Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

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xenopeek
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by xenopeek » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:15 pm

The Register are alleging in https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/0 ... ty_bullet/ that the reason Canonical dropped dropped Unity8, phone and convergence is that those departments are unlikely to become profitable to Canonical and it has thus laid off staff there. In a move to polish the company for outside investors. It makes sense for Canonical to focus its investments on its growth areas and those are cloud, security and IoT.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by 1.618 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:16 pm

I moved to Mate because I didn't like Gnome3, personally I'm more than happy to stcick with Mate and I'm sure people will fork Unity and Mir, it is open source after all so these things can still live on!

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by Hoser Rob » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:39 pm

Ubuntu Phone and Mobile have been a total disaster. They've all been very overpriced and very buggy.

The biggest mistake I ever made with Linux was installing the Unity version of Ubuntu. I hated it. One of the main reasons I finally installed Linux was that I really didn't like the way WIndows was going with 8. It's basically a tablet interface on a desktop, which is just stupid. Apple at least has enough sense not to do that.

And guess what? Unity is a tablet interface on a desktop too. Gnome 3 isn't going to tempt me away from Xfce but it's way better than Unity.

I think this is the smartest thing they've done recently.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by mike acker » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:55 pm

all of which leads us to ponder: Whither Canonical? and if Canonical heads for greener pastures how does this impact Mint? to my thinking: I like the LMDE version anyway.
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by KBD47 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:22 pm

xenopeek wrote:The Register are alleging in https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/0 ... ty_bullet/ that the reason Canonical dropped dropped Unity8, phone and convergence is that those departments are unlikely to become profitable to Canonical and it has thus laid off staff there. In a move to polish the company for outside investors. It makes sense for Canonical to focus its investments on its growth areas and those are cloud, security and IoT.
Yes, that is the only thing that makes sense. Ubuntu is flushing lots of time and effort down the drain. I wondered last night--if Shuttleworth has lost his appetite for his 'white whale' will he even want to continue Ubuntu? Selling it is the one thing that makes sense, at least making it profitable to sell. He is talking about investors, but I wonder if he is also thinking about getting out of it.
Perhaps we will eventually see something like a Redhat version of Ubuntu and community supported versions of open source editions.
I'm glad Mint has Debian as a back up plan depending how things work out.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by KBD47 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:37 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:Ubuntu Phone and Mobile have been a total disaster. They've all been very overpriced and very buggy.

The biggest mistake I ever made with Linux was installing the Unity version of Ubuntu. I hated it. One of the main reasons I finally installed Linux was that I really didn't like the way WIndows was going with 8. It's basically a tablet interface on a desktop, which is just stupid. Apple at least has enough sense not to do that.

And guess what? Unity is a tablet interface on a desktop too. Gnome 3 isn't going to tempt me away from Xfce but it's way better than Unity.

I think this is the smartest thing they've done recently.
And Gnome is also basically a tablet interface on a desktop. Gnome was chasing mobile when they moved from Gnome 2 just as much as Unity was. I think Gnome is a terrible default choice for the main Linux OS's. (And so did Shuttleworth and his team). Thankfully there are some better, IMO, choices like Mint.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by DeMus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:50 pm

xenopeek wrote:While Canonical will no longer pay anybody to work on Unity future that doesn't mean others can't work on Unity future — either continuing the project as-is or forking it if that is needed for governance. One Unity developer has already commented they will continue their work on Unity future. In fact, it looks like a fork is happening: http://unity8.org/. It's likely that an "Ubuntu Unity" edition will be born and Unity will continue as a fully community effort. Likely development speed will be impacted but for those users that wanted Unity on Qt there is possible hope.
I've left Ubuntu when Gnome killed Gnome 2 and came with Gnome 3, about the same time when Ubuntu came with their Unity (or diversity as it was called by many) Never liked it, never will.
When it is continued by somebody (or group of people) it would be interesting to see it become more popular than the real Ubuntu. That would be a laugh.
I really can't see why people use either Unity or Gnome 3, they are both terrible. Just this week installed Manjaro Gnome in a VM, and really people, how can you like this?

