Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to use Xorg by default

[JoeFootball]

Looks like Wayland still isn't stable enough to be the default for an LTS release.

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/ ... y-default/

Joe

[stavpup]

Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)

[Lucap]

I've seen people posting ages ago that Wayland and Nvidia has issues with Auto Login and it's still not fixed so even the most simple of things seems to cause problems.

[Cosmo.]

With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".

[catweazel]

Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)

Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:

It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.

https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018

[scjet45]

that's 'cause Wayland is like UEFI, or Systemd,, ..., or any other phoney binary(pretend-opensource) snake oils.
-It's a total farce.

[stavpup]

Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)

Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:

It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.

https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018

Wayland will replace X eventually but is it taking too long. We are looking at another year (2019). Not until we say wayland in RHEL.

[Penn]

Indeed that is what Mint has done so far. Ubuntu is getting conservative after the project's failure (Unity etc)

Meanwhile KDE bucks the trend:

It is important to note that new features for KWin on X11 will no longer be developed after Plasma 5.12. Moving forward, only the features relevant to Wayland will be added.

https://dot.kde.org/2018/01/16/reasons- ... t-kde-2018

Usually before these types of decisions are announced there is a lot of internal discussion. If Mint was aware of those discussions within KDE's development team it may be a factor for the decision to dump KDE in future releases.

[catweazel]

Usually before these types of decisions are announced there is a lot of internal discussion. If Mint was aware of those discussions within KDE's development team it may be a factor for the decision to dump KDE in future releases.

I didn't put any brain power into analysing the consequences but now that you point it out, that makes good sense.

[ArtGirl]

Great that Xorg is going to be default, not wayland. Wayland doesn't do pressure sensitivity for graphics (display) tablets ... many use Krita, Inkscape, Gimp, etc, including professionally, so Xorg gone (or difficult to install, for beginners/those unable to compile) would be too big a problem. With the devs already including so many graphics drivers, ensuring practically all devices are plug and play, I trust that function would be safeguarded. Mint impressively stands out as the only distro that does this. Continuing with Xorg as default, and those who wish to use Wayland can easily change to that, seems a good plan.

[Lucap]

Wayland definitely doesn't play well with Nvidia.

Since yesterday i've turned it off on Ubuntu and i no longer have a text flood at startup about nvidia persistence daemon and shutdown has been faster without any hangs.

[Lucap]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/30 ... ic_beaver/

Some more info about the problems with Wayland above.

[JoeFootball]

Ubuntu 18.04 LTS Daily Builds Now Use Xorg by Default Instead of Wayland

[Flemur]

With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".

"Pjotr, it might be time to find a plan b as Synaptic doesn't work in Ubuntu 17.10 without a workaround. "

I've used synaptic in ubuntu 17.10 with no issues at all. I'll reboot and try it again.

Edit: synaptic works fine on Ubuntu 17.10:

Code: Select all

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: <name> Kernel: 4.13.0-25-generic x86_64 bits: 64
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.5 Distro: Ubuntu 17.10
...
$ gksudo synaptic [ran updates, installed a bunch of stuff, no errors or warnings]
$

[JosephM]

With this change also this discussion about Synaptic should be "solved".

"Pjotr, it might be time to find a plan b as Synaptic doesn't work in Ubuntu 17.10 without a workaround. "

I've used synaptic in ubuntu 17.10 with no issues at all. I'll reboot and try it again.

Edit: synaptic works fine on Ubuntu 17.10:

Code: Select all

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: <name> Kernel: 4.13.0-25-generic x86_64 bits: 64
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.5 Distro: Ubuntu 17.10
...
$ gksudo synaptic [ran updates, installed a bunch of stuff, no errors or warnings]
$

Of course it does. You aren't running Wayland since you're using Fluxbox. That makes it a non-issue

[JosephM]

To clarify a couple things for people who may not know. Wayland doesn't work with the Nvidia proprietary drivers. This is a long standing issue that needs to be sorted between the two sets of devs. In Ubuntu 17.10 and early 18.04 you were given the option to login to Ubuntu, the default on Wayland, or Ubuntu on Xorg, not Wayland. If you installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted the option to boot into Wayland was removed from the login screen and you could only boot into Xorg.

I think the change had less to do with buginess and more to do with lack of some features that people coming from 16.04 would expect to have. Like remote desktop capabilities. The way these things are handled is different under Wayland and in a lot of cases I don't think they are mature enough yet.

[Lucap]

If you installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted the option to boot into Wayland was removed from the login screen and you could only boot into Xorg.

I must have somehow been able to break it with my Nvidia card as i had to edit [ gdm.conf / #WaylandEnable=false ] then after that i was able to use AutoLogin and no longer had the shutdown bug.

[Portreve]

I've absolutely no knowledge of the internal workings of the LinuxMint organization's processes and procedures, nor that of any other distro organization, though I assume they have to be somewhat compatible for minimum basic interoperability within the libre community. That said...

Ever since Wayland was originally mooted publicly, though for a "normal" computer user like myself many things would not be an issue, it's been pretty obvious that it's never truly been a worthy replacement for Xorg. It's wonderful that it has the benefit of all that's come down the development path since X, and then Xorg, have been around, and so it can get right, from the very start, things which have had to be implemented as patches or other types of work-arounds within X/Xorg, and that in principle it should be a cleaner design.

However, I don't think that's something unique that Wayland can lay claim to. If I were a software engineer and looking to write a replacement for Xorg, it would naturally be a cleaner design informed by all the wisdom previously accumulated. Duh. So at this point, I'm not specifically impressed by Wayland.

What I personally would wish for is a modern, ground-up re-write of Xorg which leverages all previous knowledge, is the cleanest possible design, implements a better design for future upgrades which don't turn the thing into another patchwork quilt, and above all starts out with the idea in mind that it cannot be a lesser system than the one it replaces. Remote log-in and a variety of other features have to be considered a fundamental part of the design.

Now, as a separate matter, and I know this is a delicate subject because there's the threat of just cutting off all support if the community pushed too far, but I really wish the GNU+Linux community would not accept non-libre driver software. Companies like nVidia and AMD (since they own ATI) need to get over themselves already. How you handle things in hardware can be a completely different thing from having a libre software stack up top in your driver. Don't they get it that the world is waking up to the fact that we're being exploited and spied on, and controlled or manipulated, and that we're just plain sick and tired of this crap already?

[Lucap]

Ubuntu adds ‘Minimal Install’ option to 18.04 installer

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubun ... all-option

LOL , saves 500mb.

[BG405]

LOL , saves 500mb.

Not worth it unless they can make it small enough to fit on a 3-inch DVD i.e. <=1.4GB