Adventures in Manjaro...

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samriggs
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by samriggs » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:06 pm

I still have mint but rarely ever use it anymore, my family does to make it easier on me for issues though.
This is my workstation and I need the newer upgrades for a lot of software I use and kernels and since it takes me days to reinstall a rolling release just makes sense to me and why I use it, I was using mint for the workstation as I do love mint but I had to upgrade the kernel and upgrade the software I use so it was more bother then just going to a rolling release that has what I needed already.
Mind you that also means having to repair the odd issue that arises but so far so good.

ya not many use i686 anymore unless those who cannot afford a newer system, it does take more manpower to run both so it makes sense if hardly anyone is using it anymore.
Just sucks for those who cannot afford a newer system, but there are some distros that have the i686 working so they will just have to compromise and jump to one of those, unless a community member rolls out a release.

and yup I always stay away from community releases, learnt the hard way from past experiences, it all depends who is running the project and how many hours they can give to the project, if it is only one person or even two people it will usually have issues and slow on the fixes, so your left to fix it yourself usually if you don't want to wait, and it also depends on how much knowledge they have, some might know how to build a release but that's about it, which is why I shy away from them
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by MintBean » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:31 pm

Yeah rolling can make a lot of sense in certain use-cases such as yours. Honestly I'm a bit of a hound for new software myself 'just because' so I always upgrade as soon as a new Mint release is available. Rolling does have its appeal but honestly given my experience I would probably just go back to Antergos ('Arch' if you'll permit me to call it as such) before Manjaro. That said, rumour has it Manjaro's a bit less error prone, community flavours aside, that is.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by samriggs » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:41 am

MintBean wrote:Yeah rolling can make a lot of sense in certain use-cases such as yours. Honestly I'm a bit of a hound for new software myself 'just because' so I always upgrade as soon as a new Mint release is available. Rolling does have its appeal but honestly given my experience I would probably just go back to Antergos ('Arch' if you'll permit me to call it as such) before Manjaro. That said, rumour has it Manjaro's a bit less error prone, community flavours aside, that is.
As far as I know and I tired antergos once, it uses arch's repos directly with the ability to freeze kernels, so what happens to arch can happen to antergos, manjaro uses their own repos with the exception of aur if you want to venture into aur like me and arch enemy does, so it is more stable, which is why I chose it otherwise I would go back to pure arch again, I just need a bit more stability for the workstation.
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:30 pm

MintBean wrote:
Home sweet home. Honestly I think I'm done hopping for the foreseeable.
This round has got me really frustrated with Arch. Every time I install it there is a different issue.

I think a lot of the issues with tearing and other wonky video issues has to do with Wayland. I cannot find a good tutoirial on how to get Wayland out of the system and use a different compositor. Other wonks are the mouse flickering in the Lightdm greeter and on some of the foreign programs I install, like nautilus. I don't have any of those problems with Mint, but I'm still running 17.3. If it ain't broke...:)
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:38 pm

samriggs wrote: you should give it a go with xfce since it's one of there main systems and more stable you might have better luck, there is more support for it also.
Just watch out for the network manager, it cuts out the odd time.
I have mine pinned at 1.4.6 for the adapter since 1.8 had issues for me.
if it cuts out you can do this

systemctl enable NetworkManager.service
systemctl restart NetworkManager.service
reboot

to get it going again, I also put nm-applet in the start up applications to help it out.
haven't had that issue with any of the installs (MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE)

I'm that much closer. I have a DVD that boots, lets me log in with a defined user name and password, and starts Lightdm and XFCE (works much better than MATE using midfingr's tutorial) but still none of my configs take hold, even though I copied them to both /etc/skel AND my own home directory. Still comes up with a fresh desktop with none of the configs. However, the application configs work! I also have my AUR programs installed and some mods to xorg.conf.d to make special hardware work. Everything but my desktop configs. :(

I'll f@rt around with it a bit more, but one thing that I noticed the last time I did this; when it starts up I only have 253Mb of "disk space". When I make a Mint ISO it uses 50% of available RAM, so I wind up with 8G of disk space.

I never was able to figure out how to make it use more RAM for virtual storage.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:47 pm

samriggs wrote:
I would never recommend any rolling release for anyone that doesn't know linux that well or doesn't want to dig in and fix issues when they pop up, because they will.
One reason my wife doesn't use pure arch anymore, although she loved the speed
Yeah...where were you 6 or 7 years ago? :D
I'll tell you what...if you have a basic understanding of Linux, and you start messing with Arch, after a few years you'll have a much better understanding of Linux.
a note from charles (cbowman use to be with mint years ago) on my google plus for arch for anyone intertested
Well, if you're still using i686 hardware and Archlinux you may want to start thinking of an upgrade, or start shopping for a new distro. From the look of it Arch will no longer support it 9 months from now.

