[Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

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jungle_boy
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by jungle_boy »

I keep W7 to run Autocad and trackmaker for my GPS device.
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brainout
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by brainout »

Wow, I can't resist replying to this. Here's the real scoop: Linux needs Windows, and Windows needs Linux. It's a symbiosis, really.

Windows can't do a lot of things well. Linux can't do a lot of things well, but has made tremendous strides in the past few years, especially Mint. So frankly they need each other. Windows needs Linux for file management, cloning, backup, partitioning, rescuing files when Windows crashes (as it will, so long as Microsoft updates are continuing). Windows needs Linux for dual-monitor recording, for DVD writing (even Win7 cannot do it well and Win8 disables DVD writing absent a lot of tweaking, and apparently Win10 will have these same flaws). Windows needs Linux most of all for mass copying, since if you try to copy big folders in Windows, it will unaccountably quit (really, because it found a read-only sys file or some other unknown thing and it interprets that as the whole folder being forbidden to copy). Xcopy in Windows helps somewhat, but not enough. :evil:

And Linux is faster. Most of all, cloning: a clone is a live exact replica of your hard drive (therefore BOOTABLE, and if cloned back to an internal drive makes your machine alive again); and now gods be praised, Mint has Clonezilla which can be installed inside it (I can't get it to run yet, but will, and it must run in terminal) -- so you can plug a Linux stick or external drive into your Windows machine and then clone the whole thing while remaining in Mint. Or, just boot with Clonezilla and clone 70 GB in 20 mins, even at 2.0 (much faster, if the media and the port are both 3.0 usb). Clonezilla has saved my XP and Win7 machines so many times, I've lost count.

My fav is this: I installed Mint 13 and 17 on external drives AND sticks -- not that LiveUSB farce, but a permanent install, rather than to internal hard drive -- and whenever I want to run any of the sticks/externals on any of my (now) 19 Windows machines, I just plug one of these portable puppies into a usb port.. and boot. Wonderful. Computer in your pocket. Anywhere, anytime, from Atom or Celeron to latest i7, it just WORKS. Windows 8 tries to compete with that, big fail.

Of course, allegations of how unsafe Windows, but Linux is safer to run, are legendary. And frankly, overstated. If you spend all your time online and looking at **** or hate-speech websites, downloading freeware coming from god-knows-where, yeah you'll get infected with Windows. Else, no. The tradeoff is you wrestle with permissions every five minutes in Linux: at some point you have to ask is the downtime wrestling with permissions and elaborate workarounds the same amount of time lost if your PC did get infected...

For Linux desperately needs Windows too. Yes, somehow and someday I might get Wine to work under Mint (now that I know how it's supposed to work, having gotten it to work in PCLinuxOS this past weekend), and thus the installation of MS Office 2003 or 2007 (the versions compatible with Wine, and 2003 is hands-down superior to all later MS Office iterations). But notice: you NEED those Windows programs, there is NOTHING even remotely comparable in Linux (nor, any longer, even in WordPerfect for Linux or Windows). None of the Office programs in the repositories are any good. For mild and light letter writing or calculations, yeah: else, for real business use, no.

There are other Windows programs which have no valid Linux equivalents, like TuneUp Utilities, GoBack (which won't run in Win7), and above all, Windows has a far more intuitive system of naming directories and files, drives. So maybe a virtual machine, maybe (better still) have Linux on a stick or hard drive NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT dual boot -- so Linux can take advantage of Windows superior programs, file structure and drive naming, yet access Windows files and programs to the extent Wine or a VM can run them.

So Linux is indeed Windows' best friend, and I'll keep on repeating that fact on the internet until someone pops me. But frankly it's also true that Windows is Linux' best friend. Linux is NOT ready for prime time as a sole OS, but thanks to Mint it's getting very close. Even so, the long trail of past programs in Windows which Linux could then 'umbrella' and use, is a huge boon. And in the next 10 years, if it seeks and becomes 'umbrella' rather than 'replacement', then EVERYONE ON EARTH will want it. Especially, MInt. At least, that's how it should go.

