Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

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lmintnewb2

Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby lmintnewb2 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:30 pm

Clarification, nope Penn no plonk or intention to PLONK was directed towards you. +1 your very thoughtful post. Overall it was just a suggestion as by my way of thinking can't see any harm and do perceive some possible benefits. A fairly passive method of encouraging people to do the right thing, shrugs. No reason someone would be offended by it. Honestly if someone were, then imo ... high probability it'd be better those people get offended and leave the community anyway.

Mentioned Mods and many others took the time to compile or write up such resources too. Seems like a discourtesy for so many to obviously ignore the time/effort taken and the common sense and effective information contained there which would obviously benefit users no matter what, shrugs.

Btw: Am totally ok ... if the Mint-Mods want to shut this down. Not requesting close ... not concerned if it's been deemed that it's better that the thread get's shutdown either.

lmintnewb2

Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby lmintnewb2 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:16 pm

@Penn and again +1 on that post.

Don't have a problem with people disagreeing, IF they have some meaningful objection, absolutely bring it on. Some already had ie: Not sure if the forum software supports this or has a plugin etc. Yep and thanked the person. You and most already know often not what you say, how you say it. The guy I did take issue with, yep look at his posts, can't really see any other way of responding to someone with that type of personality or attitude. Other than taking the high road and not bothering to respond at all, while still PLONK'ing them anyway. :D

Think all of what was said in your (Penn's) post was valid and totally get it. Are still plenty of communities in the gnu/Linuxsphere which are still elitist, snobby full of rude people who will jump on someone in a second for one of many reasons. Not supply any information, even the most basic to help people resolve an issue you're experiencing DEFINITELY. I don't often do it but feel like doing so towards those posters.

Have actually left a few such gnu/Nix forums due to not liking the prevailing attitude and the we are better than thou or xyz-distro(s) because we know more about tech. Won't bother naming names. To me ... that is not acceptable, even if the nixers there are much more knowledgeable than in many other communities. Aka: Just cause you've developed your skillset and gotten good at something, doesn't give someone a right to be a jerkwad, shrugs.

Ok ... shutting it, was just an idea, only an attempt to get discussion about it going. If someone with the authority at Mint HQ see's it and thinks it has merit great.

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby BG405 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:14 pm

I wonder if the "spoiler" code would work on this forum? A page with an easy-to-read list of common questions could be created which newbies (who are not inclined to navigate across multiple webpages to find answers) could click on to drop-down the content detailing the guide e.g. how to post system information. I would be happy to contribute to this in any way I can.

The idea is that some people seem to be overwhelmed by long lists of stuff presented all-at-once on the screen; in fact I find large monolithic blocks of text rather hard to read and that is also a problem with some posts on here, mostly newbies who don't (know how to?) get to the point. That's also rather off-putting for potential helpers.

It can be frustrating indeed when one asks for information and either the OP doesn't bother to reply or decides to make their own interpretation of the commands you asked them to try e.g. missing "sudo" etc.. I'm probably guilty in some instances of being in the category "the blind leading the blind" but in these cases I try to get the OP to post relevant information so that others can help if time permits. Feel a bit rotten when I see unanswered questions but also a bit irritated by some of the more demanding ones; especially those where the OP bumps their thread within a short interval & sometimes repeatedly so, seemingly without having done any further research and therefore no pertinent information added.
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lmintnewb2

Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby lmintnewb2 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:31 pm

^ Yep and thanks for posting, feel your pain.

As time goes by really do find myself becoming more selective in who I want to respond to( and as mentioned more inclined to PLONK certain types of community members.) The type you describe there is imo ... a somewhat different type of annoying poster. An O&E = obnoxious and entitled. Though they might provide no information, a confusing flood of useless information or whatever and still bump their thread too. All these things probably being one of the reasons nobody is replying to them in the first place and wouldn't be a tad surprised if advising people not to do that is in the "what to do, what not to do" ... resources. Majority aren't bothering to read. :D

Another I find REALLY annoying, is the one's who pop up, ask for help and then WHAM, they're gone without bothering to say so much as a simple THANK YOU people for helping me, I appreciate it. Nope ... poof, gone, that is until the next time they need help or want answers served up to them on a silver platter. Used to make a mental note of those types, see them make a habit of doing it. Be DAMNED if I'll try to help them ever again. Many of the regulars here would be more than satisfied with a simple thank you and acknowledgement of their time/effort. People that can't give that, here or anywhere else. PLONKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK ! :)

Sighs, did I mention I drink a lot of coffee and tend towards overthinking things ? Errrr, more on that, showing basic courtesy also has a way of paying dividends too. Not just because it's basic decency either. When someone does do the right thing, including even a simple thanks ... People who see that person isn't a selfish scumbag and conducts themselves in decent manner. Next time they see them pop up with a problem are more likely to go hey, it's so and so, they're nice/cool. Hmmmm they have a problem with xyz, I'll try to help.

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby Lucap » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:07 am

Anyone fed-up with the repetition of helping new users can either keep quiet or bugger off to another forum , it's really not that difficult.

The current hands on system works perfectly as it doesn't alienate those with difficulties or any other condition that may make them struggle.

They certainly don't need a Nerd Bully trying to humiliate them as being lazy and should just read more when this is a community help forum and not a tech support ticket system.

