KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

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Jedinovice
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KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by Jedinovice »

I know there have been mutterings about KDE Plasma 5 and certain regressions. It is true that Plasma 5 does not really bring any improvements to the desktop from 4. But Plasma 5 is not about the desktop, it's about mobile.

This is what KDE is about:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-anno ... 7187.shtml
Work on the Kirigami user interface framework started back in March 2016, when the KDE development team announced their plans for creating one of the most powerful and sophisticated tools that would allow application developers to build cross-platform Qt-based apps for mobile platforms.
Love it or loath it, KDE are courting mobile.

Personally, I can understand it. The vast majority of one time computer users are not interested in full blown computers. They just want the internet really. So Chromebooks and smartphones are where the sales are now.

The trouble is that any UI developer that has gone for convergence has generally thrown the desktop user under a bus.

Ubuntu/Unity = smart phone on the desktop. But at least it's usable and appeals to the average user who actually REALLY LIKES using a laptop like a mobile phone. Hell for a power user, though and certainly Unity is not really a desktop UI. It's more a smartphone UI on a desktop (and such was GNOME's thinking where Unity came form.)

GNOME 3 = originally abandoned the desktop user and caused immediate forks to Cinnamon and Mate! Gnome had to quietly, gently, creep back to the desktop.

Windows 8 = Threw desktop users under a steam roller and reversed back over them... several times pouring lime over the bodies. Failed to get the mobile market and had to creep back to desktop mode with Windows 10… and Microsoft are still alienating users.

Apple got it but went with a completely different OS for mobile devices.

So I give credit to KDE for seeking convergence without throwing users under the mobile bus. Plasma 5 is MUCH like Plasma 4 with only a few regressions. So credit where credit is due. But convergence always comes at a price for the desktop. No surprise some features have been lost.
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thom_A
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by thom_A »

I understand developers' need and focus for mobile devices. Heck, a lot of people use their mobiles majority of the time and I rarely see friends and relatives use their computers. Same people who used to rely heavily on them.

But why the convergence and not just leave the desktop alone? Why assume other people are no longer using desktop computers? Microsoft did it in Windows 8 and all kinds of curse words were thrown at them.

It's apples and bananas. One is a mere display with touch screen technology and the other requires keyboard and pointing device. Vastly different devices that require different user interfaces.
Jedinovice
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by Jedinovice »

thom_A wrote:I understand developers' need and focus for mobile devices. Heck, a lot of people use their mobiles majority of the time and I rarely see friends and relatives use their computers. Same people who used to rely heavily on them.

But why the convergence and not just leave the desktop alone? Why assume other people are no longer using desktop computers? Microsoft did it in Windows 8 and all kinds of curse words were thrown at them.

It's apples and bananas. One is a mere display with touch screen technology and the other requires keyboard and pointing device. Vastly different devices that require different user interfaces.

Well, as I said, KDE do not seem to have done this! It get the impression that the APIs have been changed so that KDE behaves differently on different devices rather than imposing tablet mode on everything - though is seems to have led to a couple of regressions.

But all the other attempts, yeah.
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KBD47
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by KBD47 »

Linux will never beat out Apple or Android on mobile. They have too large of a lead. I once thought it might happen--indeed it has if you count Android as Linux--but see Linux as a more powerful OS for servers and power users and those wanting freedom on the desktop/laptop from Windows. While there was never a 'year of the Linux desktop' Chromebooks are eating both Apple and Window's lunch in the classroom and will continue to do so and ChromeOS is based on Linux.
I think KDE is kidding themselves, and may lose fans who wanted KDE for its power as a great Linux desktop. It was my first ever Linux desktop, and I hate to see it chasing mobile like Ubuntu. It is a lost cause IMO.
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by thom_A »

While computer sales have declined, it doesn't mean people have stopped using them. It also means the computers they currently have which they bought years ago are still very usable and have no need to buy a new one. They still exist in millions of homes and offices.

It will probably take decades to see mobiles operate the same way as a powerful desktop that requires heat sinks and fans in its internals. I can't imagine using Gimp or Photoshop on a mobile without heating up.

Mobiles are mainly used for communications and internet browsing and the social media.

Microsoft got these tv ads showing touch screen power virtually telling you to discard your desktops. Well, I can't see the ergonomic sense of holding a 12" mobile touching its screen all day compared to your hand resting on the table while moving your mouse. It's so silly.
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by KBD47 »

thom_A wrote:While computer sales have declined, it doesn't mean people have stopped using them. It also means the computers they currently have which they bought years ago are still very usable and have no need to buy a new one. They still exist in millions of homes and offices.

