So as an alternate, after discovering a really neat way to upgrade that they offer and seems to be to be a darn reliable method at that, i found a way that i can "roll" (as it were) not on a daily basis but into each new fresh FINAL version of it as they are released...so, i am a happy camper now :D

I know PCLinuxOs is nice...but they are more kde oriented and i am a gnome kind of guy... :wink:

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Nilla Wafer » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:01 am

craig10x wrote: I know PCLinuxOs is nice...but they are more kde oriented and i am a gnome kind of guy... :wink:
On their site they have all different flavors. KDE is their main one but they also have Gnome, Mate, Xfce, LXDE, E17, and Cinnamon coming soon (in their forums you find the other flavors, some unofficial but all getting rave reviews).

For that matter, Ubuntu is no longer a Gnome oriented distro either, unless you count Unity as Gnome shell, which is what it kinda looks like. Just sayin'.

~nilla

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MALsPa » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:20 am

Nilla Wafer wrote:
craig10x wrote: I know PCLinuxOs is nice...but they are more kde oriented and i am a gnome kind of guy... :wink:
On their site they have all different flavors. KDE is their main one but they also have Gnome, Mate, Xfce, LXDE, E17, and Cinnamon coming soon (in their forums you find the other flavors, some unofficial but all getting rave reviews).
True, but PCLOS is still KDE-oriented in the sense that more effort goes into the KDE spins. Or so it seems to me.
Nilla Wafer wrote:For that matter, Ubuntu is no longer a Gnome oriented distro either, unless you count Unity as Gnome shell, which is what it kinda looks like.
I'd say that Ubuntu is definitely still GNOME-oriented. Unity is a "shell" for GNOME 3. GNOME's Nautilus runs the desktop, right? I have both Unity and GNOME Shell installed in Ubuntu, and go back and forth between the two. Either way, it's still GNOME.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by The Dark Side » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:21 am

Estimated: Let Parts: 13.10 I do not think this is the worst edition of the history of Ubuntu (for I think 11.04 and 11.10 were even worse). Although, unfortunately Ubuntu is far from perfect in this edition. I think the biggest problem of Ubuntu is called Unity. Yes !! Unity can not be in any way, the desktop freezes when you minimize or maximize a window (and this has been happening since Ubuntu 12.10). It worries me, more than anything thinking they will do in the next version, which will be LTS......

Fortunately in Kubuntu 13.10 and Xubuntu 13.10 the situation is very different ..... Both are quite stable, have no serious problems in view. If you really want something good to choose these two. Kubuntu and Xubuntu work very well, the little fiasco of this edition is Ubuntu its own. Best Regards to All !!
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by igor83 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:05 pm

Jose Manuel wrote:Estimated: Let Parts: 13.10 I do not think this is the worst edition of the history of Ubuntu (for I think 11.04 and 11.10 were even worse). Although, unfortunately Ubuntu is far from perfect in this edition. I think the biggest problem of Ubuntu is called Unity. Yes !! Unity can not be in any way, the desktop freezes when you minimize or maximize a window (and this has been happening since Ubuntu 12.10). It worries me, more than anything thinking they will do in the next version, which will be LTS......

Fortunately in Kubuntu 13.10 and Xubuntu 13.10 the situation is very different ..... Both are quite stable, have no serious problems in view. If you really want something good to choose these two. Kubuntu and Xubuntu work very well, the little fiasco of this edition is Ubuntu its own. Best Regards to All !!
Kubuntu has come a long way since 12.04 and I think it does give Linux Mint a run for its money. I look forward to Xubuntu 14.04 LTS for my htpc, and Kubuntu 14.04 LTS for my desktop, the main reason being that it's awfully hard to wait around for the Linux Mint edition to be released, when Kubuntu is so good on its own. I am thinking that may be the main reason Linux Mint choosed Gnome-derivatives as its default desktops, because KDE and Xfce seem already adequately served.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by res0r9lm » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:31 am

Once I get new HDD moving away from anything Canonical. LMDE looks better than ubuntu but I'm leaning toward Gentoo with Cinnamon.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:27 pm

I think it's just amazing how there are some that have such a hate of Canonical and Ubuntu when they are responsible for linux becoming a bit more mainstream...you want linux to remain just a geek/techies OS forever?

By the way, did you know those Chromebooks you see in stores (finally linux gets to compete against Windows and Mac) is a modified version of UBUNTU?
yep...

Hopefully, maybe at some point we will see ubuntu w/unity computers more commonly in our local stores...

I have been running 13.10 now for several months (back when it was still being development) best Ubuntu yet! A real pleasure to use....
you can have your debian...gentoos...whatever... :lol:

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