What other distros have you played with recently?

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austin.texas
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by austin.texas »

MintBean wrote:Ended up nuking the partition to stop myself wasting any more time with it. It was a fun experiment while it lasted...
That is usually the way my distro-hopping ends.
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by samriggs »

MintBean wrote: @samriggs: What's the advantage of pure Arch over Antergos? My understanding was that I pretty much end up with Arch and a small extra repo after installing it.
I guess there is no real advantage , Antergos has a GUI installer Arch doesn't, that's why folks gravitate to that and Manjaro.
I just like the pure Arch (with no extra repo) and I like doing everything through the terminal when using it with no software manager, just adding what I want and nothing else.
I only use it for speed and fun and experimenting

One thing you might notice with cinnamon Antergos is the way the panel lays out (I think thats what it was) or the applets or something, they did it their own way the last time I took it for a test run, one way to fix that is to open the add applets windows and restore to default, it makes it like mints that way, I think thats the only issue I had with it when I took it for a run, but I see you nuked it anyhow :lol:

I would use Arch full time it wasn't for my programs I need and the big fear of breakage on updates, I'm slowly going to switch most if not almost all my programs over to appimages when they all come out so they can be stand alones and not worry so much of breakages in that department anymore, only hardware breakages will be the real issue then with kernel updates etc... but at least my programs will work if all the rest works good.

For anyone who wants to warn me about security issues with appimages I am aware of them, the programs I use will only be from trusted sources and I can sandbox them.
I just like the fact I can shove everything in the home folder and back it up easily and when doing a reinstall I can just shove them back into the home folder and I am up and running with no installs or set ups.
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lucap »

@MintBean

Before you give up distro-hopping completely give Porteus Cinnamon 64 a quick go so you can see just how ridiculously fast and small Cinnamon desktop can be without Ubuntu base or SystemD.......

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by MintBean »

Lucap wrote:@MintBean

Before you give up distro-hopping completely give Porteus Cinnamon 64 a quick go so you can see just how ridiculously fast and small Cinnamon desktop can be without Ubuntu base or SystemD.......
Not in the mood at the moment but moods change and when it does I'll take that advice and give Porteus a look. Thanks for the advice.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lucap »

LOL , your experimenting has really come to a sudden abrupt end. :D

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by MintBean »

Lucap wrote:LOL , your experimenting has really come to a sudden abrupt end. :D
Let's just say real life got a lot more busy recently. :)

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lucap »

I've now given up with other Distro's myself and sticking too Mint. :)

As much as i dislike Ubuntu base for it's sluggishness it seems to be the best compromise for ease of use and versatility of fairly current packages.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by altair4 »

Austin.texas mentioned Peppermint7 in another post.

Perhaps because I'm getting old and feeble minded I always thought peppermint was a PCLinuxOS derivative so I never tried it.

I am very impressed by this distro. It's based on Ubuntu 16.04 but it seems to have either fixed, worked around, or reconfigured it somehow so that many of the inherent bugs in 16.04 have been dealt with.

Not all of the bugs of course. I have a test box that I use to experiment with new distros and Peppermint like everything else derived from Ubuntu 16.04 prevents me from shutting down the box.
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by DeMus »

Manjaro. Why? It is fast:

Code: Select all

systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 1.727s (kernel) + 1.389s (userspace) = 3.116s

