Which Linux Mint Distro to completely replace Windows?

[martienne]

Since lots of people criticised my comment about installation difficulties I will respond. This is my sincere opinion, take it or leave it:

Whether you experience installation difficulties probably depends on what kind of machine you have. A standard laptop with one drive? No problem, judging from responses here. Well, good for you!

I have a machine with multiple drives. I also have an Nvidia graphics card. Both these circumstances were creating problems.

Firstly: The installation failed for me 2-3 times with "Grub fatal installation error". No further info or details. Eventually I googled it, realised what it was, and that I'd have to unplug all but one drive for the installation to work.

Second issue: Monitor completely failed to recognise graphics card and displayed nothing at all on the monitor when booting in Mint. Fortunately my CPU has built in graphics, I patched in a monitor there, and discovered that I had yet another crash - Cinammon crashed, reverting to very restricted "fallback mode".

What if I'd have no other graphics? What if I was a non-technical user who could not guess at what the problem was?
And even for me, this was challenging. Remember - I was brand new, so did not know anything about what Cinnamon is, and as far as I am concerned I have a standard graphics card, picked up off the shelf at PC World.

I realised that removing the physically graphics card prevented the crash in cinammon and set about researching how to resolve the Nvidia issue. I had to figure out that appropriate drivers had to be obtained through the software manager. Reboot the PC with the card back in. Hurrah, no longer crashing, but cannot get the resolution I want. That's essentially where I still am with that.

Now: Would your mother have managed this? What about your non-technical neighbour, wife or friend? How about even a "superuser" in your office?

If my experiences are not a threshold to uptake of Linux Mint, I don't know what is!

Yes - nobody is denying that for an off-the-shelf laptop or basic PC the installation is probably painless. Good for you!
But not everybody has that type of machine.

• In lots of countries outside Western Europe and North America, most people are on PCs that were built by a local shop using spare parts, i.e. "recycled" machines, or machines put together from new components, due to the fact that the components are made locally and are cheap there.
• Many Western kids have "gaming rigs" that they may have tinkered a bit with themselves, or that was built by some small supplier of this type of PCs. These kids are not necessarily technical enough for serious troubleshooting in a scenario like this.
• Some people had their PC or laptop sent for repairs to a local shop which replaced a few components with non-standard bits. That's all it takes for the installation process to fall over as far as I can tell. And the user being non-technical doesn't even know their machine is no longer standard.

All the above users could very well experience installation problems with Linux Mint and are not techie enough, or motivated enough to see the problem through until solved. --> "Customer" lost, another soul doomed to the outer darkness (Mac) or the lake of fire (Windows)

[Spearmint2]

but cannot get the resolution I want. That's essentially where I still am with that.

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xrandr --help

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cvt --help

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xrandr

Use CVT and xrandr to create the resolutions you want.

For Nvidia, also there is

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sudo apt-get install nvidia-settings

or if Optimus then use this;

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sudo apt-get install bumblebee

Some people had their PC or laptop sent for repairs to a local shop which replaced a few components with non-standard bits. That's all it takes for the installation process to fall over as far as I can tell.

This happens no matter what the OS is, including windows.

[Habitual]

I had to figure out that appropriate drivers had to be obtained through the software manager.

That's not how it went.

All your experiences in Installing and Configuring LinuxMint are newb'ish
issues that any 20 year veteran of IT should be able to handle with ease.

I don't believe anything you say.

[martienne]

but cannot get the resolution I want. That's essentially where I still am with that.

Thanks for the advise! Goes on my list of things to do on this machine.

I had to figure out that appropriate drivers had to be obtained through the software manager.

That's not how it went.

All your experiences in Installing and Configuring LinuxMint are newb'ish
issues that any 20 year veteran of IT should be able to handle with ease.

I don't believe anything you say.

I don't know where you get your information about me, but what you said about my experience is not correct, and you do not exactly fill me with inspiration to set you straight. You are free to believe whatever you like and it's not relevant to this discussion either way.

The point is precisely that I am "newbish" in relation to Linux, but not computing.
I could just about manage, so how would somebody less experienced fare?

I was trying to show that I had 2 quite complex issues in connection to installation, which took time and energy to resolve, and it took me a long while to get there. Including IRC, forum (the post you linked to) and google.

