Ryzen Time! Suggestions for the new build

[coffee412]

Hello all,

It is finally time to build my new Ryzen box. My ageing Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor × 6 that I have been using for years will be re-purposed to become my file server/ firewall/ router. It will replace a dual core that will become my cloning box with an external 4 bay eSATA rig. However, I am on the fence on a few parts so I am looking for ideas. Let me lay out how I will be using this new box and what I am basically looking for feature wise. What do you recommend and /or what are you using that you like.

I will be getting the Ryzen x1800 with 16 gigs of ram. What I will be using this box for is of course running Mint, I run Virtualbox with a windows guest. Currently I run it on a software raid1 for some protection. I have two 2tb drives (seagate) that have been doing very well. I tend not to play games much the one game I do play is Warzone2100. Otherwise I want to use this box for a workstation. I also like the idea of hotswap drives (sata) in a drive bay that is easily accessible. I do not want to have to pull the cover on the case every time I swap a drive or just add and remove.

I looked at a possible 3 or 4U case but they are pretty long (20" or more) and not sure I have the room for it. Also, I would prefer it to be somewhat quiet. So, I am looking at tower cases and adding something like a 5 bay hot swap bay to the case. Im really not into flashy lights and such on the case and just prefer decent quality instead.

So, I have the processor and memory figured out. Motherboard is not really a problem. The monitor that I got this last Christmas is a LG 32 inch HD monitor. So, I am all set there.

So, Suggestions on :

Case - like the idea of the hotswap bays. No flashy lights and such like that. More of a business type case. conservative but decent quality. Front access to drives - Like that idea.

Video card - Would like faster graphics. I have a GTX650 now and want snappier performance.

Drives - Im thinking RAID1 for the filesystem and then a RAID5 for data. SATA drives. Looked at LSI hardware raid cards. Pricey. I could just software raid it and go direct from the motherboard. Im just thinking of the performance boost an actual raid card would give. Not sure.

I have a really decent budget on this. I have sold off some AMD stock. So, As long as it doesnt get too out of hand I am open here.

So, What do you use? What do you like? Be interesting to hear everyones ideas.

coffee

[xenopeek]

You'll benefit more from faster storage than a faster processor. I'd recommend you look at SSD options in your budget. I'd recommend Samsung 850 EVO (or PRO if you're okay with paying a premium for a longer warranty; but mind that the EVO is faster). You can go the more expensive route of a M.2 NVMe SSD but you have to consider your system's workload whether that is worth the investment. Those SSDs don't reach full potential unless you have high queue depths and lots of sequential (non-random) reads and writes. For most home users they'll max out at single digit queue depths and most reads and writes will be 4k random and the performance difference will be negligible as compared to what you'll pay extra.

As for the Ryzen 7 1800x, I'd give some thought to the 1700x or even the 1700. It's $ 100 or $ 180 cheaper respectively and in the benchmarks I've seen so far the performance difference isn't that big (at least between 1800x and 1700x). You'll benefit more from SSD than a < 10% boost in multi-threaded performance. Phoronix has published some 1800x benchmarks and it certainly is a good choice as compared to Intel for your intended use. Over the next few days I expect Phoronix will also publish benchmarks on the 1700 and some more benchmarks and thoughts on both.

For graphics cards, if you don't play games, it just needs to meet your needs for number of monitors you want to be able to use and with what type of connectors. Nvidia have the better drivers right now, being closer to on-par with Windows. But AMD have the better open source driver. With a newer AMD graphics card you'll want to use the amdgpu open source driver on Linux Mint 18.x.

Circling back to hardware RAID, I find that a hard sell. Personally I'd rather invest the money in a SSD and more RAM (I run multiple virtual machines at the same time and find 16 GB RAM limiting) and setting up a good backup schedule. RAID is fine and dandy but doesn't do much when the computer is damaged in fire or water hazard or gets stolen. Research your hardware RAID to make sure it works with Linux.

[coffee412]

You'll benefit more from faster storage than a faster processor. I'd recommend you look at SSD options in your budget. I'd recommend Samsung 850 EVO (or PRO if you're okay with paying a premium for a longer warranty; but mind that the EVO is faster). You can go the more expensive route of a M.2 NVMe SSD but you have to consider your system's workload whether that is worth the investment. Those SSDs don't reach full potential unless you have high queue depths and lots of sequential (non-random) reads and writes. For most home users they'll max out at single digit queue depths and most reads and writes will be 4k random and the performance difference will be negligible as compared to what you'll pay extra.

As for the Ryzen 7 1800x, I'd give some thought to the 1700x or even the 1700. It's $ 100 or $ 180 cheaper respectively and in the benchmarks I've seen so far the performance difference isn't that big (at least between 1800x and 1700x). You'll benefit more from SSD than a < 10% boost in multi-threaded performance. Phoronix has published some 1800x benchmarks and it certainly is a good choice as compared to Intel for your intended use. Over the next few days I expect Phoronix will also publish benchmarks on the 1700 and some more benchmarks and thoughts on both.

For graphics cards, if you don't play games, it just needs to meet your needs for number of monitors you want to be able to use and with what type of connectors. Nvidia have the better drivers right now, being closer to on-par with Windows. But AMD have the better open source driver. With a newer AMD graphics card you'll want to use the amdgpu open source driver on Linux Mint 18.x.

Circling back to hardware RAID, I find that a hard sell. Personally I'd rather invest the money in a SSD and more RAM (I run multiple virtual machines at the same time and find 16 GB RAM limiting) and setting up a good backup schedule. RAID is fine and dandy but doesn't do much when the computer is damaged in fire or water hazard or gets stolen. Research your hardware RAID to make sure it works with Linux.

SSD options - I would go that route but to get the amount of storage I have now it would be very expensive. I have just 2 tb but just one single 2tb drive is like 600.00 or more. I guess that starts to show the limit of my budget I will probably go SATA just for the cost difference.

Ryzen option - Good thought there.

Graphics card - So your saying go AMD right? I use the computer for my one man business and run windows in a VM. If the AMD is better supported than Nvidia then I will go AMD. First thought is the rx480 but I really do not like multiple fans. From my experience these darn fans fail and then the card overheats and dies - lol. But its hard to find a really nice card without fans now adays.

RAID - I think I will just go software raid then. Doing the hardware raid is pretty pricy.

Memory - How much memory are you running with? How many VMs do you have running at a time? - You peeked my curiosity there

Thanks for your reply and great comments!

coffee

[xenopeek]

If you are gaming I'd go with Nvidia as it clearly has the better performance on Linux and some games don't even support AMD. If you're not gaming then it is a moot point and AMD can be considered as well as it has the better open source driver. Go with whichever you like best.

Sorry to hark on about it, but you might consider using a smaller/cheaper SSD for just for a portion of your storage. Like put your operating system on it and your most used files and put the rest of the hard disks. The single best investment I did performance wise was get a SSD.

As for memory I currently have 16 GB but for my next build will go with 32 GB. I have a lot of virtual machines and often run half a dozen at the same time. For example while doing things for Linux Mint.

[coffee412]

If you are gaming I'd go with Nvidia as it clearly has the better performance on Linux and some games don't even support AMD. If you're not gaming then it is a moot point and AMD can be considered as well as it has the better open source driver. Go with whichever you like best.

Sorry to hark on about it, but you might consider using a smaller/cheaper SSD for just for a portion of your storage. Like put your operating system on it and your most used files and put the rest of the hard disks. The single best investment I did performance wise was get a SSD.

As for memory I currently have 16 GB but for my next build will go with 32 GB. I have a lot of virtual machines and often run half a dozen at the same time. For example while doing things for Linux Mint.

Ok, I will look into SSD for the operating system and then throw my /home on mechanical disks.

32 gigs eh? 6 or more VMs at a time???? WOW. I am very impressed. Should I not just call you "Lord Vim" ? (get it VM = Vim) lol...

Ive never had this much money to create a fantastic system. So, Iam trying pretty hard to spend it all wisely. However, 32 gigs is enchanting! lol...

Thank you xenopeek,

coffee

[xenopeek]

If you just need one or two or three VMs, 16 GB is a sensible amount of memory and you can give every system at least 4 GB working memory. Taking 32 GB would cost about € 120 more.

[coffee412]

If you just need one or two or three VMs, 16 GB is a sensible amount of memory and you can give every system at least 4 GB working memory. Taking 32 GB would cost about € 120 more.

So far I have done ok with 8 gigs running Mint/windows. I run windows pretty much for quickbooks and testing software. After some thought, I think 16 gigs will be more than enough for anything I want to do. Spending the extra on 32 would be a waste of money. Besides, If I need to I can always add more I guess.

Ok, I am going for the x1800. I will also go with the RX480 video card. Probably the 4gig model. I just do not see needing 8gigs for linux. If I was running a windows host I would probably go 8 gig. There was a post on Amazon or Newegg, I cant remember, That they said they were running a GTX650 and the RX480 was a drastic improvement. I am also running a 650.

Hummm lets see. Filesystem on SSDs RAID1 . Then mechanical drives for /home directories. Software raid.

Of course, I will be moving up to 18.1 . Thats a given. Right now I am at 17.3 .

Looking at this case:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6811165098

I guess Iam looking to build a Franken-Ryzen lol....

I like the 4 (prefer 5, Still looking) hot swap bays in the front. I know its a rack mount and be a bit more difficult to put somewhere but Ill work that out.

Hey, Thanks for your input

coffee

[xenopeek]

For the motherboard consider if it has the ALC1220 audio chip you'll need Linux kernel 4.11 to get sound out of it. Or you have to manually patch your 4.10 kernel https://www.spinics.net/lists/alsa-devel/msg58697.html. As noted on Phoronix on early test he did, sensors on the motherboard were not yet supported on 4.10 kernel. Likely that will take time to mature and you'll have to use other means to measure temperatures and fan speeds and such (like reboot and look in the BIOS). What I mean is you will want to keep popping in the newest kernel you can get to improve Linux support for your system. Bleeding edge hardware needs bleeding edge kernel...

[coffee412]

For the motherboard consider if it has the ALC1220 audio chip you'll need Linux kernel 4.11 to get sound out of it. Or you have to manually patch your 4.10 kernel https://www.spinics.net/lists/alsa-devel/msg58697.html. As noted on Phoronix on early test he did, sensors on the motherboard were not yet supported on 4.10 kernel. Likely that will take time to mature and you'll have to use other means to measure temperatures and fan speeds and such (like reboot and look in the BIOS). What I mean is you will want to keep popping in the newest kernel you can get to improve Linux support for your system. Bleeding edge hardware needs bleeding edge kernel...

Good thought. I did see that the sound card was not supported. That would not be an issue as I have a pcie sound card for my current rig that I would swap over. Now the sensors is another story.

Thanks!

coffee

[sikejsudjek]

Definitely recommend ssd for the OS. 128gb ssd is pretty inexpensive. Massive performance boost. I've got a 64gb ssd for mint and a 128gb ssd for windows 10. That way windows 10 can be stopped from messing up mint Data storage rarely needs very fast drives, so video, pictures and some games go on the mechanical drives.

[xenopeek]

Phoronix posted benchmarks comparing the 1800X with the 1700. Difference is about 10-15% depending on what test is done. See https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 1700&num=3. That's $ 170 more for the 1800X; a 50% premium for a 10-15% performance boost. On top of that the 1700 comes with a CPU cooler while for the 1800X you have to purchase it separately. I personally might consider to put that money towards SSD storage instead. Or at least seriously consider how much CPU performance I need

[coffee412]

Phoronix posted benchmarks comparing the 1800X with the 1700. Difference is about 10-15% depending on what test is done. See https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 1700&num=3. That's $ 170 more for the 1800X; a 50% premium for a 10-15% performance boost. On top of that the 1700 comes with a CPU cooler while for the 1800X you have to purchase it separately. I personally might consider to put that money towards SSD storage instead. Or at least seriously consider how much CPU performance I need

Totally agree here. However, Do I really need some big water cooler? I do have one in my current 1090T box. Almost have too -lol. But since power consumption problems are done with it should live happily with air cooling - that would be an under 50.00 extra investment. Like I said, I really am not such a game player. I prefer to dig around filesystems and such. I do edit and make some videos but not on a daily basis. I will mostly use this new box for what I do now - surf web, repair some windows drives for work and research. Geez, If I didnt play warzone2100 I would think Iam an Old Boring Geek!

I have been thinking on the subject of the sensors and sound chip drivers not being ready for linux. Since AMD will be releasing server chips this 2nd quarter or so, I bet we have the drivers then. I base this on the idea that there are a lot of Linux servers out there already and this will be needed. I would not be surprised if AMD is able to release the driver codes in some way hopefully.

You know, I have really missed the fun of building a new box with something new and better - like the good old days when I got my first 486 build. I tend to feel that excitement again.

coffee

[Citizen229]

Air cooling for ATX or Tower the evo 212 or wraith cooler( usually for confined spaces here) have been the best in the AM3+ line. I run a EVO 212 with 2x120mm fans in a push/pull set up. My Define R5 case has removable vent panels on the top, so it is pushing right out the top of the case. these 2 coolers did excellent jobs on 125W TDP they will be more than excellent for 65W and 95W TDP

[Citizen229]

Did you order anything yet? This launch seems to be a fail, thanks to the mobo manufacturers. Extra horrible bios at launch as well as limited supply. In time this will not be the case. These chips are benchmarking 5% to 8% below intel counterpart. Lets think about that for a second. 5-8% versus chips that have had firmware updates and bios updates for 2.5-5 years. Not to mention ram clock speeds being unchangeable on most of the current boards. And all at 1/3 the price (1700 version).

I am still waiting for the APU line to hit. The tasks I do, do not require 8 cores. Games like fewer cores and more clock and anything new can web browse. Unless AMD does do eventually do a straight quad core cpu. If anyone else is interested in APU's, BE WARNED. AMD will first be revamping the bulldozer chip. These will feature stupidly low TDP, but more or less the same clock and gpu specs. Then after that they will be doing the new line of APU's.

[xenopeek]

Q2 will see the first two Ryzen 5 CPUs. The hexacore 1600x at same clock speeds as the 1800x and the quadcore 1500x at comparable clock speeds as the 1700x (the 1500x has a slightly higher base clock speed offset by slightly lower boost and XFR clock speeds). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_%28mi ... processors. This aligns with AMD's comments that they will not offer high clock speeds on CPUs with fewer cores.

CPUs with an APU will arrive in second half of this year so that's a bit of a wait. I think to recall AMD confirmed they would make such CPUs for laptops and desktops. Speculation on Ryzen 3 is that it may offer quadcore and dualcore models.

As the Intel i7-7700k is about € 170 cheaper than the 1800x, € 70 cheaper than the 1700x and only € 10 more expensive than the 1700—and both the CPU and motherboards are readily available—and it massively outperforms the Ryzen 7 CPUs for gaming, I think right now for gaming on Linux you can't go better than Intel. See this benchmark: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... yzen&num=1

Don't get me wrong though; I'm enthusiastic about Ryzen If like OP your primary use is not gaming and you can wait a bit for CPUs and motherboards to be more readily available (and for motherboard BIOSes and Linux kernel drivers for Ryzen CPUs and chipsets to improve) then it will be a no-brainer to consider Ryzen 7 as Intel offers nothing at a remotely comparable price point that can match Ryzen 7 performance wise for applications that benefit from having more than 4 cores.

[Citizen229]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvN3c-tYIMs
this video is a good reference for those who care about games. I will however state this guy is either not neutral or just plain forgot to disclose the clock of the intel chip. So much so he discloses it as the first comment to the video. This video is a 1700 OC to 3.7 versus a 7700k which you find later is OC to 4.7. The data he pulls is amazing.

It basically shows that unless you strive for Epen statistics cpu's anymore do not matter. It takes software to see the difference.

[xenopeek]

As shown by the Phoronix benchmark, with the i7-7700k attaining about 30% more FPS on 4K for most tested games, there is yet a big difference from the CPU on Linux. And that is with comparing the i7-7700k to the € 170 more expensive 1800x. Performance wise it will be a bigger difference with a quadcore Ryzen 5 though at least that should be cheaper than the i7-7700k.

