[Solved] Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

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DeMus
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by DeMus » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:27 pm

Well, I have written this before and I will do it again since I strongly believe in it: choice is good, but too much choice is NOT good.
In the Linux world we really have too much choice. I really think that is why software producers, who do write programs for the Windows platform don't do this for Linux.
If they have to satisfy the whole Linux world they have to build so many different versions. It starts with rpm and deb packages, it continues with (in the deb world) versions suitable for Debian, versions for Ubuntu cause they have a different way of doing things, then there is the matter of the version numbers. In the rpm world we have Redhat, we have OpenSuse which is totally different even though they also use the rpm packages. And it goes on and on.
Which software company can afford it to release his product in so many different versions, knowing that for each version the market is soo small. Consequence: they don't do it.
When there would be one underlying system for all distro's, software companies only have to make one Linux version of their product plus the market for that one product would be larger since it concerns the whole Linux world, not 1000 small Linux worlds which are all different.

Sure, we can have different DE's, we can have distro's which, by default, install package A while others install package B of the same type of program. We don't want another Windows where there is no choice at all, but too much choice is what keeps Linux small. Mind my words.

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kyphi
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by kyphi » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:23 pm

Linux is the core and you can collate a number of applications to run on that core to meet your particular needs.
It is not that hard to do and when done, gives a great sense of accomplishment to its creator. Hence we have a lot of compilations or distros.

The choice as to which distro best suits your needs is yours to make and you can customise it to your heart's content. My Linux Mint will look and function differently to your Linux Mint.

Linux users are better informed about computers and their operating systems as opposed to Windows users. Ask a Windows user how many computer operating systems they know about and you may receive a blank look. As a Linux user I know that I have choice and made that choice 11 years ago. That is something to be valued.

Like Linux, I too am free.

In response to the title of this thread: There have always been more fools than wise men (or women).
Last edited by kyphi on Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cosmo.
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by Cosmo. » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:25 pm

deepakdeshp wrote:OS should be plain and simple
Mint works plain and simple on my hardware, which I selected carefully.

Usually people don't buy a car, just because it is the next dealer to their home and the first car they when they enter the shop. And they also don#T buy a car because it is shown mostly in TV advertisements. If people forget to think about their decision to buy, they get most likely the wrong hardware (car or computer or ...). A classical customer mistake.

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Jim Hauser
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by Jim Hauser » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:42 pm

I have to agree with Cosmo. Mint KDE works on my hardware perfectly.

For many years folks just assumed that Windows was the only way to go. There were some folks who liked Apple and others who used systems designed by "geeks" for "geeks" called Linux. I used Windows because everyone else was and you could find Windows compatible software quite easily.

When support for Windows XP ended I dug through my CD/DVD collection and found Mint 16 Cinnamon. I did not like the newer versions of Windows so I played around with Mint for a couple of weeks. I downloaded quite a few different Linux distros for a while but eventually settled on Mint.

I doubt if the number of Linux distros has anything to do with it's lack of popularity. If folks do not want to do any work installing an operating system they will probably run Windows. If folks like the idea of making choices they will probably choose Linux.

Cheers!

Jim

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:55 am

Cosmo. wrote:
deepakdeshp wrote:OS should be plain and simple
Mint works plain and simple on my hardware, which I selected carefully.
Very true. Unfortunately at present one needs to buy Linux compatible hardware very carefully whereas ALL h/w is certified for Wondows. I confess that I dint choose Linux compatible hardware hence facing the driver problems.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

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Jim Hauser
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by Jim Hauser » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:40 am

Unfortunately at present one needs to buy Linux compatible hardware very carefully
I have been buying my hardware very carefully long before I heard of Linux. I ended up liking AMD, Nvidia video cards and HP printers/scanners. All of them work well with every Linux distro that I have ever tried.

This past May I upgraded my equipment (8 core FX-8350 with 16 gigabytes memory.) It all worked with Mint without a single problem. As mentioned earlier it is up to hardware manufacturers to provide any drivers required by their targeted operating systems. Some are quite good about Linux.

Cheers!

Jim

DeMus
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by DeMus » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:03 am

Jim Hauser wrote:As mentioned earlier it is up to hardware manufacturers to provide any drivers required by their targeted operating systems. Some are quite good about Linux.

Cheers!

