Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

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hoppimike
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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hoppimike »

dee - Very interesting info, thanks!

I think Canonical deserve to have a wake-up call of some description. I wouldn't prefer a world without Ubuntu, but right now they're just acting like they're untouchable and it's great that the GPL seems to have us covered here.

Amazing that Red Hat and Novell haven't violated it in the past? Or have they come close?

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by craig10x »

One last comment...as i mentioned dee loves to stir up the pot...why is it unfair for Canonical to put restrictions on Linux Mint when it comes (specifically) to say approaching other commercial ventures...for example: if mint wanted to do a mint based computer for a commercial company, they are using ubuntu as major part of their distro and let's say Canonical was in negotiation with the same company...so why should mint be able to compete for the contract and perhaps get it over Canonical when they are using Canonical's base??? C'mon....fair is fair...Open Source or not...Canonical doesn't interfere with the freedom of anyone using their stuff in an "Open Source" manner they are only trying to protect the COMMERCIAL INTERESTS aspect of their distro...

So what Dee does is try to make Canonical out to be some kind of bad guys because they want to protect the COMMERCIAL side of their interests..

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by KBD47 »

Dee has it targeted correctly. It is about control and Ubuntu getting between Mint and OEMs. I don't see that as a tolerable situation. And I expect it to get worse because Mint has grown so popular. Mint needs to cut the cord themselves. This 8 month support cycle with no upgrade path sucks anyway. Mint made its own desktop, be great to see it free of Canonical altogether.

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hoppimike »

Craig - Whether that is true or not, if they're violating the GPL then they're violating the GPL.

KBD - I've never used Mint for long enough on the trot to run into that upgrade problem - are the only ways to avoid that to use the LTS version or the Debian Edition? And Ubuntu has an upgrade option for every release but Mint doesn't because they favour the reliability of reinstalls? Or have I got something wrong?

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by KBD47 »

hoppimike, I have Mint LTS on my wife's computer. A family member is giving me another laptop and I was thinking last night what to put on it, will likely use Kubuntu so it can be upgraded to the next LTS. I can't see using regular Mint except LTS. Unless I'm just playing around with it on an extra computer. I like Mint Debian, but it needs much more love and attention. Maybe it will get it if Ubuntu keeps causing Mint grief.

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hoppimike
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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hoppimike »

KBD47 wrote:hoppimike, I have Mint LTS on my wife's computer. A family member is giving me another laptop and I was thinking last night what to put on it, will likely use Kubuntu so it can be upgraded to the next LTS. I can't see using regular Mint except LTS. Unless I'm just playing around with it on an extra computer. I like Mint Debian, but it needs much more love and attention. Maybe it will get it if Ubuntu keeps causing Mint grief.
Yeah here's an easy source of the info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint#Releases

(I should have checked that before lol)

LTSs seem a very good option for most people. The next LTS should be fantastic, due to the growing maturity of Cinnamon.

I've never used LMDE... is it really that "rough around the edges"?

Oh, this answers my previous questions too:
4. How does LMDE compare to the Ubuntu-based editions?

Pros:
  • You don’t need to ever re-install the system.
  • New versions of software and updates are continuously brought to you.
  • It’s faster and more responsive than Ubuntu-based editions.
Cons:
  • LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
  • Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.
  • No EFI, GPT or secureBoot support.
http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php


Well, I feel silly. haha


EDIT -- Also, Clem says different... he says/said it's 18 months and it is possible (but not recommended) to do upgrades: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2

I'm confused haha, I'm not going to try to understand all of it xD

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by wenchkin »

It's great that this is amicable between Mint and Canonical now, but I wonder if it might be worth starting a transition to either another base or building one for Mint. Even as a side project. I know there's Debian, that would probably be my fallback for Mint if it comes to it. I just don't want Mint held back in any way by some Canonical license. Fair enough to say "host your own repos" but a license just feels wrong. Especially if they are violating the GPL in issuing said license. I hope someone challenges this if it's true. More so if this holds Mint back in any way commercially. I don't want Ubuntu on any mobile devices I own, but I'll be really sad if Mint can't branch out just as far. The Mint team have put in their work, if they want to take Mint in other directions I want them free to do that. Mint is the one distro I do want on all my devices too.

I'm curious if this approach from Canonical has gone to all the other Ubuntu based distros too, and their responses.

Wenchy

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by craig10x »

@hoppimike: I have been finding that ubuntu upgrades work VERY well...i do them using the iso installer's option to upgrade and it's fast...that's why, for myself, i don't mind the 6 months on the interim releases (non-LTS) since it is so easy to upgrade and all the extra work i have to do in putting my saved data (on an external drive) and programs installed, is eliminated...

Oh, i do lose a few items (Chrome, MS Fonts which are license agreement programs and PPAs) but everything else comes through beautifully, including all my settings, installed programs and data... :D
Saves a big bunch of work for me...

This is an option you don't really have on mint, unfortunately (at least not reliably, anyway)...which is probably why Clem doesn't highly recommend that route on here...You see, because Upgrades work best (and most reliably) on systems that have not been heavily modified, and of course, Linux Mint is by default, heavily modified...It's another reason i now stay with Ubuntu...I certainly enjoyed my years with mint while ubuntu had a desktop i wasn't very fond of...now that it has one that i am fond of, i am in "linux heaven" :lol:

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hoppimike »

craig10x wrote:@hoppimike: I have been finding that ubuntu upgrades work VERY well...i do them using the iso installer's option to upgrade and it's fast...that's why, for myself, i don't mind the 6 months on the interim releases (non-LTS) since it is so easy to upgrade and all the extra work i have to do in putting my saved data (on an external drive) and programs installed, is eliminated...

Oh, i do lose a few items (Chrome, MS Fonts which are license agreement programs and PPAs) but everything else comes through beautifully, including all my settings, installed programs and data... :D
Saves a big bunch of work for me...

This is an option you don't really have on mint, unfortunately (at least not reliably, anyway)...which is probably why Clem doesn't highly recommend that route on here...You see, because Upgrades work best (and most reliably) on systems that have not been heavily modified, and of course, Linux Mint is by default, heavily modified...It's another reason i now stay with Ubuntu...I certainly enjoyed my years with mint while ubuntu had a desktop i wasn't very fond of...now that it has one that i am fond of, i am in "linux heaven" :lol:
So... why are you on the Mint forums if you prefer Ubuntu?

I left the Ubuntu forums and joined the Mint forums because I realised I preferred Mint, and so all my time on the Ubu forums was spent going on about Mint haha

So... why don't you just chat to other Ubu fans? I'm not trying to make people leave it's just... I think that people should be on the appropriate forum for their interests! Like I wouldn't join a Windows forum and start going on about Linux lol :)

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by craig10x »

Well, of course, some of my ubuntu friends in that forum are also active here, so i check in with them here as well every once in a while...but usually i am much more active on the ubuntu forums then i am here...probably only because of some of the "hot button" issues i have been reading here lately has prompted me to make so many posts...usually i only post here occasionally...though i do like to read some of the threads here because i find them interesting :wink:

I do occasionally read some of the windows forums too...even though i haven't used windows for several years...like to keep up on what is happening i guess :D

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hexdef101 »

Hoppimike: I have no doubt that Ubuntu is popular. That said I think they are loosing their User-base and Popularity due to Unity. Not to mention the fact that they are becoming way too much like the major OEM's in their Business Model. I tried Ubuntu on more then one occasion, and found them wanting. I think Mint can and should actively compete against them in a more aggressive manner.

Dee: Not completely familiar with all of the intricacies of the GPLv3 license myself, thanks for posting the details.

Craig10x: You sound way too similar to the Apple Fanboys of the 90's when it comes to your support of Canonical. :P I disagree with your belief that Mint is nothing without Canonical. And your opinion in this matter is next to worthless. While its a good thing that the two parties are currently amicable, that can change at the drop of a dime. If Canonical keeps attempting to push Mint around, There are quite a few of us willing to push back. Sooner or later Canonical will make an epic mistake. Please, just go back across the mountains to the comforting embrace of your masters in the Empire. :lol:

HoppiMike: Welcome to Mint, We welcome defectors from the Empire here in the Rogue State 8)
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Brahim Salem
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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by Brahim Salem »

I think Mint can and should actively compete against them in a more aggressive manner.
I totally agree with you my friend Linux Mint is very passive when it comes to competition!

HoppiMike: Welcome to Mint, We welcome defectors from the Empire here in the Rogue State
Our friend HoppiMike is a rebel and very pragmatic :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by hoppimike »

haha thanks dudes :)

Craig - It's totally cool if you want to post here but... it's a bit silly don't you think to go on about how great you think Ubu is on a Mint forum? I for one am happy with Mint and prefer it to Ubuntu, which is why I am on the Linux Mint forum!

hexdef - I agree that Unity is a clumsy desktop and they are being too aggressive. But I'm not sure if Mint being aggressive (other than to defend themselves against Canonical) is a good idea. People should just do what they love and enjoy it. No need to fight unless it's in self-defense, right?

Brahim - Thanks dude! haha :)

Also, Mint is passive but... doing pretty darn well anyway!!! DistroWatch loves Mint!

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Nilla Wafer
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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by Nilla Wafer »

hoppimike wrote: So... why are you on the Mint forums if you prefer Ubuntu?
What? The two forums share a lot of the same users because:
1 - Mint is built on Ubuntu
2 - Ubuntu forums are way more active than Mint forums
3 - Many technical issues on Mint are addressed quickly on Ubuntu's forums
4 - Many of us love both distros and participate in both communities.
I left the Ubuntu forums and joined the Mint forums because I realised I preferred Mint, and so all my time on the Ubu forums was spent going on about Mint haha
I never felt the need to abandon the Ubuntu community when I switched to Mint. I have made some friends there and our friendship doesn't depend on what distro we use or what we think of the other distro, it's users, it's developers, etc.
So... why don't you just chat to other Ubu fans? I'm not trying to make people leave it's just... I think that people should be on the appropriate forum for their interests!
There are plenty of us Mint fans on Ubuntu's forums and plenty of us Ubuntu fans here. The two distros are siblings, and your invitation for Ubuntu users to leave is crass, insensitive, and rude.

The title of this thread suggests that the controversy began as a request from Canonical to help defray the cost of the repositories they share. Then it blew up into this mountain of "how dare they." To me it's comparable to the 40-year-old freeloader living in his parents' basement getting upset when his parents ask him to pitch in a little.

Mint and Ubuntu have always enjoyed a friendly relationship despite some of their users treating the two more like rivals than siblings. I'm an Ubuntu fan, and I'm a Mint fan, and I'm not going away.

~nilla

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Re: Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint

Post by exploder »

This is getting out of hand. Thread locked.

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