[mike acker]

i felt the AMD Product Launch was very interesting

the RYZEN chip system approaches productivity from an "instructions per clock" method. This will be an advantage to applications that make advantage of multi-threading -- the more the better. The presentation notes that some apps that are being used as "benchmarks" in the press today -- are not optimized for multi-threading as much as they might be --and that this is being addressed by some devs.

the presentation also addresses over-clocking -- and notes that as you over-clock a cpu chip your TDP and heat are going up. at 5MHZ you'll likely need liquid nitrogen......

AMD knows more about this than I do -- so -- my thinking is -- they're most likely "on the right track".

the substance here though seems plain to me: we are seeing the first series in the first quarter of a new game. there's more to come.

as an AMD/Raedeon fan -- I'm enthusased.

[coffee412]

Did you order anything yet? This launch seems to be a fail, thanks to the mobo manufacturers. Extra horrible bios at launch as well as limited supply. In time this will not be the case. These chips are benchmarking 5% to 8% below intel counterpart. Lets think about that for a second. 5-8% versus chips that have had firmware updates and bios updates for 2.5-5 years. Not to mention ram clock speeds being unchangeable on most of the current boards. And all at 1/3 the price (1700 version).

I am still waiting for the APU line to hit. The tasks I do, do not require 8 cores. Games like fewer cores and more clock and anything new can web browse. Unless AMD does do eventually do a straight quad core cpu. If anyone else is interested in APU's, BE WARNED. AMD will first be revamping the bulldozer chip. These will feature stupidly low TDP, but more or less the same clock and gpu specs. Then after that they will be doing the new line of APU's.

First off, I want to comment on the release of the Ryzen processor and what a lot of people are saying. Basically, Everyone is pretty darn wrong on what they are saying or thinking. What the truth is, is that the Ryzen is a pretty darn big success. Im sure everyone here knows that happens when you run some piece of hardware on code that is not designed for it. It tends to work but not that well. Well, Thats what a lot of people are doing. Most software is geared towards Intel processors and so its not going to represent the real benchmarks of the Ryzen processor. Especially when you play some game with it and compare it to Intel processors. Right now game developers are receiving software packages and help from AMD to help code their games to use the new Ryzen. As soon as this starts to happen people will begin to understand that the Ryzen is a great chip.

Now, I have ordered and have begun receiving my parts for my "FrankenRyzen" build. To understand what I am building let me just comment that I am not buying Ryzen to game with. The only real game I play is warzone2100 with a friend in England. I am in the States. I am building this new Ryzen box to use for my small business. I will be running several VMs and doing a lot of filesystem repairs and testing of hard drives. So, I wanted to be able to have hotswap capibilities and also want some form of protection in the way of a raid or two. I will also be surfing the web / email ect.. with this box.

My parts are as follows:

AMD x1800 processor
32 gigs of RAM (Xeno, I am following your lead on this )
2 250 gig SSD drives (will be raid1 with Linux Mint)
4 Seagate 2 TB drives for Raid5 configuration
RX480 Video card - the 4 gig memory card.
ASUS Prime x370pro board
750 watt power supply
3.5 dual drive caddy for the floppy drive bay (to hold the ssd's).
iStarUSA Rackmount case with 5 hotswap bays Model: D-4-B350PL
Noctua low profile heatsink and fan. Model: NH-L9x65

I have a DVD burner already to put in it.

[Citizen229]

Agreed the chips are awesome. I especially like the difference in power consumption between each brands 3.0x8 cpus. Amd's being 65w TDP and intels 140w TDP. this is a major reversal from the 125w TDP of the am3+ line. Now there are sacrifices made in there like less pcie pipelines and such. Even yours at 95W TDP will make up cost eventually had you just gone with the "not so awesome" upgrade to an am3+ 125w TDP 8 core(or more..). These chips are going to join the rest of the monsters that will make the task of encoding( high load crunching) as easy as chewing gum.

I realize you are not a gamer, that was not the point. The point of my gamer statements is that it is the majority of hardware tests you are going to see. So we will have to pretend to be gamers to assimilate the data. And this data will obviously be windows benchmarks and not linux benchmarks. Now with that said, your new rig is a gaming monster, even if you did not intend it to be:P when you put the near best of components together, thats kinda what happens:P