Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:32 pm
I use mint withoug ever using command line. only problem is I cannot use my canon printer to print so i have no print ability.
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Is it really such a big deal? Waste of the world resources?summerday8 wrote:Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.
Seems to me that to get something you have to give something. You spend some time learning to use Linux, you'll end up with a lot more time on your hands down the road than if you stuck with Windows. At least that's what happened here, so the initial time investment has paid off. My two cents.summerday8 wrote:I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).
Have you tried the drivers under http://www.tuboprint.info ? I know they are proprietary, but they work really well.GrayWizardLinux wrote:I use mint withoug ever using command line. only problem is I cannot use my canon printer to print so i have no print ability.
Let's look at this on a more even playing field a bit closer. Try installing Linux, Windows and Mac OSs, out of the box, onto a given piece of generic equipment. Then tell me with a straight face which comes the closest to "just install and use." You will most likely find that neither the Windows nor the Mac install will even function correctly without hunting down firmware and drivers and installing and configuring them. Then you will still have to purchase additional software to do the common tasks that most expect from a desktop. And don't forget finding and downloading all the codecs and misc. players for multi-media too. After several hours, even for an experienced installer, and several hundred more dollars over and above the cost of the OS itself, you will have a functioning bare bones system, maybe.Summerday8 I understand how you feel. You just want an OS you can just install and use. Me too. I discovered linux in 1998 and felt it wasn't ready to take on the big boys.
Be thankful for small favors.Ten years on it's still no Mac OS nor windbloz.
I hope it is never fully point-and-click. The CLI is a very powerful feature. To give it up would not in any way be a plus, but a giant step backward. Both GUI's and text on a CLI have their uses. You can do some things from the CLI with a line of text much faster and more efficiently than from a GUI. In fact there are many things that you can't, and won't ever be able to do from a GUI that are relatively easy from the CLI.It might not be fully point-n-click for another 10 years.
I've only been around linux for about 3-4 weeks. I cannot understand how you could have tried out so many different distros in one week. That's almost like suicide. To learn something well, give it a fair shake, and become familiar enough with it to give a good judgment of it one needs to have learned more than you could have possibly learned in one week "test-driving" so many distros. In my book it's like going to a car lot picking out ten cars, taking each for a 5 minute drive and then picking one based on that 5 minute drive. You probably won't get a fair estimation of what you just bought. And had you put more time into it you probably would have come out with the better choice. Just my two cents worth. I've tried Ubuntu for 2-3 weeks. Now I'm using Mint. The reason I switched was because I was having some issues with some multimedia stuff. Well Mint resolved that for me. I have no plans of switching again.summerday8 wrote:I write this just to hope that my opinion may contribute to the Linux development.
I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly. The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE (still a lot of aspects to improve). The following worth mentioning:
I have to admit that as a new user command line was a bit overwhelming when I needed to use it on Ubuntu. But I also believe that learning a new operating system requires a willingness to learn a new way of doing things. As someone earlier said, the command line is very powerful and should not be done away with. No it's not very comfortable for new users but it's like wearing in a new pair of shoes. The first few days the shoes are stiff and almost painful but the more you wear them the more comfortable they become. It is possible for users (new and old) to learn how to use the command line if they want/need to. For me, it is interesting and I love learning. Using Linux as a former Windows person already puts me on a learning curve anyway. I do not believe it is a waste of time. Do you need it all the time? NO. But it should definitely be available for when you do need it.summerday8 wrote:Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).
Unless you set it up incorrectly you only need your password to log-in or for administrative settings. I think I've had to use my password and such a handful of times (at the most) within any given session. It takes maybe 1 minute.summerday8 wrote:Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.
I do agree that stability should be the standard and I believe that most distributions do try to keep their systems stable. Of course errors and bugs happen. And when compared with Microsofts number of errors, bugs, supposed fixes; I really see a great advantage to using Linux here.summerday8 wrote:In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).
I don't know your situation but I don't even have MS on my computer anymore because Vista crashed it so badly that I cannot reinstall. No switching back and forth for me. And because I'm just a home user I haven't found anything that I cannot run on Linux that I could on Windows.summerday8 wrote:I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).
Best wishes and respect to the Linux developers (the unsung hero!).
Katzedecimal wrote:I've stayed away from this thread because it sounds like such a troll -- honestly, all that distro-hopping in one week? Then a litany of complaints that are pretty darned generic and sound copped off of any Linux-hater's site? -- please If this isn't an outright troll, it's certainly someone who didn't put even a ten-minute Google's worth of research into what they were getting into. If you want your comp to do everything for you, wipe your nose and powder your bum, save up your pennies and buy a Mac -- that's what they're there for.
Posts like this are why I decided that my role as the "I did it, you can too!" ra-ra grrl n00b was justified and necessary. It's why I gave Sarah a set of pom-poms so she can join me on the Mint n00b ra-ra squad Sarah, you're exactly correct, the mindset is the all-important factor. I like that you compare distro-hopping to test-driving cars, I too use cars as a metaphor. If Windows is an automatic, then Linux is a standard. It takes a little more effort to learn to drive, but in the end, you have more control over your vehicle and it squeezes more power out of the engine. But Linux occasionally entails we pop the hood and get our hands dirty in the engine, learn how to change our own oil and air filters. This is why I don't pimp Linux to everybody, but only to people I know actually want to learn to control their computer, people like myself and Sarah. Such people have a very good experience with Mint.
I normally try to be very positive and enthusiastic with n00bs, because I am one myself. But clusers try my patience, I'm sorry
Mint and Ubuntu are the most user friendly, but if you're afraid of getting your hands dirty then don't use linux. Its not for everyone, and may not be for you. Its for people who want to break beyond artificial limitations imposed by a software or hardware quasi-monopoly and actually enjoy freedom with the hardware that has already been purchased. Its not for everyone. Some people are very happy with the level of "function" allowed them by their monopolistic "computer experience provider".summerday8 wrote:It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly.
Odd, but the traffic on distrowatch.com suggests that a lot of people disagree with your assessment and find something else preferrable.The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE
Do not expect Santa Claus to wear a pink tutu. Do not expect the moon to appear in the shape of a parallelogram.Do not expect new user to use Command Line.
Absolutely. If your entire life has been spent with point-and-click, you could have multiple layers of professional certification in MS products and be a total moron when it comes to linux.I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties.
Hah! The "command line is a waste of resources" argument. Its a fallacy.If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources.
Linux isn't a democracy. It is a technocracy. Get over it.Democracy should prevail.
Oddly enough, most common linux distros (including Mint) allow the password to be permenantly bypassed.User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances.
Pretty damn cool the level of activity out there that is devoted to development.I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions
Cool. If I have any questions about baking pastries, I'll be sure to ask. I won't be so presumptious as to assume to dictate to you how to operate a bakery.I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living.
Define "stable". In the context of linux, this is usually taken to mean "a locked feature set".If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable.
Mmmm!I have to go and make my cakes now