I cannot convince my family to use Linux

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xfrank
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I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by xfrank » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:36 am

I'm a full Linux user since 2012, but I cannot convince my wife and my sons to use it. I did show them all the advantages to use Linux (stability, no viruses, control over the computer, easy maintenance, etc.), installed Linux in some PCs and laptops (LM, Linux Lite, Manjaro) and did teach to my sons how to use it. No luck. My wife won't use Linux because she's an architect and must use Autocad for her work (she won't use an open source alternative). My older daughter uses intensively Photoshop and won't use Gimp instead. My two younger sons are fanatic gamers and won't rely only on open source games, moreover they prefer to run Steam on a Windows platform. Moreover, nobody except me is using currently LibreOffice as the main Office software. This is the weirdest thing, I'm a writer, I use LO to write essays and books without any problems, and even so, my wife and sons won't change from MS Office to LO.
I'm a bit disappointed. I've done almost everything to promote Linux and Open Source in my family. What else can I do?
Linux everywhere. Active Distros in my many computers: LM17.3 (Cinnamon, Xfce); LM18.1 (Cinnamon,Xfce); LMDE 2 (Mate), MXLinux (Xfce), Debian 9 (Xfce).

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cholq
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by cholq » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:42 am

With my kids, I'd tell them they aren't allowed to touch my linux machines. Nothing would make it more attractive to them than being told it was forbidden :D

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Moem » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:44 am

Let them be. People get to make their own choices, even if you'd prefer them to make a different choice. Whatever you do, don't nag... it'll make Linux look positively unappealing.

My partner is a long time happy Open Suse user. I've been a long time happy Windows user since 1996. He never tried to steer me towards Linux. Last year, I switched to Mint under my own steam, without any hints from him. Sometimes these things happen in their own time! (But don't be disappointed if they don't.)
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Habitual » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:02 am

xfrank wrote:I cannot convince my wife
Been married long? :)

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by daveinuk » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:03 am

xfrank wrote: What else can I do?
Absolutely nothing . . . . . . I'm not even sure that laughing and taunting them would work, or help, if they got infected, might seem a little extreme, however . . . . . . . :wink:
The point is that until they want to use something 'different' and have a need/interest/desire to learn, they have no 'need' to change, people don't like change, they like familiar methods and familiar looks, and most of the time, they only change when no other option is available to them.

And to be fair, why should they? If it works for them . . . . . . . People that like to tinker come here, out of a desire, as a broad generalization. People that just want something to work and don't care what it's called, or how it works, or whether or not it gives them more privacy and freedom, stick with MS, Apple & Android, as long as it gets the job done.

I've personally found that trying to convince people doesn't work as well as showing them and giving a brief but tempting demo, then leaving them to approach and ask me is the best way to do it, but great job trying, the best advert might be running with no issues and leaving them to see exactly that.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by poorguy » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:04 am

I tried to get everyone in my house to just give Linux a try and the wife does use LM however she is always going back to windows.
We have several desktops with Linux and Windows so i leave it up to them as it is easier.
Whatever seems to work is the best peacekeeper there is.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by DwightD » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:30 am

Does she fix breakfast? If not, pack-up and MOVE!!

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Moem » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:43 am

Dwight, why don't you go and make me a sandwich, dudebro.

Oh wait, that's right:
Sudo go and make me a sandwich. 8)
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by z31fanatic » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:52 am

xfrank wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. I've done almost everything to promote Linux and Open Source in my family. What else can I do?
You should get over it. It sounds like they are satisfied with their choice like you are with yours. An operating system is a tool that does the things we need it to do. It is not a religion or a way of life.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Cosmo. » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:22 pm

Free software includes the freedom to not use it.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Ark987 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:31 pm

Pretty much what z31fanatic said, with one exception is not by their choice is what they are "required" to use.

Autocad: There is not much that you can do about it, if she needs to collaborate with other people is not only her that should use Linux alternatives is everyone else in her business circle. Very difficult conversion task, as for sure there will be missing features, compatibility, format issues, etc.

Photoshop: Same story as above, when I mention Gimp to a colleague who works in graphic design, he laughed at me, I supposed that means something...

Windows Games: Reduce the Windows Only game catalog, focus only on cross-platform games. Still you will have to keep Windows around for the old collection until they get tired of it and move on to other interest. Also the Linux catalog is still not that great.

Libre Office: Is middle ground area almost same as Autocad/Photoshop, they are locked in the proprietary formats and possibly features, file collaboration could be a problem if they keep receiving documents in M$ format, the visual representation and compatibility is not 100% and that is what pisses off anybody who needs to delivery anything with a tight deadline.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by xfrank » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:43 pm

Cosmo. wrote:Free software includes the freedom to not use it.
also @ z31fanatic and @ daveinuk

This is right. My enthusiasm about Open Source software is not shared by my relatives, and I must accept it. :roll:
Last edited by xfrank on Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Linux everywhere. Active Distros in my many computers: LM17.3 (Cinnamon, Xfce); LM18.1 (Cinnamon,Xfce); LMDE 2 (Mate), MXLinux (Xfce), Debian 9 (Xfce).