Code: Select all

systemd-analyze blame
           403ms org.cups.cupsd.service
           327ms plymouth-start.service
           307ms dev-sda1.device
           246ms tlp.service
           217ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-646d28e0\x2dfa3a\x2d4ad4\x2d8890\x2dba1940ff448c.service
           189ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-a41f5474\x2d7f26\x2d4807\x2d87d3\x2d279976d1a844.service
           186ms ModemManager.service
           186ms systemd-journald.service
           179ms upower.service
           179ms user@1000.service
           124ms Music.mount
           121ms Data.mount
           112ms systemd-modules-load.service
           109ms autofs.service
            81ms polkit.service
            80ms udisks2.service
            75ms systemd-udevd.service
            73ms NetworkManager.service
            54ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
            49ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
            45ms plymouth-quit-wait.service
            44ms plymouth-quit.service
            37ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
            33ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
            26ms plymouth-read-write.service
            23ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6a1608a1\x2df72a\x2d4b92\x2db570\x2df168646cb70b.service
            18ms avahi-daemon.service
            14ms systemd-binfmt.service
            14ms colord.service
            13ms systemd-journal-flush.service
            13ms systemd-logind.service
             9ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-49bd6079\x2d5984\x2d427d\x2d9c68\x2d39cc344b035f.swap
             9ms alsa-restore.service
             8ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
             8ms ntpd.service
             8ms systemd-remount-fs.service
             7ms systemd-sysctl.service
             7ms sys-kernel-config.mount                                                                            
             6ms tmp.mount                                                                                          
             6ms home.mount                                                                                         
             5ms systemd-update-utmp.service                                                                        
             4ms kmod-static-nodes.service                                                                          
             4ms rtkit-daemon.service                                                                               
             4ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount                                                                      
             4ms systemd-random-seed.service                                                                        
             4ms dev-hugepages.mount                                                                                
             4ms systemd-user-sessions.service                                                                      
             3ms dev-mqueue.mount                                                                                   
             2ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
Now I can hear you say: well, that's a nice fast boot but I can assure you it is not only the boot which is lightning fast. Working with the system is a joy. Yes, it takes some more work than setting up Mint or another Debian (Ubuntu) based system but that's fun.
I started disliking Ubuntu some years ago and stepped away from it, used SolydXK (KDE version of course, cause there is just one DE and that is KDE) but although SolydK is a great distro (based on Debian stable, or testing if you like that) but it just works, there is nothing to do, it is getting boring very fast. Using Manjaro since November last year I learned a lot and I am loving it. Manjaro's repos include a lot of software and those few packages which they don't have are available in the AUR (Arch User Repository). I just use Google-Chrome, Spotify and Luckybackup from that, all other programs come from Manjaro.
Very happy I discovered Manjaro and took the plunge.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by LIGNUX »

New to GNU/Linux and not knowing what to use, tried many of them: Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux, Debian, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Fedora,
ReactOS, Mint, MintDE, Tails, KNOPPIX, Tiny Core, tried FreeBSD but failed :D Not yet Qubes, Whonix.

So far, everything works fine with Mint, no regret to have left M$ (Micro or rather Macro$tealer)

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lucap »

If it wasn't for Call of Duty i would leave windows as well.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lemongrass38 »

Okay, so now I'm more than 2 weeks into my Debian main OS test month. So far it's good. I will share my experiences about 2 weeks form now. I guess the result will be something like "use what fits you". There are pros and cons for Debian and Mint too.

Question to those who used Arch: do you think it is worth a try for a person that doesn't like fixing things twice?

For example, I love TeX because if I do something, then it is done and no matter what I do with the rest of the document, it remains done. There's no need to do it again. On Debian-based systems, if I set something, I usually don't have to fix that later. However, Fred said that an update broke his wireless.

How often is this happening? How much time does Arch need spent on "fixing"? :)
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Fred Barclay »

Lemongrass38 wrote: However, Fred said that an update broke his wireless.

How often is this happening? How much time does Arch need spent on "fixing"? :)
To be fair, the current 4.9 kernel in Debian jessie-backports breaks my wireless too. :x And it's actually easier to switch to the linux-lts kernel in Arch (which still supported my wireless card) than to permanently return to the 3.16 kernel in Debian/LMDE.

Other than that, I don't remember any time spent "fixing" and I used Arch straight for about a month. Honestly the installation is the hardest part.
Just make regular backups and read the wiki! That last bit can't be overstated! I'm guilty of thinking that "I know how to handle this" and not reading the wiki - it always comes back to haunt me sooner or later.
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lemongrass38 »

Thanks for the advice, Fred. :)
I've installed Arch. I use the linux-lts kernel (I had a sound issue).

As for my promised Debian vs Linux Mint comparison: I don't think I'll wait for 4 days with that. I've completely switched to Arch (Linux Mint is not on my hdd now, so I'm not sure if I'm at the right place typing on this forum :) ). Debian was my main distro for about 3 months. So it's not a full month's experience to write my comparison on its base. It's just 3 weeks. Sorry for anyone who's bothered by this. I'm sorry. But I guess there's not many of such people. So here we go:

Disclaimer: I just can't make this independent from the different desktop environments. So I rather do a Linux Mint Cinnamon vs Debian Xfce comparison. Both the newest ver. (18.1 and 8.7.1).

