Adventures in Manjaro...

Chat about Linux in general
User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby MintBean » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:02 pm

I can only tell you what I don't like about systemD... Rather than doing one thing and doing it well (init system), systemD has expanded to try and do so many (at best loosely related) things that it's become a behemoth. Also, the developers are arrogant and regularly committed broken code and make no attempt to fix it, expecting others to do so.

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:58 pm

MintBean wrote:I can only tell you what I don't like about systemD... Rather than doing one thing and doing it well (init system), systemD has expanded to try and do so many (at best loosely related) things that it's become a behemoth. Also, the developers are arrogant and regularly committed broken code and make no attempt to fix it, expecting others to do so.



Yeah, I've heard the stories about the developers and their 'reluctance' to admit mistakes.
$0.02+a grain of salt...

rick gen
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby rick gen » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:29 pm

MintBean wrote:I can only tell you what I don't like about systemD... Rather than doing one thing and doing it well (init system), systemD has expanded to try and do so many (at best loosely related) things that it's become a behemoth. Also, the developers are arrogant and regularly committed broken code and make no attempt to fix it, expecting others to do so.

That's always been the case in the open source world.
One or two guys introduce some revolutionary idea getting their one month of fame.
Later when things go wrong they're nowhere to be found because they expect others to complete the job.

User avatar
CrazyElf
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:16 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby CrazyElf » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 pm

chrisuk wrote:
CrazyElf wrote:How is the stability in Manjaro?

It does seem like a very solid distro and as a rolling release, with the latest packages.

Stability is fine, I change the repo branch to testing most of the time (if arch-audit shows a vulnerable package, and I know an upgrade is in Manjaro testing repos without bugs reported, I'll update it). Arch updates go to Manjaro Unstable - then to Testing, then to Stable. You can contribute to testing in the main forum, and see what problems, if any, others are having before deciding whether to get a package(s) from testing.

So if you keep to stable repos and LTS Kernels, you should be fine... remember that even non-rolling releases have regressions/bugs in some updates.

(My main reason for using Arch-based distros is the frequency of security updates, I use LMDE2 as well, which is updated more often than Mint main editions, but even that is often a long way behind Arch/Manjaro. For instance, the latest version of Chromium browser in LMDE2 is 57. something - in Manjaro it's 59.0.3071.115. But Thunderbird is the same 52.2.1 version, Firefox just one minor version newer 54.0.1. So if you don't use Chromium, and the Firefox update isn't security related, you'd not gain much by using Manjaro over Mint/Ubuntu (although obviously there's other packages that are newer) )

So for me, Manjaro is stable... for you? who knows ;)


Yeah I get what you are saying. It is a YMMV sort of matter.

I agree that Arch based distros have frequent updates. One advantage I do find with Ubuntu based distros is that so many software support Ubuntu based distros first and foremost. Many drivers and hardware support are built around Ubuntu. That said, there is access to the large Arch based software in the Arch User Repository.

I'd imagine that Mint has a focus on "it just works".

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:25 pm

CrazyElf wrote:
chrisuk wrote:
CrazyElf wrote:How is the stability in Manjaro?

It does seem like a very solid distro and as a rolling release, with the latest packages.

Stability is fine, I change the repo branch to testing most of the time (if arch-audit shows a vulnerable package, and I know an upgrade is in Manjaro testing repos without bugs reported, I'll update it). Arch updates go to Manjaro Unstable - then to Testing, then to Stable. You can contribute to testing in the main forum, and see what problems, if any, others are having before deciding whether to get a package(s) from testing.

So if you keep to stable repos and LTS Kernels, you should be fine... remember that even non-rolling releases have regressions/bugs in some updates.

(My main reason for using Arch-based distros is the frequency of security updates, I use LMDE2 as well, which is updated more often than Mint main editions, but even that is often a long way behind Arch/Manjaro. For instance, the latest version of Chromium browser in LMDE2 is 57. something - in Manjaro it's 59.0.3071.115. But Thunderbird is the same 52.2.1 version, Firefox just one minor version newer 54.0.1. So if you don't use Chromium, and the Firefox update isn't security related, you'd not gain much by using Manjaro over Mint/Ubuntu (although obviously there's other packages that are newer) )

So for me, Manjaro is stable... for you? who knows ;)


Yeah I get what you are saying. It is a YMMV sort of matter.

