Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Chat about Linux in general
User avatar
JoeFootball
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1506
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: /home/usa/mn/minneapolis/joe

Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by JoeFootball » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:30 pm

Looks like Wayland still isn't stable enough to be the default for an LTS release.

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/ ... y-default/

Joe

stavpup
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:18 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by stavpup » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:45 pm

Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Lucap » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:16 pm

I've seen people posting ages ago that Wayland and Nvidia has issues with Auto Login and it's still not fixed so even the most simple of things seems to cause problems.

Cosmo.
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 17824
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Cosmo. » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:48 pm

With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7770
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by catweazel » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:06 pm

stavpup wrote:Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)
Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:
It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.
https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

scjet45
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 12:50 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by scjet45 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:05 pm

that's 'cause Wayland is like UEFI, or Systemd,, ..., or any other phoney binary(pretend-opensource) snake oils.
-It's a total farce.

stavpup
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:18 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by stavpup » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:42 pm

catweazel wrote:
stavpup wrote:Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)
Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:
It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.
https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018
Wayland will replace X eventually but is it taking too long. We are looking at another year (2019). Not until we say wayland in RHEL.

Penn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:12 pm

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Penn » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:07 am

catweazel wrote:
stavpup wrote:Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)
Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:
It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.
https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018
Usually before these types of decisions are announced there is a lot of internal discussion. If Mint was aware of those discussions within KDE's development team it may be a factor for the decision to dump KDE in future releases.

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7770
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by catweazel » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:31 am

Penn wrote:Usually before these types of decisions are announced there is a lot of internal discussion. If Mint was aware of those discussions within KDE's development team it may be a factor for the decision to dump KDE in future releases.
I didn't put any brain power into analysing the consequences but now that you point it out, that makes good sense.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
ArtGirl
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:16 pm
Location: UK

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by ArtGirl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:31 am

Great that Xorg is going to be default, not wayland. Wayland doesn't do pressure sensitivity for graphics (display) tablets ... many use Krita, Inkscape, Gimp, etc, including professionally, so Xorg gone (or difficult to install, for beginners/those unable to compile) would be too big a problem. With the devs already including so many graphics drivers, ensuring practically all devices are plug and play, I trust that function would be safeguarded. Mint impressively stands out as the only distro that does this. Continuing with Xorg as default, and those who wish to use Wayland can easily change to that, seems a good plan.
18.3 Mate 64bit
Radeon R9 255, Mesa 17.2.8, 4.15.0-13,
Lenovo x310, intel i7-4790, 16 ram,
Ugee 2150


For any advice I've been able to add, eg re graphics tablets, please search forum.

Image

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Lucap » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:49 am

Wayland definitely doesn't play well with Nvidia. :roll:

Since yesterday i've turned it off on Ubuntu and i no longer have a text flood at startup about nvidia persistence daemon and shutdown has been faster without any hangs.

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Lucap » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:31 am

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/30 ... ic_beaver/

Some more info about the problems with Wayland above.


User avatar
Flemur
Level 16
Level 16
Posts: 6279
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:41 pm
Location: Potemkin Village

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Flemur » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:21 pm

Cosmo. wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:48 pm
With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".
"Pjotr, it might be time to find a plan b as Synaptic doesn't work in Ubuntu 17.10 without a workaround. "

I've used synaptic in ubuntu 17.10 with no issues at all. I'll reboot and try it again.

Edit: synaptic works fine on Ubuntu 17.10:

Code: Select all

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: <name> Kernel: 4.13.0-25-generic x86_64 bits: 64
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.5 Distro: Ubuntu 17.10
...
$ gksudo synaptic [ran updates, installed a bunch of stuff, no errors or warnings]
$
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
Mint 18.3 Xfce/fluxbox/pulse-less
Xubuntu 17.10/fluxbox/pulse-less

JosephM
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:25 pm

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by JosephM » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:33 pm

Flemur wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:21 pm
Cosmo. wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:48 pm
With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".
"Pjotr, it might be time to find a plan b as Synaptic doesn't work in Ubuntu 17.10 without a workaround. "

I've used synaptic in ubuntu 17.10 with no issues at all. I'll reboot and try it again.

Edit: synaptic works fine on Ubuntu 17.10:

Code: Select all

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: <name> Kernel: 4.13.0-25-generic x86_64 bits: 64
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.5 Distro: Ubuntu 17.10
...
$ gksudo synaptic [ran updates, installed a bunch of stuff, no errors or warnings]
$
Of course it does. You aren't running Wayland since you're using Fluxbox. That makes it a non-issue :)
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

JosephM
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:25 pm

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by JosephM » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:47 pm

To clarify a couple things for people who may not know. Wayland doesn't work with the Nvidia proprietary drivers. This is a long standing issue that needs to be sorted between the two sets of devs. In Ubuntu 17.10 and early 18.04 you were given the option to login to Ubuntu, the default on Wayland, or Ubuntu on Xorg, not Wayland. If you installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted the option to boot into Wayland was removed from the login screen and you could only boot into Xorg.

I think the change had less to do with buginess and more to do with lack of some features that people coming from 16.04 would expect to have. Like remote desktop capabilities. The way these things are handled is different under Wayland and in a lot of cases I don't think they are mature enough yet.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Lucap » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:10 pm

JosephM wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:47 pm
If you installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted the option to boot into Wayland was removed from the login screen and you could only boot into Xorg.
I must have somehow been able to break it with my Nvidia card as i had to edit [ gdm.conf / #WaylandEnable=false ] then after that i was able to use AutoLogin and no longer had the shutdown bug.

:?:

User avatar
Portreve
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1418
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Portreve » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:55 am

I've absolutely no knowledge of the internal workings of the LinuxMint organization's processes and procedures, nor that of any other distro organization, though I assume they have to be somewhat compatible for minimum basic interoperability within the libre community. That said...

Ever since Wayland was originally mooted publicly, though for a "normal" computer user like myself many things would not be an issue, it's been pretty obvious that it's never truly been a worthy replacement for Xorg. It's wonderful that it has the benefit of all that's come down the development path since X, and then Xorg, have been around, and so it can get right, from the very start, things which have had to be implemented as patches or other types of work-arounds within X/Xorg, and that in principle it should be a cleaner design.

However, I don't think that's something unique that Wayland can lay claim to. If I were a software engineer and looking to write a replacement for Xorg, it would naturally be a cleaner design informed by all the wisdom previously accumulated. Duh. So at this point, I'm not specifically impressed by Wayland.

What I personally would wish for is a modern, ground-up re-write of Xorg which leverages all previous knowledge, is the cleanest possible design, implements a better design for future upgrades which don't turn the thing into another patchwork quilt, and above all starts out with the idea in mind that it cannot be a lesser system than the one it replaces. Remote log-in and a variety of other features have to be considered a fundamental part of the design.

Now, as a separate matter, and I know this is a delicate subject because there's the threat of just cutting off all support if the community pushed too far, but I really wish the GNU+Linux community would not accept non-libre driver software. Companies like nVidia and AMD (since they own ATI) need to get over themselves already. How you handle things in hardware can be a completely different thing from having a libre software stack up top in your driver. Don't they get it that the world is waking up to the fact that we're being exploited and spied on, and controlled or manipulated, and that we're just plain sick and tired of this crap already?
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

If your issue is solved or your question answered, please edit the first post of your thread and add [SOLVED] to the thread topic. Thanks!

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 913
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by Lucap » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:00 am

Ubuntu adds ‘Minimal Install’ option to 18.04 installer

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubun ... all-option

LOL , saves 500mb. :P

User avatar
BG405
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:09 pm
Location: England

Re: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

Post by BG405 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:44 pm

Lucap wrote:LOL , saves 500mb. :P
Not worth it unless they can make it small enough to fit on a 3-inch DVD i.e. <=1.4GB :P
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB305 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

Post Reply

Return to “Chat about Linux”