Stability: I haven't found any errors in the core system in Debian, nor in Xfce. Although I have found a few bugs in Xfce and Cinnamon too, so it's a tie for DE-s. Namely: I found that Cinnamon can't handle more than 20 objects on the panel (it was unusable afterwards) and : when I opened a symlinked folder in Xfce's Thunar (that was pointing to a different partition) and the folder contained *.mp3 or *.mp4 videos Xfce logged me out (but didn't turn off the machine or such). It was fixed after disabling thumbnails in Thunar.
So in short: both are really stable.
Packaging: Linux Mint has newer packages in general. Like I could easily install keepassx 2.0.3 in Mint, but I could install only 2.0.2 in Debian from the backports. Keepassx is important to me. Okay, I could install it from a *.deb file. :) Debian got security updates really fast and has a security mailing list (and other mailing lists too). All of these mailing lists are Gpg-signed. So Debian's packaging is quite secure. When a recent kernel bug was found, I got my update in about 12 hours after reading the news. I didn't try it in Mint.
Support: Mint is more supported by 3rd party services like Dropbox and Megasync. Since Mint is based on Ubuntu, disabling autostart of these cloud services was possible in Mint. Not in Debian, which is not based on Ubuntu, so this wasn't possible. Although there's almost always a *.deb file from the 3rd party services. However I found that Debian's self-support is really good. There are mailing lists and so on, the Debian Project takes care of a lot of packages.
Free software: Debian is winner here. I had only my iwlwifi driver that wasn't free software besides Dropbox, Spotify and my VM. And these were firejailed, and later Dropbox was uninstalled because I couldn't set it to launch in sandbox or not start automatically.
Techiness: Mint is much easier to set up and easier to use. For example I had to search for a while about how to add my user to the sudo group to be able to sudo in Debian. 2 passwords are to be kept in mind in Debian (su+user), 1 in Mint (user). As I think, Debian's installer didn't offer anything like "easy installation" (wipe everything and install Debian), Mint's did. This is not a deal for me, as I always choose manual partitioning.
Forums:There aren't really any beginners on the Debian Forums. Debian was a bit like "deep water" at first, but it was good for me. Debian has a good Wiki, but that's not meant for newcomers. It mainly consits of shell commands, not things like click here and there and tick that. People on the Debian Forums are just as nice as here, but they require the user to try to solve the problem and search first, more like in Mint.
Boot time: Debian was a bit faster. Maybe because of Xfce. In general, the installation took less space in Debian Xfce.

Overall: I would recommend any newcomers to use Mint, but Debian is really good too. Experienced users should have no problem with it. For server, definitely Debian.

Extra question that arose among my thoughts: what will the Debian Project do when they run out of Toy Story characters? :) I thought of a few options:
a) produce a new Toy Story movie with lots of new characters
b) reuse characters (unlikely)
c) use a new cartoon :D

Right now my main OS is Arch Xfce, I just wanted to have a rolling release distribution with the newest package versions.
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lucap »

Does Arch need much locking down after install such as open ports , netbios or SSH and such?

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by rc_racer »

I am relatively still new to Linux but I have looked at Ubuntu, Kubuntu KDE, Open Suse, Zorin, Ubuntu Mate and Mint over that last year. I like the last two the best. I have had Ubuntu mate on my Lap top for almost a year and I have the latest version or the one before that :? I like it but I like the Linux mint 18 (Sarah) that I have on my desktop even better. It was hard to decide which one I liked better there for a little while. Icon and interface graphics are better looking in Ubuntu Mate, Looks great and is stable, but the interface and functionality of Mint works better for what I like to do, is stable, and the graphics and Icons look good although not as good. Over all I think Linux mint is better.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Fred Barclay »

DeMus wrote:Manjaro. Why? It is fast:
...
Very happy I discovered Manjaro and took the plunge.
Yep, Manjaro is a super-nice distro. :)

Personal opinion question here, DeMus. I've used Manjaro and Arch several times over the past years, but I've always shied away from sticking with 'em long-term for a few nagging security doubts.
One thing I really like about Debian (and LMDE) is that there are so many eyes on the Debian code before it makes it to Stable. There are the Debian security and development teams, the bughunters, the ordinary users who examine code for fun or because they're trying to track down a bug... you get the idea. I feel pretty safe trusting the Debian code base for my personal use. It does get a bit boring, as you say, but right now I'm short on time and boring is good!

Manjaro and Arch, on the other hand (if I understand it correctly) trust the upstream developers much more. That means that bugs, accidental security holes, and whatnot will get pushed as updates, right? Now I'm assuming that none of the upstream devs are malicious - ie all mistakes are honest mistakes, not purposeful vulnerabilities. But still, a security vulnerability is a vulnerability regardless of why it exists. My concern is that by running a rolling distro like Arch or Manjaro, I'm making myself more open to attack through these (short-lived, hopefully) vulnerabilities.

