An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

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JSeymour
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by JSeymour » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:17 pm

lmuserx4849 wrote:
...and is destined never to become a mainstream desktop system.
Am I the only one that hopes linux never becomes a mainstream desktop system. :wink:
Point taken :lol:

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:16 pm

wallyUSA wrote:Logitech wireless keyboard & mouse work just fine with my Ciinnamon :!:
Likewise with my wired backlit KB. Even the function keys work.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Jim Hauser » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm

JSeymour wrote:
lmuserx4849 wrote:
...and is destined never to become a mainstream desktop system.
Am I the only one that hopes linux never becomes a mainstream desktop system. :wink:
Point taken :lol:
It does not matter to me... Linux Mint KDE is my mainstream desktop system. If we were to choose a desktop system based on popularity we would all be running Windows!

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:21 pm

lmuserx4849 wrote:
...and is destined never to become a mainstream desktop system.
Am I the only one that hopes linux never becomes a mainstream desktop system. :wink:
Sort of. Having more hardware support from vendors would be a good thing. Canon used to support it, but gave up when the x64 versions came out. I can buy drivers for my Canons, but photo printing leaves a lot to be desired. So, I boot Windows when I want to print photos. And that's about ALL I do with it. Win 7 works great with my printers, so there is no reason at all to upgrade Windows to one of their kiddies windows versions.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Ozo » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:28 pm

First, Mint is an operating system not a "Desktop". Second, the trolling op can kiss my mint leaves.

Go on over to the Windows 10 forums and see the continuing mess they have. Since, Windows 10 appeared in July 2016 it has been chaos. Every time (no exaggeration) a major update came out stuff got broken, keyboards too failed on many systems. It is a lot better but still many problems exist.

https://www.windows10forums.com/find-new/34437508/posts

For that reason alone, The Windows os fails to win even Honorable Mention with me. I do have a Windows computer but only because I can not load Mint on it. It is a Lenovo stick which is a tiny 1" X 4" computer. Anyway, I am quite familiar with Windows 10 but find it very frustrating sometimes. Since I turn it on infrequently I must upload huge updates each time which take a while and when you restart you have to wait again "please wait windows is loading updates, do not turn off your computer" Again a major failure.

So, "O, I have a light out" gets little sympathy from me :lol: .
Last edited by Ozo on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by phd21 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:47 pm

Hi "JSeymour",

You know that you are using an older Linux Mint v17 instead of the newer 18.x where you could install the Linux Kernel 4.11 or higher. You could try installing Linux Mint 18.2 or 18.3 to a USB flash drive stick (16gb or larger), updating the Linux Kernel and seeing if that works for you. Other users claim KDE is already working for them with the same keyboard.

I gave you a link to that "ckb-next" software, but I do not know if that would work in Linux Mint 17.x or not, but it is worth a try, even if it does not specify your exact keyboard.

Good Luck...
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.3, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,4gb Ram,256gb SDD, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by coffee412 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:01 pm

Ozo wrote:First, Mint is an operating system not a "Desktop". Second, the trolling op can kiss my mint leaves.

Go on over to the Windows 10 forums and see the continuing mess they have. Since, Windows 10 appeared in July 2016 it has been chaos. Every time (no exaggeration) a major update came out stuff got broken, keyboards too failed on many systems. It is a lot better but still many problems exist.

https://www.windows10forums.com/find-new/34437508/posts

For that reason alone, The Windows os fails to win even Honorable Mention with me. I do have a Windows computer but only because I can not load Mint on it. It is a Lenovo stick which is a tiny 1" X 4" computer. Anyway, I am quite familiar with Windows 10 but find it very frustrating sometimes. Since I turn it on infrequently I must upload huge updates each time which take a while and when you restart you have to wait again "please wait windows is loading updates, do not turn off your computer" Again a major failure.

So, "O, I have a light out" gets little sympathy from me :lol: .
Thank you. I could not have said it better. I will add though:

Windows is just a pretty desktop (?) that is harvesting users data for major profits. Windows 10 is a great step backwards for the users and is outclassed by even windows 7.

