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Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:20 am
by CtrlAltDel
This:
Selection_001.png
is what you get now when attempting to download an Ubuntu .iso.

Somehow, this just seems to violate what Linux is supposed to be about. I sure hope Linux Mint never resorts to this, or has to resort to this. Somehow, I feel that Ubuntu doesn't have to do what they are now doing, but are choosing to do so.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:29 am
by BigEasy
CtrlAltDel wrote:Somehow, this just seems to violate what Linux is supposed to be about.
Nobody said what Linux to be about. Said GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish)...

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:23 am
by Pjotr
I find the title of this thread offensive. For Mint, Ubuntu is the main upstream source and therefore tremendously important.

There's absolutely no need to insult Ubuntu like this, nor the ways in which Canonical tries to finance its fine distribution. By the way: are you willing to pay the bills of the Canonical developers?

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:04 am
by Pilosopong Tasyo
Pjotr wrote:I find the title of this thread offensive.
A word in the original title was indeed unpleasant to the eyes. Considering this is a family-oriented forum, it was taken to the archive for further assessment.

The thread has been reviewed, and the original word has been replaced with something more suitable.

Thread is reinstated. Carry on with the discussion.

-----

On-topic:

IINM, this issue was under contention before; if not discussed here, probably at the Ubuntu forum or elsewhere. IOW, it's an old controversy. It came up as early as in late 2012, based on this ZDNet article.

As for myself, I tend to agree with BigEasy. It's freedom as opposed to free food. I don't really see anything wrong with Canonical "nudging" us freeloaders to give something back for all their efforts in bringing us a fine distribution (of which the main edition of Mint is based from). Besides, the act of donating is optional. Anyone has the freedom to choose "Not now, take me to the download."

We wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds us now, would we?

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:41 am
by English Invader
As Richard Stallman put it, free software is about "free speech" not "free beer". Open source developers deserve our support and I don't blame Ubuntu for their pro-active approach to fund-raising. People need to be made aware that everything costs money and that distros aren't developed and supported by little furry animals in the middle of the night.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:22 am
by craig10x
And again, the money (assuming you make the donation as it DOES after all let you skip it if you want to) goes to developing ubuntu, not into Mark Shuttleworth's pocket...I think you forget that even Linux Mint uses ads on the forum to help develop and support mint and also accepts donations...The ubuntu forum does not have any ads and really, other then when you are actually downloading ubuntu, they don't really ask for donations anywhere on their site that i know of...

I use ubuntu myself and periodically i send them a donation to support it...and in fact, how do i do it? I go to that download page.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:26 am
by z31fanatic
It has always been that way. At least since 12.04. I don't see a problem with it.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:32 am
by DrHu
Ubuntu is trying to be proactive in encouraging their users: either the commercial variety that use Ubuntu as a server OS or home users to help with the cost
The cost is minimal, and they do have an option to skip and just download directly
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/ ... ture=amd64

So they are not force feeding the choice..

I expect Mint has already made their own contribution
--whether that is with development help or direct payment towards Ubuntu's project..

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:49 pm
by CtrlAltDel
Pjotr wrote:I find the title of this thread offensive. For Mint, Ubuntu is the main upstream source and therefore tremendously important.

There's absolutely no need to insult Ubuntu like this, nor the ways in which Canonical tries to finance its fine distribution. By the way: are you willing to pay the bills of the Canonical developers?
Am I "willing" to pay the bills of another man or woman? No way. I don't pay for Windows and I don't pay for Linux. Would I donate? Yes, I have donated to various endeavors having to do with Linux. I don't appreciate being hounded for money when downloading a Linux .iso. There is a difference between feeling obligated to pay the bills of free software developers and donating money out of good will.

If the developers of Ubuntu decide that they are going to go the Windows route, which is apparently coming very soon, I will find another distribution that doesn't charge. If Linux Mint decides to start charging for their fine distribution, I'll find one that doesn't charge.

When all the good ones start charging, a better supported and more popular one will pop up that costs nothing due to the very fact that people don't wish to pay and will put their time and effort into the free distribution.

If the Canonical developers can't pay their bills without hard pressing users for cash, I'd just as soon see them find second jobs or quit their current one and get one not related to free software. It's not our jobs to pay the bills of Canonical employees; Linux is supposed to be free. If they put enough time into it to where they are destitute without what is slowly becoming forced "contributions", they are not setting their priorities in the correct order.

The free software community is exactly that, free. We aren't at their mercy, they are at ours.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:53 pm
by mr_raider
I've donated to Mint before. I see no issue with Ubuntu fans donating to their distro. Linux has been crowdfunding long before crodfunding became a real word (is it?).

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:54 pm
by CtrlAltDel
DrHu wrote:Ubuntu is trying to be proactive in encouraging their users: either the commercial variety that use Ubuntu as a server OS or home users to help with the cost
The cost is minimal, and they do have an option to skip and just download directly
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/ ... ture=amd64

So they are not force feeding the choice..