What hits closer to home for me is that ABS may be on the chopping block as well. Though that's more of a convenience issue than anything else. The PKGBUILD and associated files will still be available so they can be compiled with makepkg I assume, but I've become spoiled, so I hope the developers derail that idea.
I think they have brought back the i686 stuff. I know the multilibs are available, which is something that was taken away by PCLinuxOS. Wanna talk abour rock stable? Doesn't get much more than PCLinuxOS. That's because Texstar has it locked down. All the 32 bit libs are gone, so if you have a favourite 32 bit program, tough luck. I haven't messed with it for years, and that's one of the reasons. Also, anything from old KDE is gone, so no Nautilus, no Kuickshow, no nothing from the old days. I think kuickshow loaded from the repositories in Arch, not even from AUR.

It can also lead to breaking the system; most likely why I borked Arch 3-4 times in 6-7 years...

uh...ABS?

BTW, since loading XFCE THURSDAY, 4 of the things I installed are GONE! C'Mon, guys!
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by BG405 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:28 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:BTW, since loading XFCE THURSDAY, 4 of the things I installed are GONE! C'Mon, guys!
:shock:
I thought that was a MS (Win10) thing!
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by samriggs » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:10 am

:shock: what the heck are you doing to it over there? :lol:

the 4 things you installed are gone, I don't get that one, how can they just disapear?
Unless they got removed in and update or something.

Did you try bash scripting for your config settings in the bash.rc?
Just a thought, not sure if it would work or not but ya never know.
Not to sure what your doing over there.
or start up application, still not sure what your trying to do for your desktop settings, mine stay the way I set them, except for the mouse cursor which I changed, I can move it the icon folder in the root folder under share to make it default but I got it in my home folder under .icons so it brings up the default one first then reads my .icon folder and changes once the desktop loads.

Ya I hope they keep multilibs for a long time, I like em.
Yeah...where were you 6 or 7 years ago? :D
I'll tell you what...if you have a basic understanding of Linux, and you start messing with Arch, after a few years you'll have a much better understanding of Linux.
I was kicking around here messing with lmde in debian testing and unstable :lol:
I do agree if you want to learn linux get arch, if your just a normal user don't go arch, but one thing is for sure, you will learn a heck of a lot, there is no choice in that matter at all, learn or bork your system, and back up back up back up.
After coming back from arch for awhile other things that seemed hard before, become really easy, so it is a good schooling.
Almost makes me want to go back to pure arch again :shock:

Ya that thing with my wireless was just the network applet issue, I just pinned it to an older version that is more stable, it got updated and the manager as well and started not working, until I reenabled and restarted it reboot and it would work again, so I just downgraded it instead and pinned it so it wouldn't get updated anymore until that issue gets fixed.

EDIT: just found a htread that might help, maybe so maybe not
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=9133

another thing from the manjaro forum
open "Session and Startup" in the menu and see if "Automatically save session on logout" is checked. That's one way your settings might get messed up, if they are saved improperly when shutting down.
I made changes to my session once, went into the start up made sure it saved it on leaving then when I rebooted I took out that option so it would leave it alone from then on, or else it would of kept saving everytime I shut down with the possibility of messing things up.

Just more thoughts that might help
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:43 pm

samriggs wrote::shock: what the heck are you doing to it over there? :lol:

the 4 things you installed are gone, I don't get that one, how can they just disapear?
Unless they got removed in and update or something.

Did you try bash scripting for your config settings in the bash.rc?
Just a thought, not sure if it would work or not but ya never know.
Not to sure what your doing over there.
or start up application, still not sure what your trying to do for your desktop settings, mine stay the way I set them, except for the mouse cursor which I changed, I can move it the icon folder in the root folder under share to make it default but I got it in my home folder under .icons so it brings up the default one first then reads my .icon folder and changes once the desktop loads.
Was that in an ISO? My cursor kept changing back to the default, but I went into .icons and set INHERITS to what I wanted, so now I always get the same cursor.
In the ISO, none of my configs take effect, even though they are in both skel and my home folder. Completely ignores them and goes back like it was a fresh install.

I'm not impressed. Some things work like on the hard drive, some don't. Instead of 8G of 'disk' space, I get 235mb. I remembered I DID get an ISO to work once, with the same 235mb disc space.

Maybe because it's on a CD. When I boot live ISOs from distrbutions, sometimes things don't work correctly, but when I make a USB copy, everything works. I'll try that next...