On a second note: Did I accidentally did something that offended you personally? It's the second or third time you make an effort to be unpleasant to me. If I offended you it was unintentional - pm me if you have something you'd like to straighten out. Else, can you give it a break now please.

[Madz]

OMG!! Who's the fire starter? I see flames everywhere!!

Disregarding all those frustrations and blunt comments, I only have one question..
I'm buying a fast USB 3.0 stick to install linux directly on it. I was afraid I had problems with iSSD when installing Mint to SSD but everything went fine..
Will it also be fine when installing to stick, or do I need to remove SSD drive to avoid anything written on it?
I took 2 days and 2 fresh installations of Windows 7 to set everything right in my SSD, and I really don't want to do it all over again..

Thanks.

[martienne]

OMG!! Who's the fire starter? I see flames everywhere!! .

Apologies, I misunderstood the topic and wrote a post that distracted from your topic, then others started responding. It was unintentional. Sorry about that and good luck.

[MartyMint]

I don't believe anything you say.

Hmmm...that doesn't sound very fair to say.

Let me tell you though, as a decorated war veteran and professional male model (when I'm not test driving prototype Lamborghinis) I too "work in IT".
In all my 20 years of experience, I've seen many case studies...and no two are the same.
Just PM me later, as I'll be taking my private jet to my alpaca farm on Easter Island later this evening.

[Reorx]

...The point is precisely that I am "newbish" in relation to Linux, but not computing. [/b]
I could just about manage, so how would somebody less experienced fare?

I was trying to show that I had 2 quite complex issues in connection to installation, which took time and energy to resolve, and it took me a long while to get there. Including IRC, forum (the post you linked to) and google...

I think the complex issues you encountered were the result of sub-optimal preinstallation choices and inexperience. Your experience leads you to take on complex tasks with impunity because of the "I'm experienced IT professional... I can handle this..." mindset... and you CAN handle it, it just isn't easy like you expect it to be... as an example > I am not a techie but rather more of a hobbiest (from the point of view of a IT professional)... but I do have 4+ years experience running Linux (Mint) on "simple" machines... oh, and I have been reading these forums for 5+ years... If I was preparing to install Linux Mint on a desktop machine with more than 1 HD and I intended to put the whole installation on 1 HD, I would simply disconnect the other HDs for the installation. The reasoning (for me) goes like this > While I believe that I shouldn't have to disconnect the other HDs, they serve no useful purpose during the installation and can contribute to making the installation unnecessarily complex and can be a source of errors which can be difficult to figure out and even more difficult to fix. After the installation, I would reconnect the HDs and if I wanted to used any of the partitions on these HD in my Mint installation, I can mount them manually (on the fly) or automatically at bootup - my choice (after I have a working installation)...

In terms of the Nvidia misadventure - the issue isn't all that complicated... it is a well known and widely discussed... the fix is relatively simple but perhaps not intuitive to an inexperienced Mint user. I think Windows is at least as non-intuitive if not much more so but you have Win experience so you understand it and are not effected by that...

The point I am trying to make here is somewhat counterintuitive but your vast experience (in many ways) is working against you, not for you! Your Windows (software) experience to a large degree does not carry over to Linux. Accept that and try not to bite off more than you can chew. Because of your experience (conceptually), you are learning at a rate much faster than the average newb - but even this accelerated rate seems to be not fast enough and results in frustration...

...take a deep breath... plan for the worst and hope for the best... don't worry, it gets easier...

Best,

- R -

[Reorx]

...I only have one question..;
I'm buying a fast USB 3.0 stick to install linux directly on it... Will it also be fine when installing to stick, or do I need to remove SSD drive to avoid anything written on it?

Thanks.

You can install directly to a USB flash drive but you will be choosing "something else" in the installer and manually configuring everything. Go slowly and pay close attention to details - they matter!... I walked another forum member through the process earlier this year. The thread is here > http://forums.linuxmint.com/posting.php ... &p=1094789 Take a look and if you have any questions, ask...

Good luck...

- R -

[killer de bug]

Now: Would your mother have managed this? What about your non-technical neighbour, wife or friend? How about even a "superuser" in your office?

This is not an acceptable argument as most of the users don't know how to install an OS. This is true for Windows or for any other OS.
Now this said, installing the Nvidia Graphic drivers is much easier under Linux than under Windows. The drivers are in the repo and it's the same package for everyone. It will detect your card and use the right driver.