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by xfrank » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:46 pm

Habitual wrote:
xfrank wrote:I cannot convince my wife
Been married long? :)
24 years 8)
Linux everywhere. Active Distros in my many computers: LM17.3 (Cinnamon, Xfce); LM18.1 (Cinnamon,Xfce); LMDE 2 (Mate), MXLinux (Xfce), Debian 9 (Xfce).

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by xfrank » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:55 pm

Ark987 wrote:Pretty much what z31fanatic said, with one exception is not by their choice is what they are "required" to use.

Autocad: There is not much that you can do about it, if she needs to collaborate with other people is not only her that should use Linux alternatives is everyone else in her business circle. Very difficult conversion task, as for sure there will be missing features, compatibility, format issues, etc.

Photoshop: Same story as above, when I mention Gimp to a colleague who works in graphic design, he laughed at me, I supposed that means something...

Windows Games: Reduce the Windows Only game catalog, focus only on cross-platform games. Still you will have to keep Windows around for the old collection until they get tired of it and move on to other interest. Also the Linux catalog is still not that great.

Libre Office: Is middle ground area almost same as Autocad/Photoshop, they are locked in the proprietary formats and possibly features, file collaboration could be a problem if they keep receiving documents in M$ format, the visual representation and compatibility is not 100% and that is what pisses off anybody who needs to delivery anything with a tight deadline.
OK. Autocad and Photoshop are a forced choice in a professional environment, that's the reality. About games, I can push my sons to install Steam on Linux and let's see what happens, but there is still the problem of some Windows-only games. Maybe they could get accustomed to switch between MS and Linux in a dual boot arrangement.
LibreOffice is perfect when using mostly Writer (like me), because the compatibility with MS formats (doc, docx) is close to 100% and the program is very capable and efficent. Less so with Calc and Impress. Let's see what will happens, I'll try to push LO a bit more to my sons (I give up with my wife).
Linux everywhere. Active Distros in my many computers: LM17.3 (Cinnamon, Xfce); LM18.1 (Cinnamon,Xfce); LMDE 2 (Mate), MXLinux (Xfce), Debian 9 (Xfce).

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by sphyrth » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:21 pm

Almost everybody here agrees that you can't just push people to something that doesn't meet their needs,
as well as the fact that they already have something that has their needs met.

Although not really about it, it relates to the "What about Proprietary Software?" section in our FAQ:
"We believe in Open Source as a choice, not as a constraint."

But the way I see it, if your family is to embrace Linux, they first have to embrace the philosophy surrounding it. I'm not a Stallman-ite, but I try to make a shift to Open Source alternatives as long as there is one. I don't care if there is a steep learning curve, as long as I get to switch entirely, all because of the philosophy of Open Source. And since we're talking about personal views, which I can't force someone to change, it will all end up in your family's choice whether to switch or not.
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by GreyGeek » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:35 pm

Ever try to convince an avid user of distro X to try distro Y? Same problem. When people get confortable with an OS (Windows or Linux) they usually don't want to move unless extremely aggravating conditions force them to. That was my case 18 years ago after using Windows since its 287 version. Win95 on a brand new Sony VAIO crashed so many times between the day I bought it and five months later I was forced to reinstall it five times. I got fed up and decided to go back to OS/2 with Win 3.1 FWG running is the DOS box, which was very stable. At Barns & Noble, which was where one went to buy an OS in those days, while looking for an OS/2 box, I saw a paperback titled "Learn Linux in 24 Hours" by BIll Brush. It had a RH 5.0 CD in the back. Just $25. I took it home and tried it out. That Sony which wasn't able to run continuously for 30 minutes without crashing was suddenly as stable as a rock. It never crashed once during the next four months, which was when I saw an ad for SuSE 5.3 featuring the KDE 1.0 beta desktop. I've been running KDE every since. Eighteen years. I've tried other DE's but haven't found them to my liking. I installed cinnamon on my Mint KDE 17.3 so I could try it out. I am extremely familiar with KDE and it is only by association of similar areas that I am able to use cinnamon moderately well. It's the same with your family who use Windows. They don't want to learn new tricks.

Don't force them. At one time, a few years ago, I was supporting over a dozen Windows users, most my age (late 60's at the time) or older. Mainly because they attended the church I attended. They would complain about their windows problems and ask me to come over and fix Windows because they knew I wrote software and at one time sold and supported computers. It got tiresome to be called back to fix the same problem over and over (usually viruses or tampering with the cables or settings), so I told them that I was no longer supporting Windows and if they wanted me to continue to support their system they'd have to allow me to replace Windows with Linux. A dozen or so agreed. Over the next few years my support calls were essentially zero, unless a grandson forced a CDROM closed without properly seating the CD tray. All of the older folks have passed on. Only two remain. One wanted to return to Windows. "That's fine", I said, "but don't expect me to support Windows." His wife stayed with Linux for the next couple years, until last weekend. She had switched back to Win7 a couple months ago and now was having problems and wanted me to remove Linux because she thought that Linux was causing the problems. I checked her machine. The Windows partition had 9 active viruses and 2 keyboard loggers. I removed Linux, left the malware and told her to take the machine to a computer store that has a good service shop so they could clean her machine. She called my wife a couple days ago and while talking mentioned that the computer store was still trying to clean the machine. ??? The other one asked me this Sunday to come over and set up the new monitor. He's entering his sixth year of using Kubuntu Linux. My next visit will be the third.

