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Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:51 am
by Pjotr
mrgoogle wrote:Look if we carefully look at their arguments its obvious that majority of them don't even know what they are talking about and ignoring these dump questions will not enlighten them
On the contrary. The majority does not ask dumb questions, but good ones. And it very well knows what it's talking about: it just doesn't want fundamental changes in the desktop environments. Because it's happy with the way they are. I suggest you live with it.
, you seem to be the ONLY one that's giving me a justifiable comebacks, if your an admin aren't you suppose to be helping me in educating them ?
I think you need educating instead: we. do. not. want. fundamental. changes. in. our. desktops. Period.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:06 am
by mrgoogle
Pjotr wrote: On the contrary. The majority does not ask dumb questions, but good ones. And it very well knows what it's talking about: it just doesn't want fundamental changes in the desktop environments. Because it's happy with the way they are. I suggest you live with it.

look we're both adults here so don't get so over emotional for something like this and stay honest with facts. As admin you should be the most rational guy and have the greatest understanding of the difference between subjectivity vs objectivity. The reason why its dump is because the answer to most of their questions can be easily be found on tech-reviews and comparisons.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:21 am
by xenopeek
One last chance mrgoogle: what do you want from this topic because as you can see the others here are lost what the goal or desired outcome is.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:26 am
by mrgoogle
xenopeek wrote:One last chance mrgoogle: what do you want from this topic because as you can see the others here are lost what the goal or desired outcome is.
desktop environment doesn;t need to be exactly be the same as the one in my vision but at least it should be as easy, organized, and staright-forward like the one i posted; now a days developers are working really hard to be make the UI of most distros very simplistic and easy to understand for everyone but to me they are stil going the wrong the direction because of these reasons; 1st of all there is no clear target market or specific target people for their designs(be specific who is really is your target people and for what purpose is this product for, be specific), 2nd they fail to connect to them and make them realize and understand the concept and purpose of their designs to their target people(im one of them), 3rd most distros' UI are becoming more and more complex instead of becoming simplistic, although not all distos would fall in into this category(enlightenment os)

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:32 am
by mrgoogle
Pjotr wrote: I think you need educating instead: we. do. not. want. fundamental. changes. in. our. desktops. Period.
the community, the desktop environment, the linux-mint's goals & objectives, your approach to the market industry and most of all your philosophy are the things im trying to get at here

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:37 am
by Fred Barclay
mrgoogle wrote: now a days developers are working really hard to be make the UI of most distros very simplistic and easy to understand for everyone but to me they are stil going the wrong the direction
Bingo!
So it is your personal preference behind this. Not user data. Not market research. (And since you wanted graphs and surveys from BigEasy, where are the ones supporting your position?)

Perhaps if you would write your thesis and post it here plainly instead of trying to "educate" us in the art of debating or telling our admins how to do their job ;) we could understand you more.

EDIT: corrected spelling

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:49 am
by Ark987
I saw the sketches, I think is doable by just by using themes and adding some extra tools like dock bars etc I suppose you want an improvement of the screenshot that I've uploaded.

To keep this Destkop UI in the "right" direction first we need to remove the choice and free will :lol:, I suggest that you remove your sketches from the Internet and start commercializing your idea.

I've already said before that I would love to see a commercial Linux Desktop Environment for consumers with some nice enterprise features like connecting to network share and some management perks out of the box. Of course this DE should support all major distros. Beware that you won't be able to please everybody and if your company grow big the public will hate every change you apply :roll:

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:49 am
by mrgoogle
Fred Barclay wrote:
mrgoogle wrote: now a days developers are working really hard to be make the UI of most distros very simplistic and easy to understand for everyone but to me they are stil going the wrong the direction
Bingo!
So it is your personal preference behind this. Not user data. Not market research. (And since you wanted graphs and surveys from BigEasy, where are the ones supporting your position?)

Perhaps if you would write your thesis and post it here plainly instead of trying to "educate" us in the art of debating or telling our admins how to do their job ;) we could understand you more.

EDIT: corrected spelling
OK, I'm done with you.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:08 am
by mrgoogle
Ark987 wrote:I saw the sketches, I think is doable by just by using themes and adding some extra tools like dock bars etc I suppose you want an improvement of the screenshot that I've uploaded.

To keep this Destkop UI in the "right" direction first we need to remove the choice and free will :lol:, I suggest that you remove your sketches from the Internet and start commercializing your idea.

