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Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:02 pm
by English Invader
MartyMint wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:...hounded and forced or tricked or shamed...
Excuse me but...where did this happen?
I suppose there is an element of emotional blackmail involved when a person chooses to give no money and the same price comparison says "Nothing. Use Ubuntu for free".

And things like "put your money where your mouth is" are less than respectful.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:04 pm
by CtrlAltDel
MartyMint wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:...hounded and forced or tricked or shamed...
Excuse me but...where did this happen?
Rigging open source software, such as Rhythmbox and countless others to feed you ads is a trick. People don't expect that to happen. When it comes to that point, they should simply charge for the "apps" and make them ad free. Naturally, if you can make use of the same software without having it rigged to panhandle you, you will do so and many Ubuntu users are leaving in droves.

When you have to dig down into the annals of "agreements" to determine that Dash is selling off your personal information to the highest bidders in order to target you, it's a trick. A very integral part of Unity is nothing more than an information collector in partnership with companies that target you to beg for more money.

When users of Linux have been brainwashed into telling other users of Linux that they should be ashamed or feel bad that you don't donate, you have been shamed. I choose to use Linux because it is free. If the developers of individual distributions of Linux just can't survive or make ends meet or live a sustainable life without donations, they have bitten off more than they can chew and should reassess things.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:17 pm
by craig10x
Yeah, you're right...everyone who is involved in linux should just get out and abandoned the whole darn thing...who needs linux, anyway...If everyone who is involved in developing linux distros can't invest all their time and get nothing in return, how DARE they be involved in it?

Well, that's your way if thinking, it would seem...i am out of posting on this thread...you've got pretty weird ideas my friend...good luck to you...hope you get better...

Also, if you are using the ubuntu based version of mint...better remove it and burn any isos you have of it...By the way, in case you haven't notice...clem gets donations from users here and also runs ads on the forums to generate revenue, so how come you are even hanging out here and using THIS distro??? :shock:

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:47 pm
by CtrlAltDel
Yeah, you're right...everyone who is involved in linux should just get out and abandoned the whole darn thing...who needs linux, anyway...If everyone who is involved in developing linux distros can't invest all their time and get nothing in return, how DARE they be involved in it?
Maybe they should not invest all their time; that is an idea. If you can't buy food for your family and pay your bills because you invest all your time into something that is supposed to be free, back off a little bit, take a breath.
Well, that's your way if thinking, it would seem...i am out of posting on this thread...you've got pretty weird ideas my friend...good luck to you...hope you get better...
There is no malady to get over; I have no need to get better.
Also, if you are using the ubuntu based version of mint...better remove it and burn any isos you have of it...By the way, in case you haven't notice...clem gets donations from users here and also runs ads on the forums to generate revenue, so how come you are even hanging out here and using THIS distro??? :shock:
I have not and would never encourage anyone not to donate money out of a desire to reward someone for an endeavor they feel deserves that. You mention this help forum and ads as an example of why I shouldn't be here if I feel like I do. But, the thing is, a forum is not an operating system that I voluntarily install on my computer.

This forum doesn't integrate into the programs I choose to install and feed me ads that are impossible to prevent. It doesn't collect information on me and sell it to multiple organizations in order to put money in the bank. It doesn't track my activities, as far as I know, and report that information to data sharing corporations for a fee.

Have you used Ubuntu lately? Do you know what I am talking about? You can open many open source software programs that Ubuntu did not create and Canonical has modified these programs to bombard you with ads.

I don't want to open Banshee or VLC or Gimp and have ads badgering me within those programs. Maybe you would consider that appropriate but, many do not and are showing it with their feet heading out the door.

You do realize that many of the people fleeing Ubuntu are coming to Mint, correct? Why, because Mint isn't tricking them and using them as revenue sources. Canonical made 30 million dollars in 2009 and no telling how much in each year thereafter due to their wholesale switch to advertising and spam.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:25 pm
by craig10x
I use ubuntu and i do not get ads on open source programs as you claim...also, as much as i am fond of mint (and used it in the past but prefer unity so i went back to ubuntu since it was launched a few years ago) that is not true that tons of people are fleeing ubuntu and coming to mint...mint probably is the 2nd most popular distro but ubuntu has been and will always be #1 in users and probably the ONLY linux distro that may ever have a "shot" at going main stream...

By the way, if you are talking about the amazon ads when you use the dash search in unity...that is just a small generator of revenue for them and it can be shut off in 30 seconds after you install ubuntu (it's in the privacy settings)...I only shut mine off because i don't care for the "clutter" so i send them donations instead...
And just requesting that you make a small donation when downloading ubuntu (which is used for a good cause...it's DEVELOPMENT) is not a biggie in my book but apparently it is a major deal in yours...

Ubuntu (Canonical) is very innovative and they are very ahead of the game....that is why clem uses them for a base, i am sure...

Let me know when you put out your fantastic distro that will have no ads in your support forums and with which you will never ask for a penny in return... :wink:

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:25 pm
by craig10x
dup post

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:18 am
by Pjotr
It's OK when someone doesn't want to give anything back for his free Ubuntu.... It's maybe a bit ungrateful, but it's OK.

