32 bit vs 64 bit [SOLVED]

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Nili
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Nili » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:40 pm

32-bit because it use only 30MB while on Idle.

My desktop is an Dual Core from 2007.
Searching more from this dead horse i find too excessive. Therefore as far it stay, i'll use 32-bit. Since it works excellently on my selecective tools/apps i'm happy.

So, 32-bit for me will stay more longer as my chosed architecture.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby BG405 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:52 pm

Apart from my old machines which have 32-bit CPUs, the only reason I've kept 32-bit Mint on my netbooks is that I haven't gotten the printer drivers working on 64-bit yet. Once this is sorted I'll be switching all machines which can run 64-bit over to that OS architecture, when I make the move to Mint 18. The Dell runs 64-bit Cinnamon (17.3) and will at some point be changed over to LM18.x KDE 64-bit.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Phuz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:53 pm

xenopeek wrote:For performance differences between 32 bit and 64 bit you can look at this comparison on Ubunt 16.04 LTS on which Linux Mint 18.x are based: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... -1604-3264. As expected the gains are in programs that do repetitive operations on large quantities of data (creating or transforming multimedia files, encryption, rendering graphics, and so on). Besides the wider data bus (64 bit instead of 32 bit, moving more data per instruction) this is also due to 64 bit being a different processor architecture that has more dedicated registers and instructions heavily optimized for particular tasks.

As for RAM; this isn't Windows :wink: Linux Mint 32 bit can address 64 GB physical RAM in total but is limited to 4 GB address space per program. With today's computers Linux Mint 64 bit has no such limits. It can address 256 TB physical RAM (future processors allowing 4 PB, 16 times as much) and has 256 TB address space per program (future processors allowing 16 EB, 65536 times as much). Such a large address space allows the program to use lots of physical RAM and to use features like virtual memory for mapping files to memory where the operating system transparently loads portions of the file on demand into physical RAM when the program accesses that part of the memory mapped file in virtual memory. The kind of programs that benefit from 64 bit performance are also the kind of programs that can benefit from being able to use more than 4 GB address space.

Aside from that, as others have already pointed out, more and more Linux distros are dropping support for 32 bit or are considering it. That is due to decreasing users on 32 bit which make a case to justify cutting maintainer work in half by dropping 32 bit. According to DistroWatch the following 80 Linux distros only come in 64 bit (noted with their popularity ranking on DistroWatch):

Code: Select all

6   elementary OS
12   Antergos
13   Solus
14   PCLinuxOS
21   KDE neon
33   Black Lab Linux
35   Netrunner
37   KaOS
45   Red Hat Enterprise Linux
46   GeckoLinux
52   Korora Project
57   AryaLinux
58   Sabayon
59   Container Linux
60   RancherOS
62   Maui Linux
64   Ubuntu DesktopPack
69   ChaletOS
70   Qubes OS
75   SteamOS
82   AUSTRUMI
91   GoboLinux
92   Chakra GNU/Linux
93   ExTiX
96   Rockstor
103   SolydXK
104   Linux Kodachi
105   Chapeau
106   NethServer
110   Neptune
112   Parted Magic
116   siduction
133   CAINE
143   Proxmox
145   Linux From Scratch
149   Porteus Kiosk
151   Pisi Linux
152   OpenMediaVault
160   Zentyal Server
164   SELKS
165   Void
168   PelicanHPC GNU Linux
169   Whonix
170   3CX Phone System
171   Funtoo Linux
176   DuZeru
178   CRUX
179   Endless OS
183   Sonar GNU/Linux
188   EasyNAS
191   URIX OS
193   Bio-Linux
194   Linpus Linux
197   KXStudio
201   Leeenux
202   LinHES
217   BlueOnyx
222   Exe GNU/Linux
223   Exherbo
225   PoliArch
227   VortexBox
230   Linux Mangaka
233   TurnKey Linux
236   Network Security Toolkit
241   Fermi Linux
243   MAX: Madrid_Linux
244   Rocks Cluster Distribution
246   StressLinux
256   Baruwa Enterprise Edition
262   Kwort Linux
269   eZeY
270   BitKey
271   Volumio
275   Resulinux
276   Asianux
277   Clear Linux
278   Keysoft
279   Subgraph OS
280   Fatdog64 Linux
284   OviOS Linux

That said there are 33 Linux distros according to DistroWatch that are 32 bit only:

Code: Select all

25   Tails
48   Simplicity Linux
50   KNOPPIX
72   4MLinux
95   Wifislax
100   Elive
119   blackPanther OS
120   SystemRescueCd
126   LinuxConsole
128   PrimTux
137   Berry Linux
138   MakuluLinux
144   ConnochaetOS
147   APODIO
148   Endian Firewall
166   Legacy OS
167   OLPC OS
174   GALPon MiniNo
181   Toutou Linux
187   Trusted End Node Security
210   SymphonyOS
213   BOSS GNU/Linux
218   Finnix
224   IPCop Firewall
226   Sophos UTM
238   Thinstation
245   Securepoint Security Suite
260   Webconverger
261   Hanthana Linux
263   LliureX
267   ToriOS
268   Ulteo Open Virtual Desktop
272   SuliX



Thank you Xenopeek!, and the others in this second part of the thread! Some good data and logic presented here! The VM issue has not reared it's head for me as if I do a VM, it's in the past been another Linux I might be working on. Likely, I will never have the displeasure again of needing to run anything Windows since being out of the industry now for a while.

This has in my mind, turned into a great thread and generated good and sound answers all around. Some like me, simply don't have need yet for 64 bit due to the apps we run. My cpus are all 64 bit so I can up the ram if/when needed.

In closure, many thanks to all that put their 2 cents in on this one!!!

Phuz

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Phuz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:55 pm

BG405 wrote:Apart from my old machines which have 32-bit CPUs, the only reason I've kept 32-bit Mint on my netbooks is that I haven't gotten the printer drivers working on 64-bit yet. Once this is sorted I'll be switching all machines which can run 64-bit over to that OS architecture, when I make the move to Mint 18. The Dell runs 64-bit Cinnamon (17.3) and will at some point be changed over to LM18.x KDE 64-bit.


BG, drivers as you just mentioned are another good reason (that I'd forgotten about) that has kept me in 32 bit. I have tried several 64 bit releases in the past and found them lacking some support function that I needed... usually printers. Great point!

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby linux-dummie » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:37 pm

I'm using only 32-bit Linux on an Athlon64 dual-core for close to 7 years now. I never felt the need to try 64-bit for anything, really, and I'm not a gamer. I value stability and predictability above all else in regards to computering. Linux 32-bit gives me what I need, efficiently, effectively, and completely. On another note, I also use the MX distro. In a recent "What's New" video about the latest MX-16 by runwiththedolphin (a.k.a. dolphin_oracle), he stated "our downloads [of the distro] seem to favor 32-bit....particularly in Europe." He also added, "We're happy to include 32-bit for as long as we can..." I'm glad Mint still offers 32-bit, even in their latest release. There's a good reason for that, you know.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby BEeK » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:59 pm

linux-dummie wrote:I never felt the need to try 64-bit for anything, really, and I'm not a gamer.

I believe common users, as you and me won't feel the need for a 64-bit OS... At least not before applications evolve up to a point to favor greatly 64-bit or make them unusable in a 32-bit environment, as it may have happened with the 16->32-bit transition.

But in the high end server world, 64-bit is a necessity for long time already. And I believe it is one of the reasons it was developed.

Are you losing something if you're running 32-bit instead of 64? I believe not, if the applications you need is there for 32-bit... Other than that, I see no disadvantages.

But that is mostly speculation from my part, if anyone have concrete information, please feel free to correct me.

Thank you!

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Pjotr » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:14 pm

BEeK wrote:Are you losing something if you're running 32-bit instead of 64? I believe not, if the applications you need is there for 32-bit... Other than that, I see no disadvantages.

Correct. However: the 32-bit software range is shrinking, and will continue to do so. Probably with increasing speed.

So what's fine for you today, might not be so tomorrow. For me, the discontinuation of 32-bit Google Chrome was the final impetus towards installing 64-bit on all of my machines that can handle it.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Cosmo. » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:52 pm

If you have a 32 bit system and if you do not software, which is not provided in the official repositories, you can surely continue to use it without worrying about it. All 32 bit programs in the official repos will stay there, as long as the version of the OS is supported. But if you need also the one or other software from different sources, it might happen, that you wake up the other day and this software has no longer 32 bit support.

