Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release ever

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by exploder » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:53 pm

I had a very modified 12.04 install, lots of changes to the user interface making it look like the newer releases and a lot of little tweaks to fix Plymouth and speed up the system. When I tried upgrading to 12.10 the upgrade failed. I blame the failure on the changes I made and not answering the questions correctly that the Update Manager asked. Many of the tweaks and such I have done in the past are no longer necessary.

An example would be tweaking what runs at startup, turning things off makes no real difference anymore. The tweaks I made to the user interface are also no longer necessary because everything is much cleaner and more streamlined with Unity in 13.10. I no longer need to modify Plymouth because the NVidea and ATI open source drivers are working very well on both computers and Plymouth is displaying just like it should.

I was really surprised when I realized that the computer my wife is using was running the open source drivers for it's NVidea GT 220 graphics card! There used to be a lot of screen flicker at boot and the screen would flash with ugly green artifacts but with 13.10 these problems are gone. The computer I am running with ATI graphics used to boot unreliably with the open source drivers but I have had no problems booting at all.

Graphics have really improved a lot recently and I think a lot of it has to do with Steam and decent games being written to run on Linux. Both Unity and Cinnamon have improved by leaps and bounds in a very short period of time too. Canonical has improved on the way new releases are tested, they now ask the participants in development to test upgrading to the new release and from what I am seeing and others are reporting it is making a big difference. I have always done a clean install with Ubuntu or anything Ubuntu based for that matter because I was worried about having a lot of remnants remaining from the previous install but that was not the case upgrading from 13.04 to 13.10. I had to clean up a handful of residual config files and the remains of the older kernel, it only took a few minutes to clean things up.

The install footprint was actually a little smaller than with the previous release! The only real bug I found on both computers was the redundant restart entry in the menu and it was extremely easy to take care of it. I could have just left it the way it was because it was not hurting anything but since it was so easy to fix I went ahead and took care of it. Both computers with 13.10 have been problem free for the week or so they have been running it and they both really run nice. I have no complaints and even my Windows using wife has not complained!

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by altair4 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:15 am

Hardly a "throw away" anymore...my experience has been similar to exploder's as he outlined above..
Here's a current example of why I called these non-LTS versions throw aways:

There is a bug in 13.10 and a bug report about it was submitted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1240686

The bug was declared "Fixed" but the patch was released for the as yet unreleased 14.04 version of Ubuntu and not the version of Ubuntu that the bug was addressing..

Now this type of behavior isn't new for Ubuntu as that sort of thing happens all the time. What is different and perhaps too nuanced for some is the way they have now institutionalized this reluctance to support previous or in this case current releases:
Note that backporting non-Critical fixes to Saucy will likely be a low priority for Ubuntu developers, as it is only supported for 9 months.
We can debate if screwing up umask is a critical or a non-critical bug but it would appear that if you want it fixed wait for the LTS. If you don't have the resources to maintain the current release ( and that is a legitimate issue ) then you might as well shorten the support horizon since we all know that it won't be supported anyway.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:38 am

Every distro will have bugs...even linux mint (in that case bugs from ubuntu and bugs from the mint modifications)...that is just the way it is...so many things are reported, it just takes time (sometimes) for certain things to get fixed...for example, a bug developed in Ubuntu 12.04 (an LTS) that did not get fixed until 13.10!
(It was when you adjusted the acceleration of the touchpad mouse, it didn't lock in...it would go back to the default as soon as you closed the setting window)...
That was a gnome fix which had to filter into ubuntu (but even gnome took quite a long time to get to it)...

Something we just live with using linux which doesn't prevent me from wanting to use the latest version which often has lots of other improvements and refinements :)

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:35 pm

I find most Ubuntu releases pretty sloppy... lol

Linux Mint is kind of like Ubuntu for sane people... xD

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:36 pm

hoppimike wrote:I find most Ubuntu releases pretty sloppy... lol

Linux Mint is kind of like Ubuntu for sane people... xD
sloppy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:42 pm

Brahim wrote:
hoppimike wrote:I find most Ubuntu releases pretty sloppy... lol

Linux Mint is kind of like Ubuntu for sane people... xD
sloppy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ubuntu redefines sloppy hehe

It reminds me of Google's mess with YouTube...

