Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

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Lucap
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Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:22 am

Anyone ever have any problems with Sid as i've been running it for the last few weeks on a couple of machines and it's been very stable contrary to it's name?

That includes a complete kernel update including headers and DKMS files and about 3 Nvidia updates without a problem , i was wondering if i've just been lucky so far?

Neil Edmond
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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Neil Edmond » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:56 am

I'm not currently running Sid on any of my machines, but have in the past. Sid is not meant to be used on a production machine, and I never tried to. It was just a play thing back when I had the time. Sid is indeed very unstable.... it changes every day, sometimes several times a day. That is the very definition of unstable. And that's the reason for the warning. Mint has it's update level system for a good reason... to make sure things don't break. Well with Sid you have multiple opportunities each day for breakage. You have gotten away with it for a few weeks, and so did I, but I did experienced breakage at some point along the way. Especially when I didn't use the Sid computer for several days, or even weeks, then would come in and do updates.

When I out grew playing with Sid and wanted a stable system on which to get work done, I left Sid behind and started using stable systems. Been doing that for a couple of years now without a hiccup.

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Lucap
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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:01 pm

Neil Edmond wrote:Especially when I didn't use the Sid computer for several days, or even weeks, then would come in and do updates.
That was a concern of mine , it's just a pain having to use point release installs.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by catweazel » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:06 pm

Lucap wrote:it's just a pain having to use point release installs.
If you want to muck around with debian, why not use Stretch?
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck

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Lucap
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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:57 am

Stretch is not a rolling release and other ones like tumbleweed are a mish mash of of old and new.

Sid seems to be the only one where you get all the latest files without having to do anything other than the initial install.

As a point release you might as well use LMDE but then your stuck with the latest cinnamon on old software and loads of piddling about with Apt-pinning to get the latest files so it seems to be a no win situation.

So i'm guessing as usual i'll just end up back with LMDE and Mint and have to put up with point releases , Hopefully LMDE3 will need less APT-pinning.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:33 am

I've gone back to LMDE , i'm not going to wait for SID to break.

Hopefully upgrade will work every time there is a LMDE release as fresh install of linux is a pain in the ass , i'd rather something you just setup and then leave alone until the computer is upgraded.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lysander666 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:09 am

This is by far the best post I've ever come across on the topic of the stability of sid/testing. sid should not be thought of as a rolling release because it is meant to break in order to find fixes for the next stable release. You have been lucky up to now. It's great for a hobbyist machine but should not be used on a production computer. For that, install stable. And I don't see how upgrading point releases is a pain

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade
...done.
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by lmuserx4849 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:25 am

Lucap wrote:Stretch is not a rolling release and other ones like tumbleweed are a mish mash of of old and new.
...
You can do a search at distrowatch on Release Model (Fixed, Rolling, Semi-Rolling), https://distrowatch.com/search.php

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:30 am

Like others i'm wasting too much spare time Distro hopping so i'm trying to stick with either LMDE or Mint 18x as my daily driver as i seem to always come back to it.

I'm certainly not going near Arch again unless Clem ever releases a version. :P

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lysander666 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:31 am

Lucap wrote:Like others i'm wasting too much spare time Distro hopping so i'm trying to stick with either LMDE or Mint 18x as my daily driver as i seem to always come back to it.

I'm certainly not going near Arch again unless Clem ever releases a version. :P
You may find Luke Smith's Youtube video on "Stop Distro Hopping" useful. The basic premise is that the only reason one should move distro is if there's something important which your current distro prevents you from doing.

Really the only criteria for choosing a distro are considering a] which DE you like the most and b] which OS you understand the most* so that you can get on with your work easily.

The OS should be nothing but a smooth conduit between you and your work.

If you have a machine which is not a production machine, that's where you can install unstable/testing or bleeding edge distros. Otherwise just use LMDE or Mint 18 and forget about it.

* with relation to installing programs, updating software, efficient running, packages, available repos
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

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Lucap
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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:55 am

Lysander666 wrote:And I don't see how upgrading point releases is a pain

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade
...done.
I'm guessing you have never noticed all the upgrade fail threads when there are big changes to Mint's point release. :P

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Hoser Rob » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:54 am

Lucap wrote:Like others i'm wasting too much spare time Distro hopping ...
That's a common Linux phase, don't worry about it. It's fine if you have a spare machine you don't really need. But yes, ultimately it does seem like a waste of time.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lysander666 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:36 pm

Lucap wrote:I'm guessing you have never noticed all the upgrade fail threads when there are big changes to Mint's point release. :P
Haha you're right, I haven't! I run Debian and I've never upgraded from one Mint point release to another.
Last edited by Lysander666 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lucap
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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:15 am

Linux doesn't feel so free when you consider the amount of your life you can waste on it. :P

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lysander666 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:11 am

Lucap wrote:Linux doesn't feel so free when you consider the amount of your life you can waste on it. :P
Indeed but that is still a choice! i.e. If you can run Mint or Ubuntu you are perfectly fine in the large majority of cases, even servers. You can install your OS, set it up and pretty much forget about it. Running more advanced distros is not always necessary.

In short, if I weren't a hobbyist but I didn't want to run Windows or Mac I would be running Ubuntu, no question about it. But I enjoy learning about Linux and its related ethics so I moved.
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by 151tom » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:31 am

Lucap wrote:Linux doesn't feel so free when you consider the amount of your life you can waste on it. :P
I thought that was part of the fun when you decided to choose a rolling release or an unstable release.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lucap » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:51 am

Doesn't seem to matter what path i take with Linux i always seem to end up back with Mint , I was really enjoying LMDE that i thought it would be my daily driver but Mint is just so much easier being able to use PPA's.

I'm starting to understand why Clem uses the LTS release as it does seem to be the best compromise between stability and fairly recent software considering all the laptops that Ubuntu 17.10 is currently bricking.

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Re: Debian Sid / Unstable - rolling release?

Post by Lysander666 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:02 am

Lucap wrote:Doesn't seem to matter what path i take with Linux i always seem to end up back with Mint
Well, there's your answer then. There's often an OS which we end up coming back to - and that's normally 'the one'.
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

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