I agree that Arch based distros have frequent updates. One advantage I do find with Ubuntu based distros is that so many software support Ubuntu based distros first and foremost. Many drivers and hardware support are built around Ubuntu. That said, there is access to the large Arch based software in the Arch User Repository.

I'd imagine that Mint has a focus on "it just works".


Indeed. I borked my system about 5 times installing Arch updates, because I use old unsupported packages. I also tried (before MATE came out) to get Gnome 2 working in Arch. I should have locked it in lace, but an update to a photo-handling library came out and I installed it and it took out a library needed to make Gnome 2 work. Not saying this isn't the case in a lot of Linux distros, but it happened far more often in Arch than anything else.

Arch and Manjaro really are decent distributions, although the Arch guys are arrogant as heck, and you can really tweak the system to get just what you want.

Just don't install that 5th update...:D

They also don't have MATE implemented very well, and I had a few issues running MATE for a desktop I don't have in other distros.
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:57 am

Interesting. Number of hits on DistroWatch for Manjaro have increased, while number of hits for Mint have decreased. Hmmm....

Arch-based is not for the faint of heart, folks. Once you get some Linux mileage under your belt it's fun to play with, but I will never use it as my main system again. Buy a second hard drive and install it there.
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 650
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Lucap » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:51 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:Interesting. Number of hits on DistroWatch for Manjaro have increased, while number of hits for Mint have decreased. Hmmm...


cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current

Don't know if Ubuntu has done some optimisation or if Gnome shell is just faster than Unity but the latest 17.10 daily Alpha builds are silly fast compared to the older versions of Ubuntu.

It no longer has that sluggish feel so i wouldn't be surprised if 17.10 made it's way up the charts when its released.

User avatar
chrisuk
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:16 am

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby chrisuk » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:42 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:[...]
They also don't have MATE implemented very well, and I had a few issues running MATE for a desktop I don't have in other distros.
[...]
Arch-based is not for the faint of heart, folks. Once you get some Linux mileage under your belt it's fun to play with, but I will never use it as my main system again. Buy a second hard drive and install it there.


Just to be fair to Manjaro:

I installed the MATE version of Manjaro more than 6 months ago, and it's been my main OS and used for 15 hours a day since. I've had no problems with MATE or with any Updates (and I mostly use Testing branch.) The only difference between MATE in LMDE2 and Manjaro is, Compiz works best for screen tearing in Manjaro, Marco + Compton in LMDE2, and I'm using the latest MATE version in Manjaro (1.19 reported but I think it's actually 1.18.3 for most apps)

Here's the relevant info:

Code: Select all

System:    Host: xxxxxxx Kernel: 4.9.40-1-MANJARO x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 7.1.1)
           Desktop: MATE 1.19.0 (Gtk 3.22.17) Distro: Manjaro Linux
Machine:   Device: laptop System: SAMSUNG product: xxxxxxxxxx
           Mobo: SAMSUNG model: xxxxxxxxxx
           BIOS: Phoenix v: 03PA.M001.20110312.XW date: 03/12/2011
Battery    BAT1: charge: 8.7 Wh 97.0% condition: 9.0/44.0 Wh (20%)
           model: SAMSUNG status: N/A
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i3 M 380 (Westmere rev.5) (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 10113
           clock speeds: max: 2533 MHz 1: 933 MHz 2: 933 MHz 3: 933 MHz
           4: 933 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GT218M [GeForce 315M] bus-ID: 02:00.0
           Display Server: N/A drivers: nouveau (unloaded: modesetting)
           tty size: 80x24
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Card-2 NVIDIA High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 02:00.1
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.9.40-1-MANJARO
Network:   Card-1: Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter
           driver: wl bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8168 v: 8.044.02-NAPI port: 4000 bus-ID: 05:00.0
           IF: enp5s0 state: down mac: <filter>
Chris

Manjaro MATE - Antergos MATE - MX Linux - LMDE MATE

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:05 am

chrisuk wrote:
Arch_Enemy wrote:[...]
They also don't have MATE implemented very well, and I had a few issues running MATE for a desktop I don't have in other distros.
[...]
Arch-based is not for the faint of heart, folks. Once you get some Linux mileage under your belt it's fun to play with, but I will never use it as my main system again. Buy a second hard drive and install it there.