I have also noticed that windows 10 is a mixture of applications from 7 and 10 combined. Take a look at "Control Panel" and "Settings". When I have to work on a win10 box I usually right click on the network icon and choose their 'Network and Sharing Center' and then click on 'Conrol Panel' in the upper left. Its not vary well laid out. There are other qwerks to it also. What a pain in the **s it is to even try and get anything done in it.

Mint is my daily driver and probably will for life. I am also pretty tired of users complaining that Mint is just a 'beginners' linux flavor. There is nothing you cannot do in Mint that you cannot do in any other flavor. The desktops and features are well laid out and everything works as expected.

Onward and Upward with Linux Mint!
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:51 pm

phd21 wrote:Hi "JSeymour",

You know that you are using an older Linux Mint v17 instead of the newer 18.x where you could install the Linux Kernel 4.11 or higher. You could try installing Linux Mint 18.2 or 18.3 to a USB flash drive stick (16gb or larger), updating the Linux Kernel and seeing if that works for you. Other users claim KDE is already working for them with the same keyboard.

I gave you a link to that "ckb-next" software, but I do not know if that would work in Linux Mint 17.x or not, but it is worth a try, even if it does not specify your exact keyboard.

Good Luck...
I'm running 17.3 and Windows 7. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I tried 2 versions of 18 but wasn't impressed. I know Clem and the team try hard, but as Groucho Marx once said, "Well, all the jokes can't be good, you gotta expect that once in a while."
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Spearmint2 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:05 am

I have an Eagle Tec and it had similar problems till I placed a "quirks" mode into the boot line. I also used lsusb to find which USB plug it was using, and then set that USB plug to always be on. Here's it in my boot line;

linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-100-generic root=UUID=14f23016-8f05-4bdc-be9f-a2110bfea1da ro resume=/dev/sda6 usbhid.quirks=0x04d9:0xa0cd:0x20000408 quiet splash $vt_handoff

To do that you need to find the manufacturer ID and then add leading 0x in front of each part of it.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... b-keyboard

Here it shows my device recognized using quirks. I removed the others, left just the keyboard part

Code: Select all

cat /proc/bus/input/devices

I: Bus=0003 Vendor=04d9 Product=a0cd Version=0111
N: Name="USB Keyboard"
P: Phys=usb-0000:00:12.0-2.1/input1
S: Sysfs=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb3/3-2/3-2.1/3-2.1:1.1/input/input27
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=sysrq kbd event4 
B: PROP=0
B: EV=10001f
B: KEY=4837fff 72ff32d bf544446 0 0 1 20f90 8b17c000 677bfa d941dfed e0beffdf 1cfffff ffffffff fffffffe
B: REL=40
B: ABS=1 0
B: MSC=10
Use the quirks for your keyboards. You can use this list below for Corsair keyboards.

K65 RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B17:0x20000408
K70: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B09:0x0x20000408
K70 RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B13:0x20000408
K95: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B08:0x20000408
K95 RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B11:0x20000408
Strafe: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B15:0x20000408
Strafe RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B20:0x20000408
M65 RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B12:0x20000408
Sabre RGB Optical: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B14:0x20000408
Sabre RGB Laser: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B19:0x20000408
Scimitar RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B1E:0x20000408
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by JSeymour » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:24 am

phd21 wrote:Hi "JSeymour",

You know that you are using an older Linux Mint v17 instead of the newer 18.x where you could ...
Thanks for the suggestion, but there's a reason I install only LTS releases. Two, actually:
  • I've never had a Linux upgrade actually result in a functional system.
  • These systems I install are not an end to themselves. I do it to have a usable computer to get things done.
IOW: I am not the typical Linux hobbyist. (I don't buy a new computer every three years, upgrade my mobile devices every time a new one appears, toss all my clothes and buy new every time the fashions change, or lease a new car every two-three years, either. Heck, I have boots that are probably older than some of the respondents in this thread ;).)

In short: I don't like doing upgrades. I regard them a roaring PITA. A non-functioning caps lock key does not necessitate hours of installation, configuration, etc., to me.
Spearmint2 wrote:I have an Eagle Tec and it had similar problems till I placed a "quirks" mode into the boot line. I also used lsusb to find which USB plug it was using, and then set that USB plug to always be on. Here's it in my boot line;

linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-100-generic root=UUID=14f23016-8f05-4bdc-be9f-a2110bfea1da ro resume=/dev/sda6 usbhid.quirks=0x04d9:0xa0cd:0x20000408 quiet splash $vt_handoff
Thanks for the info.
Spearmint2 wrote: To do that you need to find the manufacturer ID and then add leading 0x in front of each part of it.
[snip]
Use the quirks for your keyboards. You can use this list below for Corsair keyboards.

K65 RGB: usbhid.quirks=0x1B1C:0x1B17:0x20000408
...
It looks like all I have to do is

Code: Select all

$ lsusb
...
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 1b1c:1b3d Corsair 
...
and add "usbhid.quirks=0x1b1c:0x1b3d:0x20000408" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub and run update-grub?

Would be neat if it solved the problem. I think, though, that I'll try it first on my laptop Linux boot. If it doesn't trash the boot I'll try the keyboard on it and see if it fixes the problem. Thanks again for the lead!

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Moem » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:52 am

JSeymour wrote:
phd21 wrote:Hi "JSeymour",

You know that you are using an older Linux Mint v17 instead of the newer 18.x where you could ...
Thanks for the suggestion, but there's a reason I install only LTS releases.
All 18.x releases are LTS releases.
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by MintBean » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:16 pm

JSeymour wrote:IOW: I am not the typical Linux hobbyist. (I don't buy a new computer every three years, upgrade my mobile devices every time a new one appears, toss all my clothes and buy new every time the fashions change, or lease a new car every two-three years, either. Heck, I have boots that are probably older than some of the respondents in this thread ;).)
Who does? The common theme here seems to be running into roadblocks based on assumptions.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by JSeymour » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:49 pm

Moem wrote:
JSeymour wrote: Thanks for the suggestion, but there's a reason I install only LTS releases.
All 18.x releases are LTS releases.
That wasn't the point. The point was I install LTS releases so I don't have to go through the ordeal of upgrading every time I turn around. This release has another two years to EOL, unless I'm mistaken.
MintBean wrote:
JSeymour wrote:IOW: I am not the typical Linux hobbyist. (I don't buy a new computer every three years, upgrade my mobile devices every time a new one appears, toss all my clothes and buy new every time the fashions change, or lease a new car every two-three years, either. Heck, I have boots that are probably older than some of the respondents in this thread ;).)
Who does? The common theme here seems to be running into roadblocks based on assumptions.
I'm running into roadblocks because there are actual, honest-to-Fluffy roadblocks.

As for "assumptions": In my personal experience, most Linux users are either IT types or tech. geek hobbyists. In my personal experience the latter group cannot wait to check out the bleeding edge. The former group tends not to be far behind. (Many, if not most, tech. types are tech. types because they truly enjoy messing with tech. In fact I can recall only two, perhaps three, out of all the software engineering and IT colleagues with whom I worked in my ±40 years of employment in those sectors that did not.)

I enjoy messing with tech, but I do not enjoy doing the same mundane tasks over and over again. I regard OS installation and all the dreck that accompanies it repetitive and mundane.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by michael louwe » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:57 pm

@ JSeymour, .......
JSeymour wrote:...
.
LM 17 with Linux kernel 3.13(the kernel has the device drivers) was released in mid-2014. The non-mainstream Corsair K55 Gaming keyboard was released in late 2016.
... LM 18 with Linux kernel 4.4 was released in mid-2016. LM 18.2 with kernel 4.8 was released in mid-2017. The latest Linux kernel available through Update Manager is kernel 4.13.