Whew and Yikes. Shutting up now. Thank you for putting up with me. :oops:
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by scryan »

I still have windows because...

Its not a competition. You don't get bonus points.
Its about using the best tool for the job. Most the time for me thats linux but sometimes things are built for windows, and they will work better if you use windows.

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by Shunjoss »

brainout wrote:So Linux is indeed Windows' best friend, and I'll keep on repeating that fact on the internet until someone pops me. But frankly it's also true that Windows is Linux' best friend. Linux is NOT ready for prime time as a sole OS, but thanks to Mint it's getting very close.
The first time I installed Linux i was tired of windows OS, so wiped all that windows shit to install Linux mint 17. That was awesome, I thought wine will be perfect to runs games and Kile for my writing job...
I discovered the hard way that we still need Windows at one point or another. For the little annoying thing you use twice a year but you really need it, and softwares (like games) only designed to run on windows os (yet).
The majority don't use Windows by choice. Plus windows is not really what I call a good OS, there is no real update manager (built-in) : you can't update your apps all together you have to check like one by one and some soft offer only the possibility to update with their site. You have bad installer with ads or crapware in it see sourceforge's idea or chrome (every installer wants you to install chrome). NTFS is like a 23 year old technologie having hard time to manage more than 4GB files, also with high fragmentation rates.
On newer hardware i have a better compatibility with Linux than on windows 8 during installation process (no internet + no graphic card only intelHD)

I'm not an anti-microsoft i use bing and outlook web and sydrive sometimes MS office this is good (at least for me).
All that to say, we still need windows in peculiar moment for specific job, application, games or software not available (yet) on linux counterpart. And I agree with your last post, Linux is also used to repair windows a lot.
Linux mint is awesome.

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killer de bug
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by killer de bug »

brainout wrote: Linux is NOT ready for prime time as a sole OS, but thanks to Mint it's getting very close.
Strange because I only use Linux and don't need Windows at all. I can do everything without problems... Therefore your statement seems wrong. :roll:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by coder123 »

ClutchDisc wrote:I only keep windows around for my college classes.. I don't mean because I need it for software, (I do all of my classes on Linux) but because I need to stay familiar with windows... Yea, that is the worst part about going into the IT field.. you have to learn and deal with windows! :( :evil: :twisted:

If I didn't need it for that purpose I would be M$ free!
Same here. I'm afraid of running into an issue where I need windows for school and therefore I dual-boot for my main laptop. I wiped windows off one machine and replaced completely with mint because of a virus that wouldn't go away no matter how much scanning was done. lol If it wasn't for games I'd completely overwrite my desktop with mint. I'm itching to wipe windows off my main laptop but I want to talk my CS professor about it. (because of compilers for future classes)
Linux and most of it's apps are the way it should be for the individual user. Free and and open source. And then there's Redhat for businesses that want to use Linux.

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by Fred Barclay »

How about Windows in a virtual machine?

I've got Vista that's running quite well, and I'm setting up 10IP.
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brainout
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by brainout »

killer de bug wrote:
brainout wrote: Linux is NOT ready for prime time as a sole OS, but thanks to Mint it's getting very close.
Strange because I only use Linux and don't need Windows at all. I can do everything without problems... Therefore your statement seems wrong. :roll:
Do you run a business? If not, then of course it seems wrong. Every business has to use Windows programs of one kind or another, because that's the way businesses work. It's been true for over 20 years now. For example, in my business, I have to get Wine working properly, and Dosbox, for MS Office 2003 and Lotus 123 (used worldwide and by the US Government, still, every law firm, financial organization, and accountant). There are many more programs a big business needs. So to move to Linux isn't enough.

I'm not trashing Linux. I'm just being honest about the fact it's not ready for prime time, and that's really a very common opinion all over the world. It has made great strides, and does many things better than Windows can do.. but not yet, the core things businesses use Windows for. So it cannot replace Windows, but is indeed Windows' best friend. Especially, Mint.