However, it becomes irritating when such a person loudly and furiously reacts when he's politely asked to donate to Ubuntu.... :shock:

Furthermore, it's not constructive. As Ubuntu is tremendously important for Mint (after all, Mint is a dwarf standing on the shoulders of the giant Ubuntu), this proverb seems appropriate: don't s*** where you eat.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:03 am
by fraxinus_63
For myself, I am uneasy about some of Ubuntu's practices - the adware, the way they do all they can to avoid calling themselves "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" on their website. I haven't used it for years myself.

That said, the quality and depth of Mint's LTS releases have been my mainstay for so long now and I am continually recommending them to more people. Where would I be without all the investment that Canonical makes in the superb Ubuntu base that we use?

Ubuntu's message inviting people to donate may be in very slightly poor taste and its sarcastic tone might annoy some - but their request is a legitimate and reasonable one nonetheless. I don't feel it amounts to "hard-pressing" users.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:43 am
by Ark987
jimallyn wrote:I don't have a problem with them asking for donations. A lot of time and effort goes into making a Linux distribution, and developers gotta eat, too. But if it's a problem for you, then go somewhere else. That's one of the beautiful things about Free/Open Source software: you have choices. You may be interested in this definition of Free software:
“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. We sometimes call it “libre software” to show we do not mean it is gratis.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
More hints:
Freedom to distribute (freedoms 2 and 3) means you are free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission to do so.
A bit more of clarifications at: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-sour ... point.html
Common Misunderstandings of “Free Software” and “Open Source”

The term “free software” is prone to misinterpretation: an unintended meaning, “software you can get for zero price,” fits the term just as well as the intended meaning, “software which gives the user certain freedoms.” We address this problem by publishing the definition of free software, and by saying “Think of ‘free speech,’ not ‘free beer.’” This is not a perfect solution; it cannot completely eliminate the problem. An unambiguous and correct term would be better, if it didn't present other problems.
Personally I would pay just for a commercial desktop environment in Linux, a DE made for "consumers" oriented on usability. Not a revolutionary Gnome, unstable KDE, outdated XFCE, indomitable Unity, crippled LXDE, newborn Cinnamon, persistent Mate, sorry I still cannot find my place among many DEs :? Maybe a currency could incentive the motivation of developers :) .

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:48 am
by Pjotr
Ark987 wrote:Personally I would pay just for a commercial desktop environment in Linux, a DE made for "consumers" oriented on usability. Not a revolutionary Gnome, unstable KDE, outdated XFCE, indomitable Unity, crippled LXDE, newborn Cinnamon, persistent Mate, sorry I still cannot find my place among many DEs :? Maybe a currency could incentive better motivations.
There's no accounting for tastes..... :mrgreen:

As for me, I'm perfectly happy with Cinnamon for modern computers and Xfce (or even LXDE) for old computers. Cool stuff, I love it.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:10 am
by all41
However, it becomes irritating when such a person loudly and furiously reacts when he's politely asked to donate to Ubuntu
Yes! It's like badmouthing the Salvation Army bell ringers

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:15 am
by craig10x
And if i may play psychotherapist for a moment...i think the op doesn't like seeing it there because it reminds him that he is a bit "tight with the buck" as he is downloading his free ubuntu... :wink: :lol:

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:54 am
by MartyMint
Anyone using Mint, Ubuntu or just about any other Linux distro is contributing just by expanding the user base. That has value in and of itself.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:16 pm
by MartyMint
I think we can address the issue without ad hominem attacks...

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:44 pm
by Habitual
CtrlAltDel wrote:is what you get now when attempting to download an Ubuntu .iso.
Negative, that is what you are shown attempting to download Ubuntu.
No coercion of any kind. There's even a nice little "No Thanks" right there in your face.

I suggest decaf. :wink:

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:28 am
by r00t
A reminder to everyone: You can disagree with someone without having to attack them. It takes a bit more thinking before you post, but hopefully you're doing that anyway, instead of going the easy route (claiming everyone who disagrees with you is a troll).

To be clear: Attacks on people will not be tolerated. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:17 pm
by CtrlAltDel
r00t wrote:A reminder to everyone: You can disagree with someone without having to attack them. It takes a bit more thinking before you post, but hopefully you're doing that anyway, instead of going the easy route (claiming everyone who disagrees with you is a troll).

To be clear: Attacks on people will not be tolerated. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Thanks, rOOt. And I wish to say that it wasn't my intent to upset anyone. I had just never seen a request for money like that on a Linux distro before and I guess it caught me off guard.

On the other hand, many of you have made very good arguments about why I may be viewing this from the wrong angle and I'll think it over.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:45 pm
by InkKnife
I have no problem at all with developers being up front and asking for support if you like their work. The donation is voluntary.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:20 am
by jimallyn
I bought all 4 releases of Xandros Linux, and felt it was money well spent. I think they were about 80 dollars or so each. I haven't yet donated to Mint, but it's on my to-do list. I don't mind Linux developers asking for money, as long as they are reasonably polite about it.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:01 am
by coder123
@CtrlAltDel

aside from what others have said, how are the servers hosting Linux .isos suppose to stay up?

P.S. nice name. :)