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Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:03 am
by Nilla Wafer
ganamant wrote: "Typical users" don't expect to type commands. Too complicated, that's for experts, I'm no geek, I just want to use my computer the easy way so I can get in touch with Susan. And then Mr. Typical User will click (or -- God forbid -- "touch") his way into Facebook somehow, and once there, he will type, he will type away all day long and make Susan happy. Go figure.
I am one of those "typical" users who doesn't expect to type commands, but expects to use the keyboard for applications rather than for maintaining, tweaking, or fixing the OS. The times that I have used the dreaded terminal have been very few and far between. If not for Linux Mint's simple GUI, I would have run right back to Windows!

But I don't think it's just us "typical" users that benefit from the GUI. I have read these forums enough to know that there are plenty of very tech-savvy geeks who prefer to click their way through things instead of using the terminal. I respect the power of the mysterious, foreboding terminal too much to mess around with it without knowing exactly what I'm doing! When I first learned to use a gun I felt exactly the same way. A gun is too powerful to use without knowing what you're doing, potentially lethal to you and to others!

Overcoming my dread of guns took a lot of gentle coaching and patience. I'm glad I did though, and now I'm a pretty good shot with both my pistol and my shotgun. But without the gentle, patient, compassionate coaching of my dad and the instructor, I would have walked away from shooting even knowing that without those skills I would be more vulnerable to "bad guys." The thing for us "typical users" is the lack of gentle, kind, patient coaching and instruction in the use of such a powerful tool as the terminal. OMG, even the name of it is scary: Terminal. As in "The End." "That's All, Folks." "Game Over." The Linux community - and Debian's in particular - is famous for chasing away people who are scared of the terminal. In fact I wonder if we respect it's power more than some geeky people do!

I can use the keyboard to "make Susan happy," but you just have to forgive me if I don't use a "GUN" to make you happy.

~nilla

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:51 pm
by ganamant
@ Nilla

Don't misunderstand me; I have nothing against the GUI or people who use it. I'm a GUI user myself, of course, since I use Mint. Sometimes using the GUI is faster and more efficient than typing in commands, but sometimes the GUI is sluggish and ponderous (if it can do the task at all, that is), while a one-liner in bash or a pipeline of commands do the trick in no time. No geekish snobbism here, just common sense.

As you've pointed out, there's an irrational fear of the command line out there. Come on, it's not some angry god we should fear and respect, but just another tool. It's a tool that can do damage if it's misused, but so can a hammer or a screwdriver. Nothing to be scared of, really. Oh, and you can also break a system beyond recovery just by using GUI tools if you are careless.

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:39 pm
by Fred Barclay
I like Nilla's analogy. :) But I'm definitely a terminal fan. Why spend 5 minutes doing a taskin GUI when I can do it in 45 seconds via terminal.
Besides, I like knowing why things work--sort of like taking a pistol apart to see the spring(s), cam/hammer, etc.--and the terminal gives me a little better look "inside".

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:30 am
by GermanyChris
I really don't think the infamous forums (Arch, Debian, BSD) forums are all that bad there just a bit more bare knuckle and require a bit thicker skin.

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:00 pm
by Fred Barclay
GermanyChris wrote:I really don't think the infamous forums (Arch, Debian, BSD) forums are all that bad there just a bit more bare knuckle and require a bit thicker skin.
Agreed. Especially on Debian forums, I've only gotten 1 "bad" response. Everyone else has been most helpful.
Now I do think that a lot of Debian and Arch users look down on Mint. I can't understand it. Maybe it's a carry-over of the feeling that Ubuntu stole the Debian people's effort? I'm personally not on Mint at the moment (hardware issues) and am using Debian, but I like Mint's simplification of the Linux experience. I might not have too much control (at first) of Mint's appearance and tools, while I can customise Debian from the get-go, but most newbies won't care so much about customisation as they will the distro working "out of the box".

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:16 pm
by GermanyChris
Fred Barclay wrote:
GermanyChris wrote:I really don't think the infamous forums (Arch, Debian, BSD) forums are all that bad there just a bit more bare knuckle and require a bit thicker skin.
Agreed. Especially on Debian forums, I've only gotten 1 "bad" response. Everyone else has been most helpful.
Now I do think that a lot of Debian and Arch users look down on Mint. I can't understand it. Maybe it's a carry-over of the feeling that Ubuntu stole the Debian people's effort? I'm personally not on Mint at the moment (hardware issues) and am using Debian, but I like Mint's simplification of the Linux experience. I might not have too much control (at first) of Mint's appearance and tools, while I can customise Debian from the get-go, but most newbies won't care so much about customisation as they will the distro working "out of the box".
I am an Arch user in the middle of some distro hopping because I got a new portable. I'm using LMDE2 and little niggles are starting to add up that will probably drive me away but I'm still hanging out for the time being. When your frame of reference is communities that are less ??"hippie"?? you tend to take things in stride more I think.

Re: Debian fanaticism

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:36 pm
by Habitual
Fred Barclay wrote:I like Nilla's analogy. :) But I'm definitely a terminal fan. Why spend 5 minutes doing a taskin GUI when I can do it in 45 seconds via terminal.
Besides, I like knowing why things work--sort of like taking a pistol apart to see the spring(s), cam/hammer, etc.--and the terminal gives me a little better look "inside".
Under the hood is where it is at!

On topic, signed up at forums.debian but I have yet and may not post any thing there.
I see the same "fervent enthusiasm" everywhere, usually just opposite of the terminal-phobes.