Are these concerns valid in your opinion?
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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by DeMus »

Fred Barclay wrote: Yep, Manjaro is a super-nice distro. :)
Hello Fred, I am using Manjaro for about 6 months now and I never had the impression it has more vulnerabilities than other distro's. You could be right, though, the idea behind Manjaro, and certainly Arch, is a rolling distro with regular updates. It's not the same kind of system Debian uses, where and I agree completely what you wrote, many people look over the software for a very long time before it gets released.
Manjaro is to that respect better than Arch cause when Arch releases an update the Manjaro devs take a look at it first before they release it. This normally is a few days, in case of a security risk it is faster.

You use LMDE? You must be when you write what you wrote cause using regular Mint is different than a Debian based OS. I have a feeling, and that drove me away from Mint, is that where Debian produces this rock solid distro, Ubuntu takes it and kinda ruins it, adds it with all sorts of ...ware which I don't want, and then Mint takes that result and tries to correct things again. I wonder why Mint is not just concentrating on LMDE, or at least concentrating on it more. Just base the system on Debian stable and forget the Ubuntu stuff. To my opinion that would be much better. A reason for me to start using SolydXK after having used Mint. This distro is, like LMDE, Debian based but uses the XFCE and KDE desktops. It is really rock solyd, so solyd that it got boring after a while. There is absolutely nothing to do in respect to tinkering. So I looked further and found Manajro.
When you have used Manjaro yourself, you know it is fast, it is so much faster than the other distros I have used before. It is great. Now with KDE 5.9.3 things have matured and I have gotten myself a great distro from which I learn every day. Forum is great and helpful. For me the perfect distro. Sorry to have to write that here on the Mint forum.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by samriggs »

I decided to take Manjaro for a spin, as I always loved arch, it is a nice distro I have to say.
I think Fred is right though about security issues, although it is more stable then pure arch because the updates are a bit slower then pure arch, I take it they get tested more before being released for breakages.
Bear in mind it does have newer software which has not stood the test of time fully, for this reason Fred is probably right.

Now comes the other side, if you can handle older software with more stableness and security debian is probably the way to go, for me it drives me nuts at times when I have to update things manually because some software uses a newer version of qt or something else or I have to go hunting for a newer version of a software and snag the deb file then to find out other things are too outdated to install it because of older dependencies.
One reason I started using appimages (plus they are easier to back up and reinstall if need be) but they also have a security issue if created by a bad dude :twisted:

I been trying to get back to a rolling release because I hate reinstalls, I loved arch because it had newer toys but caused to many breakages, debian based is way to outdated for my needs unless I want to live in testing and experimental, manjaro seems to be the inbetween so far to fill my needs for a rolling release, we'll see, I am testing it for a month to see how it goes, so far so good and I downgraded to xfce for speeds sake.

So if your more worried about security and don't mind older but more stable software debian is a good fit in which case I would go for LMDE or solydxk (kind of miss the folks over there I should pop in and say howdy) debs are everywhere also, if you want speed and more updated software but less security then debian, then manjaro is nice fit for rolling releases.
If you want everything new all the time and like to play around finding fixes when things go pop, arch is fun (although I know some folks that have used it for years with no issues, but they know what their doing)

If you don't want a rolling release then mint ubuntu base is a fine piece of work and works nicely out of the box so their is less fussing around with everyhting.

I love mint and always have and the folks here, so even if this works out with manjaro, I still will promote mint (I got famaily on it who needs security and stableness with no fussing around, theirs are quick to install though so I don't mind it, mine takes at least two days to get everyhting the way i want it)

So Fred I think you right man :D

PS: If this does work out I'll still be making more mdm's in my spare time, I don't need mdm to make them I made a template so it's just a matter of dropping in the html5 stuff, plus I have someone who can test them.

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Re: What other distros have you played with recently?

Post by Lemongrass38 »

Fred Barclay wrote:Manjaro and Arch, on the other hand (if I understand it correctly) trust the upstream developers much more.
Fred, could you please tell me more about this?

Do you have a source (some inner regulation or writing) that proves this? Also, do you know about such a thing for Debian?

You have made me really think twice about using Arch as my main distro. I mean it's good, but "goodness" is not the only thing I'm looking for.

As I know, there are 38 Arch developers
https://www.archlinux.org/people/developers/

And a lot of Debian Project Members:
https://www.debian.org/intro/organization

According to Wikipedia, there were 1023 of them in 2016.

You have a point, Fred....
It's certainly much easier to hide something from 37*2=74 eyes than from 1022*2=2044 eyes. :roll:
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