Under Windows you have to browse Nvidia website to find the driver. Don't ask my mom to do this.

[Moem]

This is not an acceptable argument as most of the users don't know how to install an OS. This is true for Windows or for any other OS.

I agree with this, but I have a general request: can we please leave all the moms, wives etc. out of this? My mother can't install an OS without help, but neither can my father. Let's stop using 'woman' as sloppy shorthand for 'non-technical person'.
Little things like these seem insignificant, but it's all part of a general atmosphere that keeps many girls and women from exploring the technical side of the world. After all, if you are a part of the half of humanity that is apparently by default non-technical, why would you even bother?

[Habitual]

On a second note: Did I accidentally did something that offended you personally? It's the second or third time you make an effort to be unpleasant to me. If I offended you it was unintentional - pm me if you have something you'd like to straighten out. Else, can you give it a break now please.

I humbly apologize to you and the entire LinuxMint Community for my unsocial behavior towards you. I hope you and they can forgive me. I sometimes react instead of act and I also forget the simple things, like being polite, or what it was like when I was a "newbie". I don't play well with other sometimes.
I got the impression that you had lots of experience in your opening post here
but it seems that post was edited 30 minutes after my rant and the reference has been altered. No harm, no foul. Time to move on.

I have made several references to your "20 years in IT" that stemmed from that same post, and you never refuted nor questioned where I got that info to make such a statement until now.

It doesn't cost anything to be nice, and I made you pay the price for that and I'm sorry.
I should have behaved better.

Peace.

[Maik]

I don't believe anything you say.

Hmmm...that doesn't sound very fair to say.

Let me tell you though, as a decorated war veteran and professional male model (when I'm not test driving prototype Lamborghinis) I too "work in IT".
In all my 20 years of experience, I've seen many case studies...and no two are the same.
Just PM me later, as I'll be taking my private jet to my alpaca farm on Easter Island later this evening.

Apologies to OP as this is all going way off topic but I'm just curious. Marty, I love alpacas and a private jet to Easter Island sounds fantastic. But will you be able to pick up the next instalment of the martienne show?

[Madz]

...I only have one question..;
I'm buying a fast USB 3.0 stick to install linux directly on it... Will it also be fine when installing to stick, or do I need to remove SSD drive to avoid anything written on it?

Thanks.

You can install directly to a USB flash drive but you will be choosing "something else" in the installer and manually configuring everything. Go slowly and pay close attention to details - they matter!... I walked another forum member through the process earlier this year. The thread is here > http://forums.linuxmint.com/posting.php ... &p=1094789 Take a look and if you have any questions, ask...

Good luck...

- R -

Thank you Reorx. I did already read some threads and will read yours and some more. I was unsure if removing the SSD was necessary but now I'm more relieved now.

@EVERYONE - I'm new to the forum and I've been quiet until now. I don't want to tell anyone what to do in your forum or in my thread, but I think it's enough ideology and we can stick to useful learning information from now on. 80%+ of the posts here are unrelated to solutions on questions made, and they're even completely ignored. I (and most people, I believe..) am not here to debate how hard or different it is to configure mint, I'm here to learn and move past those difficulties.
I can only imagine how frustrating would be for someone to Google, find this thread and read through it to find an answer.. I hope we can move past this from now on..

Again, no reply to my comment needed. I'm not looking to debate anything else that my newbie issues in hand. I only felt the need to say what I think about all this..

Thank you everyone for the support provided so far and in advance for all that will be given in the future.

[MartyMint]

I don't believe anything you say.

Hmmm...that doesn't sound very fair to say.

Let me tell you though, as a decorated war veteran and professional male model (when I'm not test driving prototype Lamborghinis) I too "work in IT".
In all my 20 years of experience, I've seen many case studies...and no two are the same.
Just PM me later, as I'll be taking my private jet to my alpaca farm on Easter Island later this evening.

Apologies to OP as this is all going way off topic but I'm just curious. Marty, I love alpacas and a private jet to Easter Island sounds fantastic. But will you be able to pick up the next instalment of the martienne show?

I just rescued a bunch of orphans from a burning building, so I'm still a little dizzy from smoke inhalation.
Let me catch my breath...then I'll see what I can do...