Just to be fair to Manjaro:

I installed the MATE version of Manjaro more than 6 months ago, and it's been my main OS and used for 15 hours a day since. I've had no problems with MATE or with any Updates (and I mostly use Testing branch.) The only difference between MATE in LMDE2 and Manjaro is, Compiz works best for screen tearing in Manjaro, Marco + Compton in LMDE2, and I'm using the latest MATE version in Manjaro (1.19 reported but I think it's actually 1.18.3 for most apps)

Here's the relevant info:



I have been using Manjaro for photo processing for a while now (Manjaro 0.8). More photo tools available in Arch than any other distro I've seen yet. Running MATE. No Problems. It was trying to install Manjaro 17 that I began having issues; when I tried an Arch install same issues. While it is stable, I'm still not using it for a daily system.
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
CrazyElf
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:16 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby CrazyElf » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:59 pm

I don't think that we will see another distro implement either MATE or Cinammon as well as Mint.

Manjaro might be worth exploring perhaps, but likely only for more advanced users.

User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby MintBean » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:27 pm

CrazyElf wrote:I don't think that we will see another distro implement either MATE or Cinammon as well as Mint.
Ubuntu MATE does an excellent job integrating MATE, although my personal preference is still for Mint. Arch and its derivatives on principle tend to ship stock desktops without modification so the out-of-the-box integration is not up to scratch compared to the likes of Mint.

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:17 pm

CrazyElf wrote:I don't think that we will see another distro implement either MATE or Cinammon as well as Mint.

Manjaro might be worth exploring perhaps, but likely only for more advanced users.



I ran Arch straight-up for ~ 4 years, and had a heck of a time making Gnome 2 (!) work on it, because they didn't offer MATE as an option. Problem was, making that work on a Rolling Release was NOT the brightest thing I have ever done! :?

Then they implemented MATE, and it worked for a while, but I guess they don't take that into consideration when replacing some libraries. I got tired of effing with it and tranferred to Mint, mainly because my manager told me, "Either get something that works or go back to Windows."
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby MintBean » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Arch_Enemy wrote:"Either get something that works or go back to Windows."
Love it! Good for your manager! :wink:
Arch isn't an OS, it's a hobby. Recently saw some Arch users touting it as the best option for those new to Linux... talk about out of touch!

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:43 pm

MintBean wrote:
Arch_Enemy wrote:"Either get something that works or go back to Windows."
Love it! Good for your manager! :wink:
Arch isn't an OS, it's a hobby. Recently saw some Arch users touting it as the best option for those new to Linux... talk about out of touch!


Well, it's equivalent to teaching someone to swim by throwing them out of the boat... :)

That's when I came back to Mint. I knew it was boring, but I knew it would work just fine, too.
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby MintBean » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:54 pm

Hahaha... yes Arch has its appeal. I'll go back to using it if I ever again feel the urge to become an overnight Linux Wizard, but until then I'll take something that isn't in continual danger of breaking.

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:57 pm

MintBean wrote:Hahaha... yes Arch has its appeal. I'll go back to using it if I ever again feel the urge to become an overnight Linux Wizard, but until then I'll take something that isn't in continual danger of breaking.



The other day I downloaded the latest iteration of Antergos. I'm just a glutton for punishment, I guess...however, I don't think I will be trying to build an ISO this time...;)
$0.02+a grain of salt...

User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby MintBean » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:55 pm

Ah, you're beyond help mate.. :wink:

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 556
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Postby Arch_Enemy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:06 pm

MintBean wrote:Ah, you're beyond help mate.. :wink:


Yes, I am. It's the availability of software and the tweaking that keep drawing me back. However, with everything going on, I still haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Current on the project list is to make an ISO of my system as it is right now with instalability and the few things I want to keep in the event of a disk disaster or an update that mangles the system. Although the latter certainly isn't as great a possibility as it is with Arch-based versions! ;)
$0.02+a grain of salt...


Return to “Chat about Linux”