EDIT, 8:17 am Friday central US time: woo hoo! Wine's installing MS Office 2003 on Mint!!! I've been trying to get it to do this for several years! Here's the trick, follow the steps in this link, yayayayayayayay -- http://www.howtogeek.com/171565/how-to- ... -on-linux/ The example there is for a different MS Office (unmentionable imo), but the steps are the same for any version. And, for other programs.

You can also change themes to match your windows themes, but in Mint the procedure is harder, steps are here: https://vimeo.com/groups/pcworldalumni/ ... pic:266067

Thank you for your patience!
Last edited by brainout on Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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daveinuk
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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by daveinuk »

I have my copy of XP still, but now safely jailed, inside VB, where it belongs.

I neither like or need MS any longer, I posses no iPhoney's that 'need' windows as I have a Jolla, that runs Linux, not googley android, but Sailfish OS ;)

I despise the spying, data gathering/selling/mining lark and put my money where my mouth is, and vote with my wallet, and I am fortunate enough not to have any
' need ' in my life whereby I have no choice but to use MS or Apple products, so I don't, and life's never been simpler or more hassle free and I love it :lol:

Occasionally, I boot windows in VB, for a laugh, to look at the mess that ensues on boot, and to remind me how good life really is, then I poke a stick at it a few times, laughing, and taunting it . . . . . . . . then I shut it down :wink:

Boot into mint, 3 - 2 - 1 . . . . . and I'm back in the room . . . . . .

lol

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by z31fanatic »

scryan wrote:I still have windows because...

Its not a competition. You don't get bonus points.
Its about using the best tool for the job. Most the time for me thats linux but sometimes things are built for windows, and they will work better if you use windows.
Very well said.

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by mike acker »

brainout wrote:{snip}
Every business has to use Windows programs of one kind or another, because that's the way businesses work. It's been true for over 20 years now. {snip}Thank you for your patience!
2d!

for example: a hospital might be running Epic or Cerner, etc. a small business might be running Quickbooks or something. and there's Peoplesoft... The vendors for this stuff are going to specify which OS to run if you want support,-- and you better have support in a business environemnt,-- calling GhostBusters won't help much... ....however,-- this article (ZD Net) estimates that hacking will cost the global economy $2T by 2019

in the end only COST will result in change. right now we have a monumental disaster on our hands-- as far as hacking and spying goes. and the COSTS are piling up. Change has to come.

there are two fundamental requirements:
  • use a secure os. a secure os is one which will not allow itself to be corrupted by the activity of an application program.
  • authenticate messages, including eMail, software transmittals, Forms 1040, etc
Secure Computing in a Compromised Environment

the cold hard facts are on the board: all of our traditional identification: name, address, social security number, date of birth, dog's name &c -- are all "pwned" -- owned in the "Dark Net" and for sale on sites like "Superget" -- to facilitate fraud

we need a better way. a means of authenticating a document -- without compromising the key -- as we have been doing in the past by using SSAN, DoB etc

Suggested Reading Newegg trial: Crypto legend takes the stand, goes for knockout patent punch in partiicular, read the section on "A brief history of public-key crypto"

in this section you will find this:
There was one other big need: proving authenticity.

"The receiver of the document can come into court with the signed document and prove to a judge that the document is legitimate," he said. "That person can recognize the signature but could not have created the signature."
in the authentication department we will all need to learn to use public key encryption. it isn't hard, particularly when presented as "packaged technology",-- for example the ENIGMAIL plug-in for Thunderbird.

I do see one glitch on the table though: we will need a means by which we can all get our Public Keys authenticated easily. For this I suggest that this could be a service offered by local Credit Unions and Banks. They are already required to verify our identities; they could easily sign and upload keys for us as part of their regular services.
Last edited by mike acker on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: [Chat] Still keep a Windows? Speak out your reason

Post by Reorx »

Yeah, at work, I run few a applications that don't have Linux versions and don't play well with wine or crossover or WinXP running under VB...

At home, the only thing I use windoze for is to update my Garmin GPS maps. The software to do this is proprietary and is a free D/L from Garmin. They do not make a Linux version and, considering my experience with other "standard" methods of running win progs on Linux, I didn't even try! Fortunately, I only update maps once or twice a year. :mrgreen:
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