The advantaged trying to put themselves first before the disadvantaged will always be dumb flawed selfish logic and reasoning.

lmintnewb2

Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby lmintnewb2 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:14 am

Lucap, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post. <-- Errrrrrr, no thanks. :lol:

Funny so had to post about it, in other PLONK related news, tried to PLONKINATE Moem temporarily, knew could just turn around and unplonktify her. :D It was for science and she never felt a thing. The answer to the question is nopers, you can't BIG P a Mint-Mod. :lol:

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You cannot add administrators and moderators to your foes list.


UPDATE: However as a firm believer of where there's a will, there's a way. That goes triple for technology. So went off in search of tools to add to my plonk arsenal and quickly found this potential treasure. Though it's for blogs and haven't bothered testing it yet (yep ... on Moem. :shock: ) Feel 254% certain there are plenty of ways to go about enhanced plonking in environments where it may be natively limited. Btw: Am being a dork but believe such is certainly true.

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby Moem » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:54 am

It's only 'taking the high road' if you don't then go on and on and on and on about how you're ignoring someone.

There are some useful ideas in this thread but unfortunately they're drowned out by the 80% of noise.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

lmintnewb2

Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby lmintnewb2 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:03 am

Moem, hope you know am joking around here. Though think it's interesting to think about. If can ever drag self away from here. Need to do some additional research into this. Really push the envelope as I see some great potential in the field of PLONKOLOGY and some contributions I may humbly make. :lol:

Hmmmmm, take a web-crawler, fiddle with it some, have it setup to target certain usernames within the x-website list. Have it so that it periodically crawls those sites and removes any content posted by xyz-username(s) when viewed in your browser. Now that my dear friends and foes, would be pushing the plonk to whole new levels !!!! :D

Nah ... too complicated, custom javascript to do it ?!!!

Am not just talking about this as regards the guy above there somewhere. Mostly just cause it's funny and hoping somebody will get a laugh out of this nonsense. Anyway, believe you're right though, as was Mintbeans. Thread has run it's course or way off course depending on how you look at it. Will stop posting to it and let it sink into the depths. :D

Wait one more, for old times sake. Possible EUREKA found with this ! Thought yeah ... hmmm script, which next led to hmmmm, why try n reinvent da wheel, which made me think of greasemonkey addon, which led to google and so on so forth. :D

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby Moem » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:46 am

lmintnewb2 wrote:Moem, hope you know am joking around here.

Doesn't really matter, does it? The effect is the same. The thread would be much more readible with all that 'joking around'.
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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby Lucap » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:35 am

The most efficient way to ignore people is to no longer enter a thread , something i plan on doing after this post........

* Going , Going , Going and he's Gone ----------> :D *

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby MintBean » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:21 am

Lucap wrote:The advantaged trying to put themselves first before the disadvantaged will always be dumb flawed selfish logic and reasoning.
Really odd attitude. Your perspective seems to be that any attempt to make life easier for the helpers is stealing ('putting themselves first') from the 'disadvantaged' (those seeking help.) I just see a bunch of people, some wanting to help out. If they're 'advantaged' (presumably by subject matter knowledge) it's because they've worked for that knowledge, just as anyone else can. In the information age knowledge is a prize, not a gift.

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby stormryder » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:23 pm

lmintnewb2 wrote:....Nix newbs = Majority extremely annoying entities......Makes ya wanna poke out your own or the person asking's eyes with a flaming pointy stick....Wasn't in the most patient of moods last night.,,,,

Hmm, much drama.
New unix users are rugged individualists, pioneers in a wilderness of open source operating systems. Many of them manage to install a new OS on their computer even though they never had to do such a thing before. Many others would be perfectly capable of doing so but simply lack the confidence to proceed without a trustworthy guide.
I think a FAQ would be good, maybe add a direct link to the welcome screen. It could include language to encourage the user to provide more info if they do need to ask a question.
Some people won't even post relevant info when asked to do so in a support thread they started, though, but its no surprise really, someone who can't provide relevant information isn't likely to have much success with google so they end up here.
Seeing more poorly framed questions means more people who can provide good info and follow instructions are successful at finding their own solutions.
MintBean wrote:In the information age knowledge is a prize, not a gift

That's completely dependent on the attitude of those in possession of the knowledge. The developers of the open source software we all enjoy apparently believe sharing the gift of their knowledge is beneficial to everyone.
I've spent enough hours researching stuff online to know how tedious and frustrating it can be and while that knowledge doesn't often apply here, on other forums where it does, I am happy to help save someone else the time I wasted wading through a bunch of useless information.

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Re: Just a possibly good idea or not in teaching new users to post.

Postby MintBean » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:01 pm

MintBean wrote:In the information age knowledge is a prize, not a gift

That's completely dependent on the attitude of those in possession of the knowledge. The developers of the open source software we all enjoy apparently believe sharing the gift of their knowledge is beneficial to everyone.
I've spent enough hours researching stuff online to know how tedious and frustrating it can be and while that knowledge doesn't often apply here, on other forums where it does, I am happy to help save someone else the time I wasted wading through a bunch of useless information.
I agree. It was not an argument against assisting people. The quote was just to back up my point regarding the so called 'advantaged' (a term I do not like in this context)- all the info is out there for grabs with regard to Linux for anyone with an internet connection.


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