I've already said before that I would love to see a commercial Linux Desktop Environment for consumers with some nice enterprise features like connecting to network share and some management perks out of the box. Of course this DE should support all major distros. Beware that you won't be able to please everybody and if your company grow big the public will hate every change you apply :roll:
I'm very grateful for your humble opinion but I have no plan to be in the software business and I'm already more than satisfied being a marketing manager and a tech commentator, I can clearly understand the ideology behind this design, its meant to be a mass marketing type of a product and I can get kind of biased over targeted marketed ones simply because all-in-one products is no longer that applicable to the fast changing market industry, in my theory we should have a separate type of products or OSs for every big market industries we wish to invest on. All those sketches are for everyone so you can have it. And by the way, the main goal of my design is to bring life to the unity launcher or unity DE to meet the modern day standards of a netbook user-experience and please read all the previous post; I'm sure you'll get really well entertained

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:26 am
by daveinuk
mrgoogle wrote: market segmentation research, our target people, targeted marketing vs mass marketing, market industry, marketing experts, good product, market-share, multiple market industries, our target people, our target market, target market and objective, competitive advantage, the industry, adoption rate
It strikes me that you have 'Us' confused with some other commercial venture that is trying it's hardest to be ' Top Dog'. Here at Mint HQ, 'We' don't give a crap, if 'we' don't like 'the direction' we can jump ship, taking our donations of money, and donations of time spent voluntarily helping others, with us, or 'we' can alter, customise, and tweak to our hearts content.

'The Direction' is in part, up to the general 'wants' of the community, isn't this the reason why Mint exists in the first place? 'Someone', (the big cheese Mr L) decided to 'do it his way' in a nutshell, and on the strength of that relationship betweeen him, the devs and the users feedback, it has progressed very nicely ever since.

So you see, 'we' are not a 'company', in an 'Industry' seeking approval from a 'market', 'we' are a community, who's ideas and choices are put into action, then put out there for you to decide whether you want to use them or not, and it's fine if you don't. 'We' don't even mind helping people who have tried and found they don't like it and want help to go back to whatever they used before, without getting our jimmies all rustled, because they have the freedom to choose and that doesn't have to be because of a 'fault' with Mint, there are no 'faults', just choices. It's nobody's 'fault' that Mint isn't the biggest OS in the world, and that's not a 'direction' I'd ever personally want to see, sure it may be nice to see Mint on some hardware in a shop, but for that you need a 'company'.

The way i see it is 'Linux' has pretty much already adopted 'the right direction', it's everywhere already. Your thread could go on forever, because there is no 'One size fits all' in the desktop OS world, there is choice, and the freedom to choose, and do as you wish, and it doesn't go in a better 'direction' than that.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:26 pm
by killer de bug
mrgoogle wrote:now a days developers are working really hard to be make the UI of most distros very simplistic and easy to understand for everyone but to me they are stil going the wrong the direction because of these reasons;
First of all, please note that your opinion is, well, only your opinion. So unless you can backup your statement with strong data, it will stay only your opinion.

You should also note that Cinnamon has become very popular whereas Mate has still a strong user base. In Microsoft world, the menu is back since 8.1. This should give you a strong hint that people don't want minimalist interface. On the contrary they want a desktop where they can easily work.

Now we have 2 situations. Either you take for granted that people like the current desktops (and we have a few of them). Or you consider that you can do better and you do better. If people use your creation and if they like it, then you win. Congratulation. Otherwise, you will still have you own perfect DE. Congratulation.

But criticisms based on wind are not helpful and in fact they are a waste of time. :wink:

tl;dr: do it yourself or stop complaining. :mrgreen:

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:56 pm
by mrgoogle
daveinuk wrote:
mrgoogle wrote: market segmentation research, our target people, targeted marketing vs mass marketing, market industry, marketing experts, good product, market-share, multiple market industries, our target people, our target market, target market and objective, competitive advantage, the industry, adoption rate
It strikes me that you have 'Us' confused with some other commercial venture that is trying it's hardest to be ' Top Dog'. Here at Mint HQ, 'We' don't give a crap, if 'we' don't like 'the direction' we can jump ship, taking our donations of money, and donations of time spent voluntarily helping others, with us, or 'we' can alter, customise, and tweak to our hearts content.

'The Direction' is in part, up to the general 'wants' of the community, isn't this the reason why Mint exists in the first place? 'Someone', (the big cheese Mr L) decided to 'do it his way' in a nutshell, and on the strength of that relationship betweeen him, the devs and the users feedback, it has progressed very nicely ever since.

So you see, 'we' are not a 'company', in an 'Industry' seeking approval from a 'market', 'we' are a community, who's ideas and choices are put into action, then put out there for you to decide whether you want to use them or not, and it's fine if you don't. 'We' don't even mind helping people who have tried and found they don't like it and want help to go back to whatever they used before, without getting our jimmies all rustled, because they have the freedom to choose and that doesn't have to be because of a 'fault' with Mint, there are no 'faults', just choices. It's nobody's 'fault' that Mint isn't the biggest OS in the world, and that's not a 'direction' I'd ever personally want to see, sure it may be nice to see Mint on some hardware in a shop, but for that you need a 'company'.