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MartyMint » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:43 pm

hoppimike wrote:I find most Ubuntu releases pretty sloppy... lol

What do you mean "sloppy"?

Be precise. I'd like your definition, please.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:44 pm

:lol: :lol: Read here on the Steam community [url]http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864976115270412215[/url]/ an article called" Ubuntu 13.10 its time to Jump Ship and swim so Linux Mint? or Kubuntu? " :D
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:56 pm

It's sad to see Ubuntu going this way. I remember back in the days of Karmic and before it was a wonderful, natural-looking, exciting new OS full of promise and a real alternative to the over-commercialised, greedy and "cold" (business-like) other operating systems such as OSX and Windows.

But... look at it now :(

I don't LOATHE Unity, I just think it's sad. Am I the only one who misses the earthy, natural, old Ubuntu with a cool login screen that played the bongos? hehe :)

It was mega awesome and I feel they've completely lost touch of what the project was supposed to be in the first place, at least according to my understanding. Sad.

Anyway erm, MartyMint, by sloppy I mainly mean how overly-complicated and convoluted and unfinished the Unity desktop is, but also how it seems to lack the layer of polish present in Mint.

Might be down to personal preference, I dunno.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:08 pm

That what I wrote long time ago [url]http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=129246[/url]
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:34 pm

Good thread, dude.

It's hard to know what to make of it all, really.

Back about 7 years ago or something I first tried Ubu and loved it. Then skip ahead, Karmic Koala was probably the release I got most excited about simply due to timing, and I downloaded it on the day, helped to seed it, etc.

By the complete change of appearance in Lucid Lynx I noticed things were changing but to be honest I welcomed the departure of the over-use of brown. However, I now realise that I prefer a green/brown "earthy" look, as I've said. Modern Ubuntu looks cold, like the other OSs.

I mean, to be fair, all this going on doesn't really matter for as long as we have other highly competitive (in terms of quality and appeal) Linux distributions such as Mint in particular, but also Mageia, Fedora, openSUSE etc.

If Ubuntu does try to crack down on Mint, we should drive a push for more donations and community support for the distro at least while it bounces back, I think :)

Not saying the Mint devs haven't got this thought through and covered (maybe they do!) but hey like, every little helps, right? ^_^

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by sammiev » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:58 am

I used Mint and loved it, got a few bugs and moved on to other better OS. I still test per alpha or RC releases of Ubuntu and have a new main OS which is other than Ubuntu at this time. I stopped using Mint due to bugs and OS bashing. Suggest a few folks here get a life! Most forums Admin/Mods would have closed a thread like this for bashing other OS.
OpenSUSE has been very kind to me. :D

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by MALsPa » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:48 am

sammiev wrote:I stopped using Mint due to bugs and OS bashing.
I had issues with these two things as well. Mint's a fine distro, but it's no more perfect than any other distro. It certainly hasn't been immune to bugginess, in my experience. The Ubuntu/Unity bashing here -- childish and ridiculous, in my opinion. In the end, both Mint and Ubuntu can be great to use, and in either case I think the good far outweighs the bad.

@exploder: Enjoyed reading your posts in this thread! I think that I recall that you had a good amount of trouble with Ubuntu on your hardware in the past. Looks like that's ancient history! I've read lots of comments written by Linux folks who think that Unity would be a turn-off for folks new to Linux, but it seems that your experiences with family members using Unity run counter to that thought. I'm still using Unity in 12.04 so I haven't seen what's new about it, but I've been fine with Unity all along (by the way, I think that Cinnamon's coming along nicely too -- had a chance to play around with Cinnamon 2.0 in Mint 16 this weekend). Anyway, refreshing to read your comments -- thanks! I'm looking forward to 14.04!

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:43 am

Seeing all the ubuntu bashing in various threads (including this one) makes me kind of glad i left mint and went back to ubuntu...since the introduction of unity, Ubuntu has become one of the most polished and great looking linux distros i have ever seen...it's the only one that has a shot at competing on a commercial level with windows and mac...and it brings so many new people over to linux...