[Spearmint2]

USB installation. There are several ways. I would unplug any other drive's data cord first if unsure of what you are doing. You can always add them back into the GRUB later by running the grub update command when using the USB drive.

1) You can do a full install to a USB flashdrive. It's done the same way as installing to a hard drive.

2) You can boot to a DVD and then run Mint's USB Stick Formatter & then the USB Stick Imager.

3) You can use Unetbootin to create a USB LIVE version with persistence. This is my preference now, because it's compressed, so quicker read from the flashdrive. This is a bit more involved and I prefer partition persistence instead of 4GB max file size persistence file.

a) Use GPARTED to create a 2GB first partition and format as FAT32.

b) Use Unetbootin to install the LIVE system from the ISO file into it. Set the persistence value for about 10 MB only, to speed past this part. Persistence created will be a file called casper-rw.

c) Boot to this LIVE version on the flashdrive.

d) Open GParted. On the rest of the flashdrive space create an ext2 or ext4 partition, and give it the label of casper-rw. EXT2 file format avoids journaling slowdowns.

e) Open the file manager and delete the file named casper-rw. Your casper-rw partition will then be used for persistence instead.

This will give you a compressed LIVE version that is faster than a fully installed version would be on the flash drive. You have plenty of persistence space for all changes made and for adding more programs like Virtual Machine. It will seem like a full version, but take up less space on the flashdrive, run in a RAMDRIVE and be faster. At some point a full version is might be preferable, but for a flash drive, considering they read slow, the compressed system using a RAMDRIVE is faster than running a full system from a flash drive.

[Madz]

3) You can use Unetbootin to create a USB LIVE version with persistence. This is my preference now, because it's compressed, so quicker read from the flash drive.

This comes a bit as a surprise for me, I've been reading the opposite.. Anyway, will it still be faster using USB 3.0? Because I also was under the impression that linux needs to load usb3 drivers during boot. Also, wouldn't compressed files read slower in usb3 vs uncompressed? I'm not entirely sure of what I'm saying, but in usb2 makes sense to read compressed and let RAM work, just not sure same principle applies to a 200 MB/s read USB3..

Thanks.

[BigEasy]

No Linux exists in the Globe to completely replace Windows. In some particular tasks - yes.

[Spearmint2]

3) You can use Unetbootin to create a USB LIVE version with persistence. This is my preference now, because it's compressed, so quicker read from the flash drive.

This comes a bit as a surprise for me, I've been reading the opposite.. Anyway, will it still be faster using USB 3.0? Because I also was under the impression that linux needs to load usb3 drivers during boot. Also, wouldn't compressed files read slower in usb3 vs uncompressed? I'm not entirely sure of what I'm saying, but in usb2 makes sense to read compressed and let RAM work, just not sure same principle applies to a 200 MB/s read USB3..
Thanks.

I agree it seems not to make sense at first, but after testing it, I discovered the LIVE persistent version worked quicker. So, then it was figuring out why. On boot the biggest slowdown is the read speed of any flashdrive. The biggest slowdown on compressed boot system is how quick the CPU can work to uncompress it. The compressed system is about 1.5 GB and the installed version is over 6 or 7 GB. So, the read from the flashdrive of the compressed system is faster than a fully installed version and the movement of data between the CPU and the RAM is certainly faster than the remaining time to finish reading the flash drive.

Here's what I show for RAM and flashdrive use with LIVE USB after boot.

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~ $ inxi
CPU~Dual core AMD Phenom II X2 545 (-MCP-) clocked at Min:800.000Mhz Max:1800.000Mhz Kernel~3.13.0-24-generic i686 Up~3 min Mem~251.2/3523.2MB HDD~765.9GB(0.3% used) Procs~158 Client~Shell inxi~1.8.4  

GParted_LiveMintUSB.png

As for your question of USB2 vs USB3, I still think in most cases it would be faster, but maybe not if you get above 100 MBps using the really fast flash. Of course the space advantage still applies, which is important if you are working with a 16 GB flash drive, and more so if 8GB.

[Madz]

@Spearmint2

I'm convinced and already preparing a USB2 stick to test it before the USB3 arrives.. Which filesystem do you recommend in USB3, I read somewhere that ext3 and ext4 burn USB2 sticks very fast, will it be the same on USB3 sticks?

Thanks.