My advice is to not bother them about switching to Mint, but the next time they ask you to "fix" their Windows installation just say "I don't do Windows".

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by Pierre » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:11 am

that "closed shop" mentality by windows users - you can't change it.
:(
you won't get them to move from those proprietary ones from Adobe,
as they are so specialised. .. open sourced alternatives - just won't cut it.

the linux system is great for people who just want to use their computer,
for fairly general, mundane stuff, and those who wish to get away from those virus's & such like.

another issue, that will arise in the near future, is that lots of that software,
that was available, principally under win_xp - will no longer be available, or installable.
ie: technology will move onwards.
so - things like burning your own disks - there will be no way to do that,
just like there is some that still want their "old" video tapes copied to disk.
- that is getting harder to do, unless you already have those machines & the right software.

in the foreseeable future - if it's not available in the system's 'online store' - then you want be able to do that.
ie: there is no app for that. .. ..
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by jimallyn » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:37 am

Different strokes for different folks. Some people will switch to Linux, some won't. There are people I know who I have told about Linux many times, and they just refuse to even try it. Then there's the woman for whom I am de-malware-ing two Win7 computers. I told her about Linux, open source software, and collaborative software projects, and the next time I saw her she said she was intrigued with the idea of Linux. When I get all the malware off her computers, I'm going to dual boot both of them, as she desires. I have a feeling she won't be using Windows much longer.
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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by LinuxJim » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:32 am

xfrank wrote:I'm a full Linux user since 2012, but I cannot convince my wife and my sons to use it.
[...]
I'm a bit disappointed. I've done almost everything to promote Linux and Open Source in my family. What else can I do?
Full time Linux user since the day Linus posted it on Usenet (23 years? groan..). Of course, I've used a bunch of different operating systems over the course of my career (I've even written a number of real-time embedded OS's). But Linux has been the constant. My wife & kids also use Linux - with joy!

Linux is for tinkerers. Period. It's been that way from day one. You have to have that inclination - the nebulous quality that makes you search for a screwdriver when the doorknob is loose, rather that wait for somebody else to fix it. The need to know WHY the car is suddenly getting lousy gas mileage, rather than shrugging your shoulders and driving it into the ground.

So, if your family is so inclined, just let them watch you. Perhaps set up some 'killer' demonstrations. Get a Raspberry Pi and set up a media center with it. Take some family photos and process them with The Gimp - then show your wife. Also show her DarkTable if she uses Lightroom. Figure out what your family members tend to do over and over again on their computers - then write some scripts to automate the process in Linux.

Show the kids some Steam games. Let them play around with a Raspberry Pi. See if you can get them into making some simple games with Python.

Watch a few YouTube videos about the evils of Windows 10 - not the moronic Windows-bashing ones, but sensible ones that point out all the privacy and security issues, how Microsoft is *really* pushing as far as it can get away with. How Microsoft no longer cares about customer feedback (not that it ever really did), but is more interested in going to bed with the NSA. How Microsoft has replaced 'choice' with 'force'. How Apple is becoming the "new Microsoft". There's no end to legitimate, level-headed evidence. Stay away from the nut cases.

There's a fine line between exhuberant and pushy, especially among family. Know where that line is in your family.

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Re: I cannot convince my family to use Linux

Post by sphyrth » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:33 am

GreyGeek wrote: ...I told them that I was no longer supporting Windows
and if they wanted me to continue to support their system they'd have to allow me to replace Windows with Linux.
A dozen or so agreed.
Over the next few years my support calls were essentially zero....
Coooool!
GreyGeek wrote: She ... wanted me to remove Linux because she thought that Linux was causing the problems.
The Windows partition had 9 active viruses and 2 keyboard loggers.
I removed Linux, left the malware and told her to take the machine to a computer store
...
the computer store was still trying to clean the machine. ???
Few things to be sad about:
1. The blame being put to Linux (which is somewhat normal for non-techies)
2. The store doesn't seem to be able to clean the machine (and might not even admitting it)
3. The potential waste of money because of #2 (especially that elderly people are prone to get scammed)
GreyGeek wrote: My advice is to not bother them about switching to Mint,
but the next time they ask you to "fix" their Windows installation
just say "I don't do Windows".
Kind of mean, but at least you have a reason. :D
I have a favorite game. It's on my Youtube Channel.

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