To the bashers here: HELLO....MINT IS UBUNTU (with some modifications) Clem doesn't sprinkle magic fairy dust on Mint and it suddenly has no longer has any relation to ubuntu...if you despise ubuntu so much you should not use anything that is built on it...rather hypocritical i think...

And as far as that recent issue (about licensing)...it just so happens Ubuntu and Linux Mint are working TOGETHER to resolve that...
You don't see mint bashing going on the ubuntu forums....only ubuntu bashing on the mint forums...and to those that do, as was previously mentioned:
TIME TO GROW UP :roll: I think it's a darn shame, really...

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:20 am

Guys come on, relax we're only posting our opinions. I also dislike OSX and 8, and enjoy 7, XP, Android, KDE distros and much more. Not everyone can enjoy everything and different people will inevitably have different views, especially because many come to Mint due to being disillusioned with Ubuntu.

If you like Ubuntu then great - you should use it! I'm not trying to get rid of it or trying to win over its users, I'm just posting my opinion, and also my thoughts on how to benefit my preferred distro.

Relax :)

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:02 am

Relax guys we are only criticizing Ubuntu 13.10 :D Don't take things too seriously cause that would be childich! Ubuntu is great and I dual boot it with Mint on my PC but we were disappointed with the latest version! Tha's all guys! I invite you to smoke some shisha pipe :lol: :lol:


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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:12 am

Brahim wrote:Relax guys we are only criticizing Ubuntu 13.10 :D Don't take things too seriously cause that would be childich! Ubuntu is great and I dual boot it with Mint on my PC but we were disappointed with the latest version! Tha's all guys! I invite you to smoke some shisha pipe :lol: :lol:


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Oh, I was talking about all post-Karmic Ubuntu releases haha, or at least the ones with Unity!

But yeah deffo, it's about opinions. Nothing wrong with expressing them, it's not like we mean any harm we're just sharing viewpoints :)

Ultimately it's constructive, as it helps developers - of Mint and Ubuntu alike - to understand their users better. Every OS has negative criticism, even Mint!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Ubuntu_9.10.png

I preferred that kind of style. With a nice natural-looking login screen, no Unity, etc!

What would be AMAZING is a classic Ubuntu -style theme for Mint (but with still only one bar at the bottom of the screen as normal). I would looooove that!
Last edited by hoppimike on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by Brahim Salem » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:17 am

Yes I guess you are right but Ubuntu shouldn't pick at Mint because UBuntu inself is based on Debian and it uses its binary packages!! :D But these guys are mad at us!They are hypersensitive! I have criticized Mint 14 and still think it is a bad release but hey I'mstill using Mint and I like it :D
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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by hoppimike » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:28 am

Brahim wrote:Yes I guess you are right but Ubuntu shouldn't pick at Mint because UBuntu inself is based on Debian and it uses its binary packages!! :D But these guys are mad at us!They are hypersensitive! I have criticized Mint 14 and still think it is a bad release but hey I'mstill using Mint and I like it :D
Does Ubuntu use the Debian repos? Or just the .debs from them on its own repos? :shock:

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Re: Saucy Salamander is a fiasco: The worst Ubuntu release e

Post by craig10x » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:01 am

Ok guys...but try not to be so mean when talking about ubuntu :wink:

I have to tell you...i have worked with ubuntu and ubuntu based distros like mint for example and ubuntu does a lot to the debian stuff and refines it quite a bit...i saw the difference when i used debian based distros...i don't think you guys realize how good you have it with this being ubuntu based!

I started with ubuntu (8.04) my first linux distro...i always liked it but i wasn't crazy about it's original layout (you know, 2 panels with fan out menu) so i looked around and discovered and switched to mint because i liked the lower panel and mint slab style menu...but unity brought me back to ubuntu as i also like docks (having spent about a year with the mac after leaving windows but before discovering linux) Actually i like Mac a lot but what i didn't like was being locked in to their high priced hardware...Linux seemed like the perfect solution because i could buy a 17" laptop for $500, wipe off windows and install linux on it instead :D

Sure beats spending $1000-$2000 for a Mac... :lol:

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