If you are thinking about a new system it seems pointless to start new with 32 bit, except the hardware does not support 64 bit.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Divine_Serpent » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:05 am

All my hardware has been upgraded to 64 bit CPUs and the only time I use 32 bit software is on 32 bit operating system in various virtual machines. I do not intentionally try to use 64 bit software, but that just seems to be the way its worked out across my computational needs.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby xenopeek » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:48 am

Tails is the most popular 32 bit only distro on DistroWatch. They are moving to 64 bit only: https://tails.boum.org/news/Tails_3.0_w ... l#index3h1. See especially under the heading "Why this change?" some good arguments as to why 32 bit software is declining.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby thom_A » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:09 pm

I started a similar thread last year, if you're interested.

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=225843

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Hoser Rob » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Phuz wrote:...So again, I ask the question which seems to have escaped many, are there any real world advantages anyone has, for 64 bit over 32 bit? "It's going away" is not really an answer...


I think it's a perfectly good answer. I had 32 bit Mint on my netbook but when Google announced they were going to drop 32 bit support I did a reinstall of Mint 64 bit. The writing was definitely on the wall.

Also I don't think the existence of 32 bit only distros is going to make any difference if the software base is going to disappear.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby English Invader » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:10 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Phuz wrote:...So again, I ask the question which seems to have escaped many, are there any real world advantages anyone has, for 64 bit over 32 bit? "It's going away" is not really an answer...


I think it's a perfectly good answer. I had 32 bit Mint on my netbook but when Google announced they were going to drop 32 bit support I did a reinstall of Mint 64 bit. The writing was definitely on the wall.

Also I don't think the existence of 32 bit only distros is going to make any difference if the software base is going to disappear.


I can see where the OP is coming from. The question was whether there were any genuine technical reasons why 64-Bit is better or if it was just the man forcing us to upgrade our hardware.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby xenopeek » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:09 am

English Invader wrote:The question was whether there were any genuine technical reasons why 64-Bit is better or if it was just the man forcing us to upgrade our hardware.

And it's been answered:
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby lmintnewb2 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:27 am

Not in anyway meant as a debate but have to +1 Xenopeek. The writing is on the wall. Am still a sys resource miser from hades, used to get rid of conky, cause considered it bloat and nothing I couldn't get from term fast enough.

If he (Xenopeek) hadn't posted that list of distros going 64bit only, would've taken me awhile(longer) to catch onto that but grateful he did.

Been a long time the winds been blowing and consider it just the way it is. Will surely be distros which fight a rear guard action for outmoded hardware but less n less.

Other than that switch to 64bit or be left behind. Wbtw: don't consider conky bloat anymore. :)

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby sphyrth » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:58 pm

Using candles (32-bit) is still viable. But people are moving on and are selling lamps (64-bit) now.

A few years ago, many are can't just swtich to 64-bit because a software compatibility. Nowadays, 32-bitis struggling because pf software compatibility. This is not some simple trend that will go away. It's just moving on.

I'm staying with my 32-bit system only because I have yet to afford a new machine. As fast as I can, I will upgrade and not wait for the last minute when all of my favorite software to abandon 32-bit support.
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Pjotr » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:20 pm

lmintnewb2 wrote:Haven't ever tried wine.

Note that Wine makes your Linux partially vulnerable for Windows malware:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/wine

Have thought about putting win8 vm in gnu/Nix host.

That's a better solution, because the security of your Linux won't be degraded. :)
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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby The Old Timer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:14 pm

Pjotr wrote:the discontinuation of 32-bit Google Chrome was the final impetus towards installing 64-bit on all of my machines that can handle it.

I'm finding most of my 10 year old computers will run 64 bit Linux distros and the ones that don't I use antiX-16.1 Berta Cáceres.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby English Invader » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:02 pm

Pjotr wrote:
lmintnewb2 wrote:Haven't ever tried wine.

Note that Wine makes your Linux partially vulnerable for Windows malware:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/wine

Have thought about putting win8 vm in gnu/Nix host.

That's a better solution, because the security of your Linux won't be degraded. :)


Not wishing to derail this thread too much, but I would say that any potential virus problems in Wine are dependant on the Windows programs you choose to run. As long as you only use programs from reputable sites and retailers and don't click on any dodgy links or executables (basically the same precautions you should take when using Windows) you should be fine.

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Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Postby Tomgin5 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:24 pm

This is almost like an old discussion I was having with designers and developers, including Billy the Kid (Gates) before Microsoft was Microsoft. The discussion of 8 bit versus 16 bit or 24 bit. Kinda dates me doesn't it! Unless you are not going to do anything more advanced than you are doing with 32, stick with it, but a capacitor may short (eventually) and everything will be a different OS. 128bit anyone!


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