The way i see it is 'Linux' has pretty much already adopted 'the right direction', it's everywhere already. Your thread could go on forever, because there is no 'One size fits all' in the desktop OS world, there is choice, and the freedom to choose, and do as you wish, and it doesn't go in a better 'direction' than that.
this is the argument of people who don't understand how technologies evolves

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:59 pm
by mrgoogle
killer de bug wrote:
mrgoogle wrote:now a days developers are working really hard to be make the UI of most distros very simplistic and easy to understand for everyone but to me they are stil going the wrong the direction because of these reasons;
First of all, please note that your opinion is, well, only your opinion. So unless you can backup your statement with strong data, it will stay only your opinion.

You should also note that Cinnamon has become very popular whereas Mate has still a strong user base. In Microsoft world, the menu is back since 8.1. This should give you a strong hint that people don't want minimalist interface. On the contrary they want a desktop where they can easily work.

Now we have 2 situations. Either you take for granted that people like the current desktops (and we have a few of them). Or you consider that you can do better and you do better. If people use your creation and if they like it, then you win. Congratulation. Otherwise, you will still have you own perfect DE. Congratulation.

But criticisms based on wind are not helpful and in fact they are a waste of time. :wink:

tl;dr: do it yourself or stop complaining. :mrgreen:
i have interviewed so many employees from other companies; to say that this is an embarrassing answer/statement coming from a professional, if your not a professional then its OK announcing this as much as you like bcoz most people are very "understanding" and optimistic

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:18 pm
by mrgoogle
Ark987 wrote: I've already said before that I would love to see a commercial Linux Desktop Environment for consumers with some nice enterprise features like connecting to network share and some management perks out of the box. Of course this DE should support all major distros. Beware that you won't be able to please everybody and if your company grow big the public will hate every change you apply :roll:
with all due of respect, this quote"Beware that you won't be able to please everybody and if your company grow big the public will hate every change you apply" is just a myth, its simply because As the business size grow, the further you get distant from the people making it difficult to "CONNECT" to them. That's the weakness of every huge businesses http://regeneration-station.com/2008/01 ... -and-cons/ http://www.employmentcrossing.com/artic ... Companies/ http://smallbusiness.chron.com/advantag ... 23667.html http://smallbusiness.chron.com/advantag ... 21007.html HOWEVER the apple former CEO steve jobs was able to overcome this ; which is why you can find his name on every college businesses and marketing books.
just think of it this way; the linux community is the small company/business while the tech giants are the big businesses/companies; and compare it to the real-world; the linux-community is like a small business that doesn't know how to make use of its advantages or strengths against the big businesses, which can be proven by just reading all the previous post and not to mention they also believe in many businesses myths as well, but what really disappointed me the most is the developers/admins who is suppose to be the most intelligent people on this forum, they also believe in these myths as well like the idea of the"best operating system", one of the biggest myths of all time

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:20 pm
by Fragezeichen
daveinuk wrote:
mrgoogle wrote: market segmentation research, our target people, targeted marketing vs mass marketing, market industry, marketing experts, good product, market-share, multiple market industries, our target people, our target market, target market and objective, competitive advantage, the industry, adoption rate
It strikes me that you have 'Us' confused with some other commercial venture that is trying it's hardest to be ' Top Dog'. Here at Mint HQ, 'We' don't give a crap, if 'we' don't like 'the direction' we can jump ship, taking our donations of money, and donations of time spent voluntarily helping others, with us, or 'we' can alter, customise, and tweak to our hearts content.

'The Direction' is in part, up to the general 'wants' of the community, isn't this the reason why Mint exists in the first place? 'Someone', (the big cheese Mr L) decided to 'do it his way' in a nutshell, and on the strength of that relationship betweeen him, the devs and the users feedback, it has progressed very nicely ever since.

So you see, 'we' are not a 'company', in an 'Industry' seeking approval from a 'market', 'we' are a community, who's ideas and choices are put into action, then put out there for you to decide whether you want to use them or not, and it's fine if you don't. 'We' don't even mind helping people who have tried and found they don't like it and want help to go back to whatever they used before, without getting our jimmies all rustled, because they have the freedom to choose and that doesn't have to be because of a 'fault' with Mint, there are no 'faults', just choices. It's nobody's 'fault' that Mint isn't the biggest OS in the world, and that's not a 'direction' I'd ever personally want to see, sure it may be nice to see Mint on some hardware in a shop, but for that you need a 'company'.