It has, however, given me some ideas for adding stuff to my Mint ISO...
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Finally throwing in the towel. I can get it working but not all my configs carry over, nvidia drivers bung X from starting, can't install 2 core apps I need on a USB stick installation, even though with a small amount of massaging I can get the tarball and make the package, but in my repository it comes up as "corrupted" because the MDsum isn't right. Can't override MD sum checking in PACSTRAP, and installing them manually in a CHROOT has no effect. I also like the MATE desktop. Maybe next time I feel ambitious I'll try loading MATE and drive myself nuts trying to make that work...

If someone wants to mess around I can post my modified build, AUR and package lists. Maybe you can succeed where I failed... :?

Oh, and I did increase the ram size through cow_size variable, but modified it for my system and would probably choke any other system.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:35 pm

I had an issue with one package that had to be installed from AUR, and three other packages depended on it. Every time I tried to install it the installer would try to download it. Once I waited 4 minutes before cancelling it. So I did it by hand, which allowed me to edit the pkgbuild. I found a replacement at some university in Germany, pasted in the url and it loaded. But if it isn't in the pkgbuild, you can't install with PACSTRAP. So I requested to have the URL changed in the pkgbuild.

I got an email from someone at Arch...package maintainer? It said "Stop making idiotic requests". However, THIS time when I installed the package, I didn't have to edit the pkgbuild. Not only that, but up until today I tried downloading the tarball from the given url and got a "not found" error.

Those guys over at Arch are an arrogant bunch, but I already knew that.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by samriggs » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:44 pm

ya it all depends who your dealing with over there, some are nicer then others, others think you should know how to build a linux system from scratch.

For nvidia I just use bumblebee, some folks like the nvidia drivers instead but bumblebee works fine for my use.
I used nvidia drivers on mint but had some tearing, so this time around on manjaro I chose bumblebee and no tearing anymore.
Plus on manjaro using nvidias driver seem to be more of a pain to get going.

Aur can be a strange beast sometimes, I use it for about 4 things but never had an issue, I search first if manajro has what I need to avoid any conflicts, if not off to aur I go and hope it works with the dependancies and doesn't break other things.

I was actuallt thinking of attempting to try mate myself, I just don't think it's stable enough yet over at manjaro for a workstation, on mint it seems to be good but it's a new project over at manjaro so I'll hold off for a bit, gnome 2 has always been my favorite, just hope they get it more stable for my use.
I need this toy for development so it has to be somewhat stable for my use.

seems like the issue with that package from aur is from the maintainer more then anything else, it doesn't sound like it's something your doing but what the maintainer is doing, but that's normal for some maintainers, I had issues when on pure arch with some outdated packages from aur.
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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Lucap » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:02 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:I got an email from someone at Arch...package maintainer? It said "Stop making idiotic requests".
At least you knew he read the message unlike some of these people that just ignore or bulk delete their messages , he had the manners and decency to acknowledge you with rudeness. :P :D

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:27 am

samriggs wrote:
seems like the issue with that package from aur is from the maintainer more then anything else, it doesn't sound like it's something your doing but what the maintainer is doing, but that's normal for some maintainers, I had issues when on pure arch with some outdated packages from aur.
I always try the official repos first. The person who sent me the message wasn't the same as the package maintainer. I goofed and filed a Pull Request, but apologized for it on the AUR page and made a proper request. Still...I may not know a lot about programming, pkgbuilds, etc but I'm a bit more skilled at computers than most. I've only been using them since 1972...(PDP11/03, then on to the Mighty VAX...)

I reloaded MATE...panel crashes again. I just can't get away from MATE, I like it a lot, but I loved GNOME2 so I stick with MATE. If you like XFCE, stay with it. I'm so spoilt by MATE I couldn't get comfortable with XFCE, and what the heck did they do to KDE!?!?!

The only problem is, there are 4 programs I can get working with Arch that no longer work on Debian and it's variants. That's why I keep going back. But the current issues with Arch are making me look to it less and less.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:27 am

Lucap wrote:
Arch_Enemy wrote:I got an email from someone at Arch...package maintainer? It said "Stop making idiotic requests".
At least you knew he read the message unlike some of these people that just ignore or bulk delete their messages , he had the manners and decency to acknowledge you with rudeness. :P :D

LOL!
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 am

hi arch...or should i call you luke skywalker?..."luke...come back from the dark side"...lol...DAMIEN

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:56 pm

DAMIEN1307 wrote:hi arch...or should i call you luke skywalker?..."luke...come back from the dark side"...lol...DAMIEN
LOL! Can't help it. I keep getting drawn to Arch because of the good experiences I had in the past (and keep coming back to Mint when it blows up thanks to that 5th update...)
There are two programs I can get to work on Arch that will not install in Mint/Debian. :(
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:26 am

After a couple weeks fooling around with Arch/Manjaro I gave up. The main issue was the inability to come up with a decent ISO copy of my installed system. It's there, it sorta works, but it is not an exact duplicate. However, I do have tarballs of all the extraneous software installed, and rather than spending an hour or more reinstalling, I would be able to do it with a script in ~10 minutes.