In general, new hardware devices usually require a new OS, especially for up-to-date device drivers availability. So, for full support, the Corsair K55 should be using at least LM 18.2.

Similarly, the Jan-2017-released Intel Kabylake processors are only fully supported by the Nov-2017-released LM 18.3's Linux kernel 4.10. A newly computer with an Intel Kabylake processor will not run properly on LM 17 or Win XP SP3 Embedded/POS.

So, phd21's recommendation is quite correct.

Those who want to remain on the 2014-released LM 17 should not be using newly 2016- or 2017-released peripheral hardware devices.

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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by BG405 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:04 pm

MintBean wrote:
JSeymour wrote:IOW: I am not the typical Linux hobbyist. (I don't buy a new computer every three years, upgrade my mobile devices every time a new one appears ...)
Who does?
My thoughts too, from what I've read on here and elsewhere it seems a lot of us are using older computers. In fact at least one of mine qualifies as an antique, at least in tech circles. Many Linux users are cash-strapped like me & have to "make do and mend" .. in my case including mice, keyboards etc.. :|
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Moem » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:07 pm

JSeymour wrote:The point was I install LTS releases so I don't have to go through the ordeal of upgrading every time I turn around. This release has another two years to EOL, unless I'm mistaken.
A year and a half.
Personally I found upgrading from 17.3 to be quite easy. I retained my home while going from 32-bits to 64-bits (!) and it went swimmingly apart from two double menu entries (screen saver and startup applications manager) that took me weeks to notice and all of five minutes to fix. I had to reinstall my software... all in all the whole operation took around three hours at most. I would not call any of that an ordeal, but opinions can and will vary.

Most Linux users that I know are the type to keep their hardware, clothing and vehicles around for a long time and I'm no exception. My current 'daily driver' is a Thinkpad x201 from 2012. It runs 18.3 very nicely.
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Pjotr » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:37 pm

Moem wrote:Most Linux users that I know are the type to keep their hardware, clothing and vehicles around for a long time and I'm no exception.
Neither am I. My wife and I have two cars, one from 2000 and one from 2003. :mrgreen:
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by sphyrth » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:56 pm

Here's something that I think is happening. Windows is winning the Desktop War simply because it needs to survive. Linux Distros doesn't need to win that war just to survive.

Here's a quote on this Filehippo article:
...it doesn’t look there will be any further surge for Windows 10 anytime soon, with most people only now using Windows 10 when they buy a new machine that already has Windows 10 preinstalled.
Although it says that Windows is winning the war because of that, I actually think it's the opposite.
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by BG405 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 pm

sphyrth wrote:Here's something that I think is happening. Windows is winning the Desktop War simply because it needs to survive. Linux Distros doesn't need to win that war just to survive.
It's a commercial entity, that is to be expected. Still, they are losing ground. :)
sphyrth wrote:Here's a quote on this Filehippo article:
...it doesn’t look there will be any further surge for Windows 10 anytime soon, with most people only now using Windows 10 when they buy a new machine that already has Windows 10 preinstalled.
Although it says that Windows is winning the war because of that, I actually think it's the opposite.
A good proportion of Win10 users are so because of the stealth downgrades¹ from Win7 (and to some lesser degree, with reference to ¹, Win8 and 8.1 editions). Those pesky GWX updates which you REALLY had to watch in order to avoid a forced change of your operating system. All in order to boost their "adoption statistics" to satisfy the shareholders. By then, thankfully, I'd already discovered Mint², so didn't have to worry about that any more.

¹ From Win7 Ultimate to its Win10 counterpart is a downgrade.
² Using a tablet I'd changed from Win8.1 to 10, then reverted .. and subsequently borked whilst pratting about with it, tried Linux Mint whilst attempting to fix the issue but became hooked. Ditched Windows in short order.
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Re: An Example Of Why Linux Has Not Won and Never Will Win The Desktop

Post by Pat D » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:01 pm


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