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by all41 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:19 pm

Wonder if sleeping with ms has a role in the decision?
Hoser said 'One of the main reasons I finally installed Linux was that I really didn't like the way WIndows was going with 8.'
Bet you just love W10 :P

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by xenopeek » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:35 pm

Tablets were a buzzword for a while years back. The larger projects like GNOME and KDE all were chasing this unicorn. Remember the failed KDE Vivaldi tablet? Anyway, we're talking 6 to 4 years ago in the case of GNOME and with all the handy keyboard shortcuts of Gnome Shell today I certainly wouldn't call it a tablet interface :wink:

With extensions like https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/ ... -to-panel/ or https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/ ... h-to-dock/ you can make it look more familiar with a panel or dock. We don't know yet what Ubuntu 18.04 will do in terms of customizing. Unlikely that it will be stock GNOME like Ubuntu GNOME provide.

As for why people use Gnome Shell; I've been using it as my primary DE for the past 3 years. Cinnamon/MATE/Xfce/KDE are all also great options but for me personally nothing else comes close to Gnome Shell in easy of use, looks and polish. It took my brain about a week to get comfortable with the Gnome Shell workflow. Now I prefer it.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by kc1di » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:20 am

Hello xenopeek,
Are you using 18.1? if you are using gnome on 18.1 would you mind writing a tutorial on how you install gnome shell on it. There are some on line for 17.3 but don't think they work for 18.x Thank you.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by xenopeek » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:48 am

No, I'm using GNOME or Arch Linux as that is a better fit for my needs. I have the Linux Mint editions also so I will have a look and get back to this later.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by kc1di » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:51 am

xenopeek wrote:No, I'm using GNOME or Arch Linux as that is a better fit for my needs. I have the Linux Mint editions also so I will have a look and get back to this later.
Thank You!
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by xenopeek » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:24 pm

I tried to get a minimal install of Gnome Shell working on Linux Mint 18.1 Cinnamon but something from Cinnamon must be interfering because I couldn't get it to work right. If you don't mind getting a full-blown GNOME install added to your system you can just install ubuntu-gnome-desktop to install the full Ubuntu GNOME software selection. That works fine. Mind that it will remove MDM and you must, when prompted, set GDM3 as the display manager. I have to eat my words though; Ubuntu GNOME do customize Gnome Shell and with Linux Mint setting the default themes it all looks a bit unfamiliar if you've used Gnome Shell before on Fedora or Arch Linux for example. Nothing that Gnome Tweak Tool can't fix. If there is a lot of interest in this I can try again when I have more time and write up a guide.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by mike acker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:38 am

another interesting read on this

Unity out at Canonical amid big shakeups

Excerpt
It’s also rumored, according to an article by Linux-watcher Michael Larabel at Phoronix, that Ubuntu project founder Mark Shuttleworth will return to Canonical as CEO, ousting Jane Silber, who has held the position since March 2010. That’s according to unnamed sources within Canonical, who also peg the company’s pending job cuts at roughly 100 people, out of what the Register says is an estimated workforce of 700.
...
The move signals an increased emphasis on Canonical’s other business areas, including cloud, VM and IoT, according to an official blog post from Shuttleworth on Wednesday.
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by KBD47 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:47 am

This looks like a buildup for something bigger. Perhaps a sale or IPO.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by Portreve » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:40 am

mike acker wrote:all of which leads us to ponder: Whither Canonical? and if Canonical heads for greener pastures how does this impact Mint? to my thinking: I like the LMDE version anyway.
Y'know, Mike, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was reading this thread's progress after my last post and was struck by the same thought, and I was planning to write a response when I saw this by you. Are you reading my mind again, sir? :lol:

I wanted to also say I think Clem, et al, should hopefully have an exit strategy in mind, which perhaps LMDE can help out with, should things start to go badly for Ubuntu.
Excerpt
It’s also rumored, according to an article by Linux-watcher Michael Larabel at Phoronix, that Ubuntu project founder Mark Shuttleworth will return to Canonical as CEO, ousting Jane Silber, who has held the position since March 2010. That’s according to unnamed sources within Canonical, who also peg the company’s pending job cuts at roughly 100 people, out of what the Register says is an estimated workforce of 700.
...
The move signals an increased emphasis on Canonical’s other business areas, including cloud, VM and IoT, according to an official blog post from Shuttleworth on Wednesday.
Yeah. So, here's another question: how does one have an IoT with one's distribution when one is paring down to just the desktop? (I'm combining server and desktop here because basically they're the same kind of thing.) Ubuntu IoT is, more or less by definition, a dead horse.
KBD47 wrote:This looks like a buildup for something bigger. Perhaps a sale or IPO.
One might certainly infer that. I'm not wishing that, but I would not be surprised by it.
all41 wrote:Wonder if sleeping with ms has a role in the decision?
It is a curious thing that now Microsoft is all Linux Lovefest. What a load of crap. It's nothing more than a corporate policy of "embrace and extend". I'm all for competition, but Microsoft needs to go. I can't wait to see the day come when their corporate offices are turned into a bonfire.
xenopeek wrote:Tablets were a buzzword for a while years back. The larger projects like GNOME and KDE all were chasing this unicorn. Remember the failed KDE Vivaldi tablet? Anyway, we're talking 6 to 4 years ago in the case of GNOME and with all the handy keyboard shortcuts of Gnome Shell today I certainly wouldn't call it a tablet interface :wink:
Yeah, it's just one of those things we see a lot of, like mindless sheep all circlejerking each other. I've one word for it all: disgusting.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by KBD47 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:45 pm

I would be curious to know if in the unlikely event that MS or some other big player bought and extinguished, or otherwise stopped development on desktop Ubuntu, couldn't Mint continue a main Ubuntu-based version since it is open source software and Mint is on LTS releases now anyway? I know Ubuntu builds its LTS on Debian Testing adding in drivers and firmware. Just curious what would be missing without Ubuntu? Couldn't Mint put the same polish on Debian Testing as an LTS release similar to what we now have or is there some herculean effort Ubuntu is performing I'm not aware of? I'm not talking about LMDE as it is built on Debian Stable with an older base and kernel.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by thom_A » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:45 pm

I'm guessing "Unity" means unifying desktop and tablet interfaces, which didn't make sense to me from the very beginning when the obvious difference in screen size is vast. Or the assumption that all desktops would eventually move to touch screen technology and users would all be touching their screens picking large icons here and there, which is just so silly. Windows 8 was a disaster and never recovered until Windows 10 arrived, which is still an attempt to bridge the gap. Of course, it will never work. Unless I'm missing something as I've never spend time getting used to these other wheel-reinvention which will remain alien to me.

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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by xenopeek » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Do not doubt Ubuntu desktop is of key importance to Canonical's growth areas. Developers working to deploy on Ubuntu server, Ubuntu cloud or Ubuntu IoT need something to do their development on and nothing makes more sense than Ubuntu desktop. So it's not exit strategy time yet :wink:

From https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical:
[...]
Finally, I should celebrate that Ubuntu consists of so many overlapping visions of personal computing, that we have the ability to move quickly to support the Ubuntu GNOME community with all the resources of Canonical to focus on stability, upgrades, integration and experience. That's only possible because of the diversity of shells in the Ubuntu family, and I am proud of all of our work across that full range.
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Re: Ubuntu drops Unity and moves back to GNOME

Post by Cosmo. » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:48 pm

Portreve wrote:I wanted to also say I think Clem, et al, should hopefully have an exit strategy in mind, which perhaps LMDE can help out with, should things start to go badly for Ubuntu.
This is what Clem said 4 years ago:
Clem wrote:At the moment Ubuntu is the best alternative for us. If that changes we’ll consider not using it, until then we’ve no plans to change anything.
Question is, on which point he might not more judge Ubuntu as the best alternative.

I think, that the decision to end the unity experiment is not enough for judging Ubuntu different to the last years. The question is, what did Shuttleworth not say and what else will change? This can be to the positive or to the negative, but at this time this is all speculation. Perhaps Ubuntu 17.10 will give more hints.

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