Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Chat about Linux in general
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BigEasy
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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by BigEasy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:23 am

pcwolf wrote:
BigEasy wrote:For example, Fedora and OpenSUSE is not enthusiast's hobby and never was.
BigEasy ... could you expand this for me a little bit? Do you mean they are purpose-built for other things?

-Phil
Yes. Other (and only) thing is both Fedora and OpenSUSE is just the test platforms of innovations for paid distros RHEL and SUSE respectively. So any user of Fedora and OpenSUSE is just free (for RHEL and SUSE) tester.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Lucap » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:26 am

I wish people would add a [tl;dr] so i don't have to read a big wall of text when i'm tired and grumpy.

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by pcwolf » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:38 am

I had a Digi-Comp 1 *AND* a Digi-Comp 2 (the one run by falling marbles) :)

First networking was punched tape run through a Model 28 TTY through a 300 baud telephone handset acoustic modem to the local university mainframe. 1972

-Not Windows fanboi Phil

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Portreve » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:53 am

wutsinterweb wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:45 am
I worked for both the DoD AND the DoE in labs and our computers were actually Apple systems. I don't know where the "DoD is an Microsoft enterprise" thing.
+1 to all the points you made, wutsinterweb.

For me, if the code can't be peer-reviewed and independently audited at the drop of a hat, it can't be trusted.

For me, if it's about control of the user, I will not participate and I will not support it.

With the exception of a couple fonts in my own private collection and several that get installed via distro repos, all of my fonts are OTF. This is by deliberate choice and no inconsiderable effort on my part.

With the exception of two albums I bought online which were desirable but not distributed in any other format, all of my music is archived as FLAC. This, too, was by deliberate choice and somewhat less effort than my fonts, but nevertheless handled through a completely manual process, including in some cases having to reconstruct album art.

I have some data from ages ago that I only keep archived in ZIP files. All other active data that I use which is my own personal data is in one of several different libre formats. Work-related materials are in MS Office .doc, .xls, .docx, and .xlsx formats because the company itself persists in using MS Office.

I run one semi-libre, semi-proprietary program on my computer — Chrome — because it is more stable than Chromium, and everything else is out of the repos or otherwise from libre software projects.

I had wanted to make the move to GNU+Linux for a while, having dabbled with it on and off for a number of years. It took a good solid two years (obviously not working 24x7) to liberate all of my data (music, fonts, images, etc.) and once that was accomplished, I nuke-n-paved my MacBook Pro, and it hasn't seen Mac OS X since. I replaced the hard drive with an SSD, and it's never seen a proprietary OS or a proprietary filesystem.

Because I come mostly and mainly from the world of Mac OS and Mac OS X, things like plugging hardware in and it just starts working is not as impressive for me as it would be a Windows convert. I come from a platform which has always (well, I can't speak for now, but "back when") had pretty high expectations of usability, intuitiveness, and "It just works".

I still have memories of the 80s and 90s, when running a PC using MS-DOS or Windows 3.1 meant if you didn't know how to appropriately configure expansion cards (or perhaps in certain circumstances it wasn't physically possible) you might have to choose between hearing audio and using your modem.

I think just about everyone here is well-familiar with the Windows-environment concept of Windows having to go through a formalized detection and installation process for every single freakin' device you plug into it, even mice and keyboards, before they will work, even if that means in some cases a catch-22 where you need it to step through the installation process but can't use it to step through the installation process because it's not installed yet.
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:14 pm

Pierre wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:16 am
Technically - - that's most probably correct - - you can't get a Linux Based Desktop,
at your Local Store - - because that Local Store can't make any $$$ from that Linux Based Desktop.

and, that is the Real Issue, here
:shock:
that's why you can only get That Other Operating System for your Desktop.
:(

You can still order a Dell with Ubuntu.

I pretty much guarantee most Dell On-Site service techs will boot it up and go "huh?!"
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:18 pm

pcwolf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:00 am
Hopefully, my tongue-in-cheek came through. Anyway, I pulled up my asbestos underwear before posting :D

I *am* digging the geekiness of poking around and trouble-shooting the (admittedly few) bugs. Now that I am retired, I am in a very real sense returning to my first love: computers.

I learned a lot already from your replies ... I had forgotten the heritage of hobbyists cobbling together budget machines from industrial scraps out in their garage. Yeah, gram and gramp have an old Compaq Pentium and just want to Facebook and check their mail, maybe do some banking. I guess my biggest shortcoming was in building a late-model dream machine last month, *almost* all the cutting edge tech I could afford (although I had to settle for a GTX 1060 since cryptocurrencies exploded the market). The power glitches were actually irritations, slowdowns that could be worked around. Sorry I spewed like a noob

The computerists "Out There" are the ones worried about Linux taking over their desktops, of course. I still think it will never happen, mainly because you august developers have more interest in building better and better Linuxes than in going back to cleanup the wounded in the desktop wars.

