Getting the urge to build another tower...

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Portreve
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Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Portreve »

It's been quite a number of years since I built a PC, and I've been getting lots of excellent service from my 2011 13" MacBook Pro, but I am starting to get that itch.

Yeah, you know the itch I'm talking about, the one that no amount of Gold Bond is ever gonna silence. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm right now in the very, very early scheming-thinking phase, so I'm miles (or, if you prefer, kilometers) away from building the thing. But, in looking at NewEgg and TigerDirect, there's obviously a ton of motherboards, just like there has always been, and I want to find out more about any generally known compatibility or support issues. So, I'm reachin' out to mah peeps here to see what you folks know and think about this.

Also, for graphics... what's the present deal with AMD (they acquired ATI, right?) vs. NVidia? I'm not a gamer, but I would like something reasonably decent. Should I just strictly stick with on-board Intel graphics?

The plan here is, once I'm financially in a position to do so, I will be buying this a part at a time, so there's going to be at least a few months between now and when I buy the first part, and probably a few months between the first part and the last part. But, I like to be educated and make informed choices, so...

Ok, the floor is open. And, as always, thanks so much in advance, folks!
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by revian »

Portreve wrote:It's been quite a number of years since I built a PC, and I've been getting lots of excellent service from my 2011 13" MacBook Pro, but I am starting to get that itch.

Yeah, you know the itch I'm talking about, the one that no amount of Gold Bond is ever gonna silence. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm right now in the very, very early scheming-thinking phase, so I'm miles (or, if you prefer, kilometers) away from building the thing. But, in looking at NewEgg and TigerDirect, there's obviously a ton of motherboards, just like there has always been, and I want to find out more about any generally known compatibility or support issues. So, I'm reachin' out to mah peeps here to see what you folks know and think about this.

Also, for graphics... what's the present deal with AMD (they acquired ATI, right?) vs. NVidia? I'm not a gamer, but I would like something reasonably decent. Should I just strictly stick with on-board Intel graphics?

The plan here is, once I'm financially in a position to do so, I will be buying this a part at a time, so there's going to be at least a few months between now and when I buy the first part, and probably a few months between the first part and the last part. But, I like to be educated and make informed choices, so...

Ok, the floor is open. And, as always, thanks so much in advance, folks!
I say go for it! I used to build my own Linux boxes and it was extremely satisfying. I wouldn't mind doing this myself in the near future. I'll have to hop on New Egg and see what their prices are these days. I've always been an NVidia fan, though that could change this time, but I never liked on-board graphics - I just don't like the thought of being "stuck" with a provided feature.

Thank you, you've just provided me with an idea for a project for next month!
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by MintBean »

You sound like someone who wants to build a tower, but doesn't necessarily want a tower. I may be mistaken of course...

Just to throw an alternative out there... how about a home server? Low power Xeon, ECC memory, power efficient PSU.
Jim Hauser

Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Jim Hauser »

I am using an nVidia GeForce GT 740 SC on my system. It is definitely not a gamer's choice but is supports 2 monitors with excellent image quality.

I have never liked any of the on-board graphics but they may have changed in the past couple of years...
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Portreve »

My primary concern regarding Nvidia is their support for GNU+Linux. It seems like I keep hearing complaints from the community about them, though perhaps I am simply mis-characterizing that.

As far as their hardware goes, I've always been a fan. I'd love to use it again, but not if supporting it will be problematic.

However, really, my first concern is motherboards and chip sets. What would the more knowledgeable members of this community be able to tell me about what motherboards are the best to buy in terms of support?
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by ColdBootII »

Portreve wrote: As far as their hardware goes, I've always been a fan. I'd love to use it again, but not if supporting it will be problematic.
Much less problematic than what an AMD discrete graphics card would inflict on you at this point, I think. I don't have any issues with a GT720 and the current 375 driver provided, though I'm not recommending it as it is already old hardware. Just saying, never had much of any problem with Nvidia on Linux.
Jim Hauser

Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Jim Hauser »

Portreve wrote:My primary concern regarding Nvidia is their support for GNU+Linux. It seems like I keep hearing complaints from the community about them, though perhaps I am simply mis-characterizing that.

As far as their hardware goes, I've always been a fan. I'd love to use it again, but not if supporting it will be problematic.
I have never used anything else and have never had a problem using them with linux. What you might be hearing could involve the latest and greatest nVidia graphics cards. The ones I have used are more middle of the road type cards. The 375 driver is in use here without a hitch.