There were other issues, however.

Even on a base install using MATE for a desktop, something is causing the panel to crash. I haven't figured out what it is yet, but I suspect it's Wayland. I do load the nvidia drivers, and supposedly there is an issue with Wayland and nvidia, but...
No matter what I did, I could not copy my configs in a way that would make everything work. Almost, but my 2nd monitor is portrait and it would always load landscape. Minor issue, but it works fine with Mint.

So, for laughs, I loaded Mint 18.2 on the drive (after completely blowing away Arch) and started over. Mint has Wayland. Mint has nvidia drivers. No matter which version of the nvidia driver I used, everything worked just fine. No panel crash, no weirdness. I rolled an ISO; all my settings came out, LightDM greeter loads just fine, all my stuff is there just the way I like. However, I knew there was some issue with 18.x, but forgot what it is. Shutting down. No matter how I shut down, it unloads the OS and hangs with a blinking cursor. Had the same issue with 18.1. It doesn't give you the "Remove the installation media and press <ENTER>" Another minor issue: the file systems unmount, etc, but no shutdown.

I guess the Arch guys have just dropped the ball a little. I was running MATE for the last 5 years on Arch, no problems.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Faust » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:54 am

Arch_Enemy wrote: .......
LOL! Can't help it. I keep getting drawn to Arch because of the good experiences I had in the past (and keep coming back to Mint when it blows up thanks to that 5th update...)
There are two programs I can get to work on Arch that will not install in Mint/Debian. :(
I have been following this thread eagerly and I was going to comment at various points , but what you wrote there just sums up the whole Arch "thing" for me .

As an old-timey coder ( starting with FORTRAN on IBM mainframes ) I somehow felt I had earned the right to have Arch work for me , exactly as I wanted .
.... and I was wrong .
I came to GNU/Linux with a UNIX background and I soon heard "the word" about Arch , and I thought I would have a head start on those folks tearing their hair out ...
.... wrong again !

I know that compulsion to keep going back to it , but I couldn't justify the amount of time and effort needed .....
... it made me think of those people who do difficult jigsaw puzzles , with the picture facing downwards !

I admire your dedication to it , and I certainly know that mind-set very well !
[ I saw the earlier post about throwing in the towel and I thought ..... Yeah , until tomorrow :) ]

Anyway thanks for sharing the details of your work here ..... it makes for good reading .

One last thought ..... I'm wondering if any pen-testers reading this thread have experience with BlackArch ?
... but I guess that would maybe need a new thread .
" And so it goes " - Kurt Vonnegut
The modern reality and the satirical parody are rapidly converging .

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Re: Adventures in Manjaro...

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:31 pm

Faust wrote:
Arch_Enemy wrote: .......
LOL! Can't help it. I keep getting drawn to Arch because of the good experiences I had in the past (and keep coming back to Mint when it blows up thanks to that 5th update...)
There are two programs I can get to work on Arch that will not install in Mint/Debian. :(

As an old-timey coder ( starting with FORTRAN on IBM mainframes ) I somehow felt I had earned the right to have Arch work for me , exactly as I wanted .
.... and I was wrong .
I came to GNU/Linux with a UNIX background and I soon heard "the word" about Arch , and I thought I would have a head start on those folks tearing their hair out ...
.... wrong again !

I know that compulsion to keep going back to it , but I couldn't justify the amount of time and effort needed .....
... it made me think of those people who do difficult jigsaw puzzles , with the picture facing downwards !

One last thought ..... I'm wondering if any pen-testers reading this thread have experience with BlackArch ?
... but I guess that would maybe need a new thread .
Well, it took me a few months to get the hang of it, but once I did I had a nice OS with everything I wanted. Granted, the 5th Update would sometimes bork the whole thing, and I got quite adept at reinstalling, but I was always able to get it just where I wanted. I finally said NO MORE UPDATES, but the last update was for graphics handling, and since I do a lot of photography I installed them. WRONG! They borked the thing as bad as anything else. My manager called and when I told him I couldn't look at anything until I reloaded (This was the 3rd time in 5 years) he said, "Get something that WORKS, or install Windows!" so I came back to Mint. That was just April of last year. So it's only been one year that Arch changed something and made it unstable. Or, more unstable than usual. Once I got it where I wanted it, it worked great.

I'm not doing that job any more and decided to have another go at Arch, but it's not as well implemented as it was before. What I did do was take some things from Arch, followed their AUR to the tarballs, and got almost everything into Mint I had in Arch, so it's no loss. But you're right about the jigsaw puzzles...tinkering is fun!
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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