The way i see it is 'Linux' has pretty much already adopted 'the right direction', it's everywhere already. Your thread could go on forever, because there is no 'One size fits all' in the desktop OS world, there is choice, and the freedom to choose, and do as you wish, and it doesn't go in a better 'direction' than that.
Well said!

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:16 am
by mrgoogle
Fragezeichen wrote:
daveinuk wrote: It strikes me that you have 'Us' confused with some other commercial venture that is trying it's hardest to be ' Top Dog'. Here at Mint HQ, 'We' don't give a crap, if 'we' don't like 'the direction' we can jump ship, taking our donations of money, and donations of time spent voluntarily helping others, with us, or 'we' can alter, customise, and tweak to our hearts content.

'The Direction' is in part, up to the general 'wants' of the community, isn't this the reason why Mint exists in the first place? 'Someone', (the big cheese Mr L) decided to 'do it his way' in a nutshell, and on the strength of that relationship betweeen him, the devs and the users feedback, it has progressed very nicely ever since.

So you see, 'we' are not a 'company', in an 'Industry' seeking approval from a 'market', 'we' are a community, who's ideas and choices are put into action, then put out there for you to decide whether you want to use them or not, and it's fine if you don't. 'We' don't even mind helping people who have tried and found they don't like it and want help to go back to whatever they used before, without getting our jimmies all rustled, because they have the freedom to choose and that doesn't have to be because of a 'fault' with Mint, there are no 'faults', just choices. It's nobody's 'fault' that Mint isn't the biggest OS in the world, and that's not a 'direction' I'd ever personally want to see, sure it may be nice to see Mint on some hardware in a shop, but for that you need a 'company'.

The way i see it is 'Linux' has pretty much already adopted 'the right direction', it's everywhere already. Your thread could go on forever, because there is no 'One size fits all' in the desktop OS world, there is choice, and the freedom to choose, and do as you wish, and it doesn't go in a better 'direction' than that.
Well said!
This is a free world so everyone can just have the right to have their own believes and opinions. When you say something somebody else is gonna interpret in the wrong way depending on his/her level of education and intelligence. This is my thread and im here to erase all the myths that most people believes and continues to spread around. If you know the basics of how psychology works out then, you know im helping you through education because if we carefully analyze all the entire posts here then; im like an old man trying his best to teach lil kids A,B and C alphabets. And if your an intelligent individual, then you better stop this nonsense and stick with the main question or topic that's yet to be answered;" is the linux desktop environment still going the direction?"

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:28 am
by Moem
mrgoogle wrote:This is my thread and im here to erase all the myths that most people believes and continues to spread around. If you know the basics of how psychology works out then, you know im helping you through education because if we carefully analyze all the entire posts here then; im like an old man trying his best to teach lil kids A,B and C alphabets.
So that is, finally, the answer to the question what you are trying to do with this thread. Took you long enough to answer a straighforward question, from an admin no less.
mrgoogle wrote:And if your an intelligent individual, then you better stop this nonsense and stick with the main question or topic that's yet to be answered;" is the linux desktop environment still going the direction?"
It's not been answered because it's barely coherent. Which Linux desktop environment and which direction?
If you consider the sketches that you posted to be 'the direction', then the question simply becomes 'Is the Linux desktop [environment] going in the direction that Mr Google would like to see?'
And that is a question that you alone can answer. But I suspect the answer is no. Unfortunately, you are going to be the only one who cares.

Go ahead and call me dumb, you know you want to. Such a great teaching tool.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:25 am
by BigEasy
mrgoogle wrote:stick with the main question or topic that's yet to be answered;" is the linux desktop environment still going the direction?"
Which of linux desktop environments you mean? There is a lot of it.

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:55 am
by mrgoogle
M0em wrote: So that is, finally, the answer to the question what you are trying to do with this thread. Took you long enough to answer a straighforward question, from an admin no less.
then make your questions much clearer next time

Re: is the linux desktop environment still going the directi

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:21 am
by killer de bug
mrgoogle wrote:This is my thread and im here to erase all the myths that most people believes and continues to spread around. If you know the basics of how psychology works out then, you know im helping you through education because if we carefully analyze all the entire posts here then;
Superb conception of democracy and freedom of opinion on the internet. :?
mrgoogle wrote:im like an old man trying his best to teach lil kids A,B and C alphabets. And if your an intelligent individual, then you better stop this nonsense and stick with the main question or topic that's yet to be answered;" is the linux desktop environment still going the direction?"
Based on this displeasant remark (again), I lock the topic. This debate (?) has been only an opportunity for you to call names on other people. And this since the beginning. This is not going anywhere, it will be better locked.