Perhaps I have missed something along the way, I just know what works for me... Best of luck in your search! :-)
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by catweazel »

Portreve wrote:My primary concern regarding Nvidia is their support for GNU+Linux. It seems like I keep hearing complaints from the community about them, though perhaps I am simply mis-characterizing that.
I gave up with AMD video cards on Linux ages ago. Now I only run nVidia and (taps head) 'touch wood' never had a problem. As for the motherboard, that's easy. Start with the processor and go from there. I run two Ryzen 1800X behemoths and I'm as happy as a pig rolling in sh^h muck.
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by rene »

Portreve wrote:My primary concern regarding Nvidia is their support for GNU+Linux. It seems like I keep hearing complaints from the community about them, though perhaps I am simply mis-characterizing that.
Not mis-characterizing but possibly somewhat misdirecting. The issue with Nvidia is, was most certainly, in the context of the more advanced Linux users and specifically kernel developers and testers. The proprietary Nvidia driver is and always was very much closed-source and this meant that a kernel upgrade with (well-)functional video would have to wait for Nvidia to release a driver compatible with a to be installed new kernel. Things slowly improved through a "shim" layer that could generally support at least a few different kernel versions but this still won't really do if you are self-compiling a new kernel every few days. Certainly won't if you're a kernel developer who does ten times each day...

The kernel crowd is also the most advanced Linux user crowd generally and their opinion has weight in the community therefore, but for users the situation was always different. If you do not need "kernel freedom" you don't need freedom from Nvidia either and that closed-source driver did historically perform nicely on Linux; better than AMD. These days with "nouveau" on the open-source Nvidia side in the same manner that "radeon" is on the AMD-side, there might not be a large functional difference left for users or developers. Might, because if you get a new AMD card you get access to the newly AMD-developed yet open-source AMDGPU driver and additionally to a closed-source AMDGPU-PRO part that builds on it. The AMD-developed part can be important since nouveau isn't Nvidia-developed: the open-source AMD solution is provided using more direct, in-house knowledge of the hardware than the open-source Nvidia solution is.

As such I believe that developers may still lean towards AMD. AMDGPU(-PRO) is still newish though; does need to show itself to be a lasting well-performer. Nvidia will just be same old, same old and probably still easier to deal with for users.
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by stanley82 »

Can I say you get what you pay for? I got a second hand Acer unit with intel. It was great til it died, out performed my AMD E2100 dual core. Reason the AMD's motherboard had no graphics card provision and that processor is slow. But I liked the Acer case so I got an MSI mother board (refurb good deal) plus an AMD Athelon 5350 and my existing Radeon HD6460 Saphire. Take care the Acer power supply is an odd pinout. I'm happy with this set up but but I'm not a power user. Thinking way way back were things quite a bit faster with Win 95 and DOS? Oops lets not change the thread. Ian.
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Portreve »

Some further thoughts:

Intel vs. AMD:
I have built half a dozen towers for myself back in the day. Well, technically, I re-built a couple of them with new motherboards and CPUs, but in total, between fresh builds and re-builds, I made six of them. I've built several for other people as well. All of those systems were AMD-based units, from the K6 III through an Athlon64, IIRC. (It was one of those Shuttle XPC cubes with passive liquid cooling heatsink/grill combinations.) Every one of them served me well, but this time I'm thinking seriously about building an Intel CPU-based system.

Sound Subsystem:
As I understand matters — and please, anyone, set me straight if I'm wrong — even though the dedicated sound cards of old were great and all, Creative Labs equipment does not play well with GNU+Linux, and on-board audio has now advanced to the point that it's pretty decent. IIRC, there have been motherboards with integrated 5.1 or even 6.1 sound, but I'm not really looking to go that route for two reasons. First, I don't have the space for a surround rig (nor the cash to really invest in a proper one), and second, I'm planning to use my existing Logitech USB speakers anyhow.