Jim
Correct. 100%.
Their targeted operating systemS.
When there is one Windows version, and soon there will be, and let's say a 100 different types of Linux systems, what do you think will happen with those drivers? They will be made for Windows since with one version of the driver they can reach 90% of the world, and those 100 different Linux versions?? Will they ever be written? Forget it. If there were only just a couple of different Linux systems (2-3 tops) then the hardware suppliers would make those different versions since with a little effort they can reach 10% of the market, but now? Forget it.
It's the same for proprietary software. It's all made for Windows, and not for those 100+ different Linux systems. Reason: too much work and costs, too little profit.

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by Cosmo. » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:55 am

deepakdeshp wrote:whereas ALL h/w is certified for Wondows. I confess that I dint choose Linux compatible hardware hence facing the driver problems.
Simple reason: If you buy a computer with Windows installed (that is the case for about 90 % + of all computers) and anything will not work, the vendor has to correct this (at least in countries as here in Germany). If something should fail t work, the computers could not be sold at all.

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:16 am

sikejsudjek wrote: . Valve plus AMD, Intel and Nvidia are all backing gaming with Vulcan, which has the potential to revolutionise Linux gaming..
This will help gaming. But will they help the non gaming user?Also I feel that Vulcan will cater to the latest devices and not the older devices.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:27 pm

I had 2 problems for my laptop that is
1.Sound volume was not as loud as Windows
2.Wi-fi signal wasnt as strong as windows. This was vital as internet stopped working when I carried my laptop in another room.

Both these were tuning problem and not hardware driver problems at all. Thanks to the wonderful Mint community both were solved in a matter of hours.I had opened a thread for the problems.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=227151&p=1198999#p1198999
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by groze » Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:29 pm

I am dual booter, but I am using Linux mint xfce desktop edition most of the time, I do go into windows 7 sp1 for some stuff that doesn't work on Linux even with wine installed. Another issues it is hard to play protected content on Linux. Google chrome 64 bit will work but does not play all protected content yet.


I know why so people think Linux is not secure. I don't agree with everything they say on this (Link below).

https://blogs.sophos.com/2015/03/26/don ... -security/

I am pretty sure I know the reason why they said some of that.

deepakdeshp wrote:Linux desktop has a wide variety of distribution like Mint, Ubuntu, damn small ,puppy, Fedora
Then there are many desktops like Cinnamon XFCE, GNOME etc. Having so much choice is confusing which prevents competing with Windows. Hence this wide variety is not a good point for Linux

What is your opinion ?
That what I like about Linux you can choose your favorite desktop unlike windows you only get one. I use Linux Mint XFCE.

deepakdeshp
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:58 pm

In response to the title of this thread: There have always been more fools than wise men (or women).
But market is driven by numbers. For a large number of fools, large variety of goods will be available. Similarly for Windows large number of applications are available compared to Linux, and here I talk about desktop Linux, not about servers or Android or Raspberries.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:02 pm

DeMus wrote:Well, I have written this before and I will do it again since I strongly believe in it: choice is good, but too much choice is NOT good.
.
Very well said and put forth. That is what I meant !
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

curlybracket chris
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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by curlybracket chris » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:54 pm

I'm a bit surprised by the pessimistic tone of this conversation. I was drawn to Mint by many shortcomings in the Windows business model:

1. Superfluous OS and application updates, like Windows Vista, with little or no added value. Crosses the line with 10 lengths to spare.

2. Superfluous changes to applications that send me scrambling around the menu system, like a rat in a maze, to find basic commands.

3. Applications that continue to morph long after they reach excellence, constantly increasing in complexity. AutoCAD is the poster child for this. Newer, more complex objects and controls are constantly rolled out and take a lot of time to learn. Most are well-considered, but AutoCAD has been an outstanding application since Release 12 in the DOS days. I want a tool, not a temple.

4. Thanks to my hero, Edward Snowden, I now fear security backdoors in all proprietary software and websites. Secrecy always carries a price, often a very high one. Digressing from my prepared remarks, Pardon Snowden NOW!! His actions were altruistic and uniquely ethical.

I have found LibreOffice to be less stable than Word and Excel but I prefer the former. Limited resources force a desirable frugality into LibreOffice, and I can hope no one moves my cheese until it is necessary. In a 21st century of overwhelming complexity most adults prefer familiar tools with obvious uses.