Still ... if I had enough lifetime left ... I would work on building a better Linux that would take, say, a one week intensive course to install --

An install procedure that would take education, training, and study to install. A process that would take, maybe, 4-5 hours to complete.
Offer user the option of turning on/off power management. Offer user the option to install a Samsung 960 EVO M.2. drive along with commodity WD SATA.
Offer user the option of desktop/laptop varieties. Offer the user to install driver for discrete/on board AMD or NVIDIA video.
Select ALL the options and setups in point and click, drop-down screens. At install time. (Question: Is that anything like what happens when you compile a kernel?)

Of course, that can't happen, because of the kernel model holding everything that Windoze slaps together with scotch tape, staples and bandages. You have to fire it up first, to see what you get, and if that is what you want. Then figure out how to get there when it is not. Poster above was right: total freedom. For me: total freedom to be stupid.

Instead, all that customization has to occur post-installation. I dig that. I'll take it ... you all can immediately see my principle problem is I have to wrap my head around a completely different software model in order to get anywhere important with Linux. So I will try to empty my head of decades of forgotten habits start computing naked again. In a manner of speaking :D

Doubt I will live long enough to build my own kernels though. Shame

Thanks,
-Phil
Hmm...sounds to me like you need to try Arch Linux. Without any kind of GUI installer.

Go to Arch, download and print the installation manual, and we'll see you in a day or two...provided you do it the "Arch way". ;) If you're looking for a challenge, you have one! :D
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Moem » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:24 pm

pcwolf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:00 am
Hopefully, my tongue-in-cheek came through.
Nope. It did not.
pcwolf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:00 am
Yeah, gram and gramp have an old Compaq Pentium and just want to Facebook and check their mail, maybe do some banking.
I wouldn't want to be seen generalising so much. Some grams and gramps are sysadmins or programmers.
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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by Nate » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:44 am

On a serious note, should we want it to take over the desktop?
I'd love to see Linux gain some more desktop market share so that we have a higher chance of seeing more Linux native versions of some industry standard software that employers may demand we use (not a problem for me personally at this point in time, but I do know a lot of people that have a dual install or a Windows machine out of necessity rather than desiring to use Windows). But look at what happens to whatever platforms that acquire the biggest market share among the general consumer like Windows for desktop users and Android for phone users. It becomes lucrative for scammers to target those platforms and they will go through a lot of hassle to find some kind of vulnerability to exploit. At this point in time I've been using a variety of Linux distros since the late 90s (my initial exposure was through magazine cover CDs including Linux distros) and I've never had a single malware infestation from then through til now despite predominant usage of Linux. I can't say the same for Windows, even using it considerably less while having several antivirus/anti-malware/anti-rootkit installed and regularly updated, coupled with a firewall. I've been targeted through Android as well through what I think is malicious ads utilising javascript or something to push app downloads to my phones, but because I don't allow third party apps being installed apart from very temporarily to install a trusted app, it hasn't yet been a problem for me.

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Re: Linux (Mint, or Anything) will *never* take over the desktop

Post by MurphCID » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:35 am

While I agree with the OP to some extent, I have a question: Back in the "good" old days of Mandrake Linux (1999-2000) time frame if you could not install your own packages, and manually resolve all your own dependencies you were unworthy to touch the almighty Linux operating system. As I was banned from a Linux board for the heretical idea that software installed should satisfy all dependencies like Windows programs do. When did we as a community decide that "Hey that might be a good idea to have the software updater/installer resolve the dependency issue?" When did the shift in attitude change from "Hey lets keep this as a niche system for 'L33t H@xors" to one of "Hey lets make this a working operating system that I can install and Grandma can use without constantly bothering me for tech support on her broken Windows installation?" Whatever and whenever that happened, I like it. Also until the Linux world comes together and gets a little more corporate customer support friendly, I don't see us taking over anything. The corporate world wants rock solid, dependable, easy to train employees, functional, efficient software that an MIS guy can work on, connect to the network, and interface with the real world.

Some examples of Linux software that it ok, but not really ready for prime time (corporate) use is Thunderbird compared to Mail (MS, and Mac O/S), Fonts (sorry Linux fonts are less than stellar compared to True Type, and other commecial fonts (I am a font snob)), HiDPI support (still not anywhere as good as Mac O/S or Winders), Wireless (still not the greatest especially with Realtech cards) but on the other hand, the thing best about linux, is unless you need to, you never need to reboot, you never need to touch the operating system for anything unless you want to do so, and you never, ever have under normal usage a BSOD.

Linux has matured to the stage of "turn it on, and it works" where it is stable enough, good enough to install my my 80 year old dad's computer, and he never has to foul around with Windows, and the update and wait 30 minutes while it configures everything, and then you have to go back in and reset your settings. While we may not take over the desktop, we are lightyears ahead of what I encountered back in the late 1990's/early 2000's with the "L33t H@xor" mentality I found back then.

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