It will probably take decades to see mobiles operate the same way as a powerful desktop that requires heat sinks and fans in its internals. I can't imagine using Gimp or Photoshop on a mobile without heating up.

Mobiles are mainly used for communications and internet browsing and the social media.

Microsoft got these tv ads showing touch screen power virtually telling you to discard your desktops. Well, I can't see the ergonomic sense of holding a 12" mobile touching its screen all day compared to your hand resting on the table while moving your mouse. It's so silly.
I agree. Also, word processing is useless on a tablet. For serious writing and reports nothing takes the place of a desktop/laptop.
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BG405
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by BG405 »

thom_A wrote:While computer sales have declined, it doesn't mean people have stopped using them. It also means the computers they currently have which they bought years ago are still very usable and have no need to buy a new one.
This is often overlooked!
thom_A wrote:I can't imagine using Gimp or Photoshop on a mobile without heating up.
Mobiles are mainly used for communications and internet browsing and the social media.
I can't imagine using Gimp, Photoshop or anything else which requires any degree of optical precision with a touch-only interface. As for processing capabilities I also agree that bigger is usually going to be better, even in the long run, with many parts having already come close to their theoretical minimum size threshold.
thom_A wrote:Microsoft got these tv ads showing touch screen power virtually telling you to discard your desktops. Well, I can't see the ergonomic sense of holding a 12" mobile touching its screen all day compared to your hand resting on the table while moving your mouse. It's so silly.
"The tablet that can replace your laptop." Seriously? ONE USB port? I need a mouse AND a keyboard, as well as the ability to connect other devices. So you now need a powered hub.

Even my netbooks have three.

A very expensive OPTIONAL keyboard? Should be included. And on the smaller tablets that single USB socket also doubles as the charging port; making your tablet effectively useless for any extended period of operation without buying an OTG hub. These often have their own issues.
KBD47 wrote:Also, word processing is useless on a tablet. For serious writing and reports nothing takes the place of a desktop/laptop.
+1. It's back to one-fingered typing with no proper tactile feedback and it is often unavoidably in the way of something you're trying to work on. So are the fingerprints if you've been using it for a while.
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thom_A
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by thom_A »

BG405 wrote:As for processing capabilities I also agree that bigger is usually going to be better, even in the long run, with many parts having already come close to their theoretical minimum size threshold.
I almost bought an Aspire 12" tablet years ago when it was displayed at BestBuy. It was running a full version of Windows 7. I thought to myself, "It can't possibly run apps that require advanced processing power. What about the temperature? How can they pack all those chips in there without heating up? It must also be very slow." Then I touched the back of the device and it was burning hot. It wasn't even running any application. Now I don't see them anymore. Even if they're already available, it must be awkward just using your fingers or stylus without a keyboard to be able to do something productive.
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by thom_A »

Anyone tried OpenMandriva Lx 3.0?

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=09515
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by DeMus »

thom_A wrote:Anyone tried OpenMandriva Lx 3.0?

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=09515
Wanted to but I couldn't boot it in a VM. Got stuck at the black screen with a blinking cursor in the live version and in the installer.
Have been waiting for it for a long time and now it doesn't work.

Oops, I was too impatient. It did boot into a black screen but after some time the mouse-cursor did appear and I could install it. Will have some fun with it.
@jedinovice: KDE is 5.6.5
thom_A
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by thom_A »

Seems Netrunner 1 "Maui" is okay.

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=09517

The USB live booted without a glitch. Very different from my experience with latest Kubuntu and other Plasma-based distros. It seems well-organized too. But I have to check the installed version and see if I could run my main applications, graphics tablet, appimages, etc. If this is KDE's future, then it's time to start embracing it.

I couldn't even get the OpenMandriva Lx 3.0 to boot and it's giving me something like;

Generating "/run/init...
Entering emergency mode...

dracut:/#_
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Pepi
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by Pepi »

thom_A wrote:Anyone tried OpenMandriva Lx 3.0?

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=09515

I've been testing it from a USB drive and it hangs up all the time? Probably the end for me :mrgreen:
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Re: KDE Plasma 5 - what it's all about

Post by austin.texas »

thom_A wrote:Seems Netrunner 1 "Maui" is okay.
The USB live booted without a glitch. Very different from my experience with latest Kubuntu and other Plasma-based distros. It seems well-organized too. But I have to check the installed version and see if I could run my main applications, graphics tablet, appimages, etc. If this is KDE's future, then it's time to start embracing it.
dracut:/#_
I installed Netrunner to test it, and found nothing wrong with it at all. I liked it a lot.
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