In contrast, the role of the Windows/Apple cyber-world is to harness capitalistic forces to drive technological innovation. This pursues secrecy, return on investment, monopoly, corporate arrogance, and a host of other well-known problem children that Linux need not concern itself with.

In addition, all computing is compelled to unwanted change because of its enormous abstraction. It is hard to figure out someone else's code. Perhaps I am not alone in awe of the number of new concepts I need to learn as a newbie, just to write a bash script to execute an Openvpn call.

Progress is not continuous, but occurs in leaps by extraordinary individuals blessed with both vision and a bit of luck. I've heard the Truecrypt developers threw in the towel rather than allow their vision to be diluted by a world of developers who just did not see the big picture from their perspective.

This is a valid concern, and the Achilles heal of profit-driven computing. Sooner or later, Microsoft's board of executives will fill with financiers with no instinct for digital innovation, and another Bill Gates with a different name and a different face will eat them for breakfast. Linux will escape that fate. Let us celebrate today with a pint of Haagen Dazs

I hope Linux Mint will assume the role of the turtle, to Microsoft's hare. Plodding along, fixing bugs, observing new gadgets and concepts, eschewing fads and embracing the true gems of hardware and software. We are still at the dawn of the computer age with a wonderful frontier in front of us. In the long run, Linux should be an increasingly stable and familiar OS that eventually sets a high bar for form and function, an incoming tide lifting all boats. Time is on your side, ladies and gentlemen of open source, and unimagined treasures await.

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by InkKnife » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:04 pm

Ugh, the old "confusion" argument.
Gnu/Linux does not operate by the same economic rules as a commercial OS. Mass adoption is not necessary and I would say, unwanted. All GNU/Linux needs is enough developers interested in developing for the platform and numerical growth in users. It has both.
I come from a Mac background and one thing I see in the Linux community is this weird inferiority complex about market-share. It is perfectly fine being a niche platform. It is better than fine, it's the best way to be.
Being the majority platform comes at great cost. Using Windows means being under attack, all the time. Keeping a stable of anti-malware apps on hand, running performance and stability damaging anti-virus. Windows is like living in a very densely populated area with a very high crime rate. No thank you...
I would prefer that the GNU/Linux desktop market share never got over 5% at the most.
GNU/Linux is for people who think about their computers. People who care about choice, ethics, freedom. That is never going to be a very large percentage of the population and that is fine.
i7 3770, 12GB of ram, 256GB SSD, 64GB SSD, 750GB HDD, 1TB HDD, Cinnamon.

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deleted » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:00 am

I've bought plain ole PCs and used them for Linux only boxes since about 2007.
Including Dell, HP, Acer, and Asus. I've bought pretty much what was on sale, Intel/AMD, NVidia/ATI/Intel graphics, UEFI/non-UEFI and have had little or no problems.
-Hinto

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:11 am

InkKnife wrote: I would prefer that the GNU/Linux desktop market share never got over 5% at the most.
GNU/Linux is for people who think about their computers. People who care about choice, ethics, freedom. That is never going to be a very large percentage of the population and that is fine.
I myself am a Linux fan but feel bad that such an ace OS should have so little following in the desktop market.
More software applications will be available only for the os used by the majority and that is unfortunately windows. And what is the os.but an instrument to let the user have lot of good and complicated software.

Let us face it. Many windows softwares do not have an equally powerful Linux equivalents. Gimp is good but the professionals will always go for Photoshop. There are many such examples.

So unless Linux has a wide following it will not have lots of professional software. And with limited software masses will not adopt it. This is one factor which keeps Linux from being adopted by the masses.There are other factors like familiarity with M$. Money power of MS etc.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB


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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by deepakdeshp » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:40 am

Linux os a powerful os . In servers it has a large share and in supercomputers and maiframes itvis a monopoly.

But in desktops and laptops the share isnt even 2%
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

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Re: Linux as a desktop OS has low acceptance

Post by InkKnife » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:07 pm

deepakdeshp wrote:
Linux os a powerful os . In servers it has a large share and in supercomputers and maiframes itvis a monopoly.

But in desktops and laptops the share isnt even 2%
And that is fine. Windows and OSX have become as popular as they are because of over thirty years of multi-million $$$ advertising and promotions.
Linux runs the entire world, the desktop is the scraps that are left over for Apple and MS.
i7 3770, 12GB of ram, 256GB SSD, 64GB SSD, 750GB HDD, 1TB HDD, Cinnamon.

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