Networking:
I built the house I live in, and at the time, I stupidly decided that I was going to go totally WiFi in my house. This has proven to be not as good of a choice. Nothing against wireless, but when you push a lot of data over the network (for example, backing up or restoring large files) it plays havoc with wireless mice and sometimes other things as well. Nevertheless, since I have myself to thank for there being absolutely no ethernet jacks in my home, that means I am going to have to go wireless with the tower. Now, one thing I know from experience is there are a LOT of wireless adapters out there which do not play at all with GNU+Linux, much less play well with it. Can anyone give advice on a particular adapter to get? I think I'd prefer a PCI or whatever the standard mobo connection is these days) but I will entertain a USB one, if necessary. I'd just rather keep traffic off the USB bus, if possible.

Motherboards and Chipsets:
This was really the thing I was trying to get at when I started this discussion thread. And by chipsets, I am trying to include discussion on several things. Obviously, the chipset itself (northbridge, southbridge, if such things are still used), but also the BIOS and EFI subsystem, because I'd prefer to get one known to play well with folks like us who are building something custom.

Graphics:
Not to revisit this particular topic (again) but I'm really not getting the kind of answers yet that I'm looking for. In light of all the security concerns we have uncovered, say, post-2012, I'm none too happy having to run proprietary drivers. I don't like having to run the proprietary Broadcom drivers that I must on my MacBook Pro to get the wireless working. Therefore, community-generated (or manufacturer-generated source-code-available) graphics drivers would be preferable. But apart from that, only looking at this from the technical standpoint, right now, who's graphics cards work more solidly and reliably? Who's are better supported?

Enclosure:
The plan is to reuse an old Dell PowerEdge 840 case. I got this unit when a local fire department auctioned off old hardware, and as far as I can tell, this case will take a standard ATX motherboard. However, all the research I've done so far has not yet told me conclusively that this is an ATX (or some other particular) standard-compliant case (with, for the moment, the original guts still inside, sans hard drive for security reasons). Can anyone else look at this and confirm whether it's ATX, or some other form factor? Here's a link to a unit on Amazon.
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Sgthawker »

I recently built an Intel Skylake (lga 1151)based system, and love it. No issues here at all. I had been an AMD fan for years building Athlon 64 up to an FX-8350 system.

I have a Sound Blaster Titanium HD sound card that has awesome sound that works fine with alsa drivers from linux. Definitely beats the onboard audio, even of today's motherboards. There might be issues with the newest Creative Labs hardware that I am unaware of.

I have an Intel NIC chip on my motherboard and have no issues, but with laptops I go out of my way to install only Intel Wifi chip based radios. They have PCIe (the interface standard on the mobo) adapters that use the laptop radio and adapt it for desktop use.

The chipset is different these days, the northbridge is built into the CPU, the southbridge is still separate. The Z170 chipset here works fine on my Asus Sabertooth Z170 S (it also has a cool arctic camouflage finish) and it's UEFI firmware is no problem for my multi distro boot setup.

I have 2 nVidia based Asus Echelon GTX 950 graphics cards I plan on using in a KVM virtual machine (that also have an arctic camouflage scheme) and work very well with 381.22 proprietary drivers from nVidia.

I use a Lian Li aluminum case that is for extended ATX format mobos, with a white Seasonic Snow PSU with white cabling for flair, but I can't tell from the picture on Amazon (too low a resolution) if it is actually an ATX format case (sorry).
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Tomgin5 »

I was doing some reading the other day about the board/consortium that is being used for the driverless automobiles and the processing power they have. Apparently it is made under the direction of Navidia. It uses a very large number of xeon cores with integrated RAM with each core. Essentially it is being used as a package processor. Each die is using a very small amount of power on the order of 40 watts or less but there is 2 of the processor chips on each board. As far as bit throughput it claimed to have something on the order of 4.3 TERRABITS per second. This is in the order of super computer range. Also in the article was the fact that Linux is being used. The mass useage of the xeon was used instead of the Oracle chip that used 96 cores.
Think that would work for your tower?
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Re: Getting the urge to build another tower...

Post by Arch_Enemy »

Jim Hauser wrote:I am using an nVidia GeForce GT 740 SC on my system. It is definitely not a gamer's choice but is supports 2 monitors with excellent image quality.

I have never liked any of the on-board graphics but they may have changed in the past couple of years...
Unfortunately, "on board" graphics usually mean the graphics are in the CPU.

When Dell first started issuing laptops with the GPU in the CPU we had a LOT of work. If the graphics burned out (nope, never happen!) then the CPU needed to be replaced. Luckily most of them went in the warranty period. For those that didn't...

I have a GT 740 also. Great for photo processing on two monitors.
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