I expect Mint has already made their own contribution
--whether that is with development help or direct payment towards Ubuntu's project..
You and I both know that once a piece of software reaches the point of in your face and unavoidable panhandling for donations, it won't remain free for long. Once the "donations" become mandatory in order to download, then let's see how many of those that are currently worried about Canonical developers being "donated to" are still willing to pay a steep price for usage.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:58 pm
by CtrlAltDel
mr_raider wrote:I've donated to Mint before. I see no issue with Ubuntu fans donating to their distro. Linux has been crowdfunding long before crodfunding became a real word (is it?).
I would certainly never advise anyone to not donate their money if that is what they wish to do. I would complain, as I am doing now, when proactive and unavoidable click me ads are foisted upon anyone wishing to download a variety of Linux.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:06 pm
by Pjotr
CtrlAltDel wrote:I'm not willing to pay for anything, period.
How *do* you contribute then (time, effort, code, server space)? Or do you consider acting like a leech is alright, because you somehow have the right to receive without giving, and every effort to get voluntary donations from you needs to be combated with a lot of noise?
The free software community is exactly that, free.
Free as in libre, not free as in free beer.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:26 pm
by CtrlAltDel
craig10x wrote:And again, the money (assuming you make the donation as it DOES after all let you skip it if you want to) goes to developing ubuntu, not into Mark Shuttleworth's pocket...I think you forget that even Linux Mint uses ads on the forum to help develop and support mint and also accepts donations...The ubuntu forum does not have any ads and really, other then when you are actually downloading ubuntu, they don't really ask for donations anywhere on their site that i know of...

I use ubuntu myself and periodically i send them a donation to support it...and in fact, how do i do it? I go to that download page.
Their repository is full of applications that have a price tag. It's sickening. Rhythmbox is rigged to beg for money. Ubuntu constantly panhandles for it's users to buy cloud storage. How sad. A once fine distribution now using the OS to suck money out of you.

Ubuntu Software Center is just a big flashing banner ad asking for donations or offering for pay "apps", not programs. They are apps now. You basically need an ad-blocker when venturing to the software center now; it is ridiculous and gaudy.

Old Ubuntu Manifesto:
The Ubuntu community is built on the ideas enshrined in the Ubuntu Manifesto: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customize and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.
That is nowhere to be found now, though. The new manifesto is, charge, charge, charge for anything that we can get away with and make the advertising as annoying as possible.

Anytime you use Dash, your search information and your location and your shopping habits and your browsing habits and anything else they can glean from you is sold to Amazon and who knows who else. Opening "free" programs just to try to take a note, check email, browse the Internet are now triggering ads to entice you to buy stuff. Are you kidding me?

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:32 pm
by jimallyn
I don't have a problem with them asking for donations. A lot of time and effort goes into making a Linux distribution, and developers gotta eat, too. But if it's a problem for you, then go somewhere else. That's one of the beautiful things about Free/Open Source software: you have choices. You may be interested in this definition of Free software:
“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. We sometimes call it “libre software” to show we do not mean it is gratis.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:33 pm
by CtrlAltDel
Pjotr wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:I'm not willing to pay for anything, period.
How *do* you contribute then (time, effort, code, server space)? Or do you consider acting like a leech is alright, because you somehow have the right to receive without giving, and every effort to get voluntary donations from you needs to be combated with a lot of noise?
The free software community is exactly that, free.
Free as in libre, not free as in free beer.
I should have phrased that in this way:

I am not willing to be hounded and forced or tricked or shamed into paying for Linux. I also don't wish to be snooped on with ads and scripts generated by my OS in order to glean money from users. Frankly, I have donated a little here and there but feel no need to validate that with anyone.

I could just as easily understand someone's motivations who never donate time, money, or talents. If the developers of Ubuntu or Debian or Mint, or even Linux, don't feel that they can do it free of charge, they should rethink their commitment.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:49 pm
by CtrlAltDel
I don't have a problem with them asking for donations. A lot of time and effort goes into making a Linux distribution, and developers gotta eat, too. But if it's a problem for you, then go somewhere else. That's one of the beautiful things about Free/Open Source software: you have choices.
Of course we do. That is the very reason users are flocking away from Ubuntu like it is infected with a horrible and contagious disease. As soon as Linux Mint starts, hopefully they won't, the underhanded and deceptive tactics that Ubuntu has implemented, everyone will be free to leave it and find another. That is one of the beautiful things about Free/Open software.
You may be interested in this definition of Free software:

“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. We sometimes call it “libre software” to show we do not mean it is gratis.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
If they do not mean it is gratis, they should charge. That about sums it up doesn't it? Why don't they just charge for it if it isn't free as in free beer? They could charge for it and also give users the "freedom" to run, copy, distribute, study, change, and improve the software.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:16 pm
by MartyMint
Canonical is a high-tech software outfit...not a soup kitchen.

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:18 pm
by MartyMint
CtrlAltDel wrote:...hounded and forced or tricked or shamed...
Excuse me but...where did this happen?

Re: Ubuntu pandering for cash

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:00 pm
by craig10x
Seems like (based on his latest comments) the op of this thread has a very bad case of ubuntu-itis, a disease which causes irrational hate of the ubuntu linux distribution :wink: :mrgreen: