Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

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rickNS
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Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by rickNS » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am

Did a little distro hopping, not because I dislike mint at all. I like mint very much. I tried out of boredom I guess, and the very nice looking Youtube videos I watched.

Both were NOT the experience I was expecting based on those videos.
The Debian installed without anything on the panel, not too big a deal, but the control center leaves much to be desired compared to mint, there is no software center, nor update manager. I can't believe it is rated as #3 on distrowatch.
Solus 3 looks real nice, and polished on the videos. It installed easily, and looked OK. Then after doing recommended (250+GB) updates the software center / updater crashed. So I "sudo eopkg up" for another 400+MB of updates, which TOTALLY wrecked the system, fuzzy screen, no panel, no mouse. I do not see the point in re-installing.

From this I learned;
1) you can't believe everything you see on youtube. Some of those people took considerable time to get those systems to look as they do.
2) the software center in Solus might be faster than the one in Mint, but the one in Mint WORKS.
Mint 18 mate on 2 identical Thinkpad T420's

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by stormryder » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:41 pm

rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
there is no software center
It has the synaptic package manager, which I now use exclusively anyway, but you are right about the updater you just run sudo apt-get update to update. Since the spectre and meltdown stupidity I've been updating everything anyway so there is little difference right now.
I actually really liked Debian but I couldn't get the Mint menu to work on the Mate DE and Mate's own menu is terrible.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by rickNS » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:32 pm

stormryder wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:41 pm
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
there is no software center
It has the synaptic package manager, which I now use exclusively anyway, but you are right about the updater you just run sudo apt-get update to update. Since the spectre and meltdown stupidity I've been updating everything anyway so there is little difference right now.
I actually really liked Debian but I couldn't get the Mint menu to work on the Mate DE and Mate's own menu is terrible.
I agree S. ryder, package manager is great. ESP if you know what you want, or you want to check what version you have installed etc. Software manager is good for "window shopping" for stuff you don't know you need. Just seeing what is available, + the screen shots /reviews. I like how Mint gives you both.

And the update manager is far superior to software center in Solus, as it puts the kernels at level 5. Of the near 400 updates Solus needed I had no intention of looking through them all to find out what was what. Problem being, kernel got updated, my hardware doesn't like the new one, can't get guest additions installed, because kernel current doesn't apply. Knowing the problem is half the solution. WORKING..........
Mint 18 mate on 2 identical Thinkpad T420's

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lysander666 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:43 am

rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
Did a little distro hopping, not because I dislike mint at all. I like mint very much. I tried out of boredom I guess, and the very nice looking Youtube videos I watched. Both were NOT the experience I was expecting based on those videos.
Hard to know what you mean without linking to the videos. Debian can look very good, though it depends what DE you install. You have several to choose from - GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE among others. Unlike Mint you don't have to download one ISO per DE. You can install Debian base, add a DE, add another, remove at will.
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
The Debian installed without anything on the panel, not too big a deal, but the control center leaves much to be desired compared to mint, there is no software center, nor update manager.
You have to understand that different OSs have different ethics and philosophies. Mint and Ubuntu are about ease of use and quick adoption, Debian is about totally libre software, nothing proprietary. As a result, it is a lot more DIY than other OSs. It is not an out-of-the-box distro.

As for the software centre, it's not necessary. I have used Debian as my primary OS for nearly a year and search/install/update everything through the command line.
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
I can't believe it is rated as #3 on distrowatch.
It deserves to be, it's an excellent OS. But it necessitates more time and research than Mint or Ubuntu.
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
Some of those people took considerable time to get those systems to look as they do.
Indeed. More to the point, considerable amount of time to learn them. Debian is an intermediate distro, it is not recommended for people who want an OS that 'just works'. But once you put the effort in to understand it, you're less likely to want to go back.
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

rickNS
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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by rickNS » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:44 pm

Lysander666 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:43 am
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
.
Indeed. More to the point, considerable amount of time to learn them. Debian is an intermediate distro, it is not recommended for people who want an OS that 'just works'. But once you put the effort in to understand it, you're less likely to want to go back.
Well you are right on a few points....
This is the video I was referring re debian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4Q4i2KREQ&t=238s
And I think that I installed a different (smaller) version, than shown, hence my observation.
Also even in the version (1.2 GB) i got there is in fact a software center, only it is only called "software"
FWIW I did not delete that VM, and in fact did download the more "full" DVD .ISO, (just now) yet to be installed, so no opinion yet.
Mint 18 mate on 2 identical Thinkpad T420's

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Arch_Enemy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 pm

rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
Did a little distro hopping, not because I dislike mint at all. I like mint very much. I tried out of boredom I guess, and the very nice looking Youtube videos I watched.

Both were NOT the experience I was expecting based on those videos.
The Debian installed without anything on the panel, not too big a deal, but the control center leaves much to be desired compared to mint, there is no software center, nor update manager. I can't believe it is rated as #3 on distrowatch.
Solus 3 looks real nice, and polished on the videos. It installed easily, and looked OK. Then after doing recommended (250+GB) updates the software center / updater crashed. So I "sudo eopkg up" for another 400+MB of updates, which TOTALLY wrecked the system, fuzzy screen, no panel, no mouse. I do not see the point in re-installing.

From this I learned;
1) you can't believe everything you see on youtube. Some of those people took considerable time to get those systems to look as they do.
2) the software center in Solus might be faster than the one in Mint, but the one in Mint WORKS.
PCLinuxOS has an even cooler Control Panel, but Texstar has been tossing out the 32-bit libraries completely, so some old, familiar packages no longer run at all. :(
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Penn » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm

Watched the video, sort of. This guy at best needs to work on terminology (so do I but not to that extent) and worst case is he just isn't very knowledgeable. I had no issues installing Debian 8 when I first started with Linux (as well as several different distros) and have trouble understanding why someone would have had issues. Maybe if he said what those issues were?

Reading the comments of the video (the reason I only said sort of watched is I got bored with his lack of knowledge and started reading those) would have addressed some of your concerns. He said straight Debian which would indicate the Debian desktop environment (that seems a lot like gnome to me but I never really used it enough to know) but he also said in comments it is Mate with a dock program installed and I know some of those other apps don't come standard with Debian but also don't come with a fresh Mint install. He recommends Docky or Plank but Cairo-Dock should do the same. He also installed a different theme.
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
The Debian installed without anything on the panel, not too big a deal, but the control center leaves much to be desired compared to mint, there is no software center, nor update manager. I can't believe it is rated as #3 on distrowatch.
Panel and Control Center are a function of the desktop environment. If you didn't make sure to get the same DE on both distros they will of course be different. As I just said, his was Mate with a dock. You can find out what your's is with inxi -Sz

Software center (I assume you mean Mint's software manager) and update manager are a matter of Mint as opposed to Debian. Debian does have these available but as you somewhat know now, different names. Install pk-update-icon with all the dependencies and reccomends (dependencies will be automatic and in synaptic check your preferences to make sure recommends are treated as dependencies). This will give you a software manager if your install didn't include it (mine didn't but I did very minimal Cinnamon from network install) and you would get equivalents to both Mint's software sources and update manager. My personal opinion is mintupdate is better and at least you don't have to take the extra installation step but oh well.
From this I learned;
1) you can't believe everything you see on youtube. Some of those people took considerable time to get those systems to look as they do.
This may be a matter of what I said about the video maker. I don't think he lied or anything but not a very well put together video.

I agree, #3 on distrowatch isn't what I would expect for Debian. It is much better than Manjaro overall and for experienced users it is either as good as or better than mint. #1 or 2 is what I would expect.

Keep in mind, Debian tends to be more open software and minimalist attitudes about what they include. To some of us that is ideal.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by rickNS » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 pm

A few replies quick. As you can see I have added a bit.
The "small" Debian I installed did not look like the video, because I didn't get the same iso.
It is a fully functioning system with no problems for me, AND ! there is a software center, a very good one!
Mint 18 mate on 2 identical Thinkpad T420's

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lysander666 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:26 am

rickNS wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:44 pm
Also even in the version (1.2 GB) i got there is in fact a software center, only it is only called "software"
FWIW I did not delete that VM, and in fact did download the more "full" DVD .ISO, (just now) yet to be installed, so no opinion yet.
You could be using either GNOME or Cinnamon. GNOME has a software centre called Software. I think Cinnamon can use it too.

If you are using Cinnamon that would account for your confusion, since it is MATE (I think) in the video (though it looks like GNOME).

Could you link to your download?
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
Watched the video, sort of. This guy at best needs to work on terminology (so do I but not to that extent) and worst case is he just isn't very knowledgeable.
I've watched that video a few times. In what way is he not knowledgeable?
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
He said straight Debian which would indicate the Debian desktop environment (that seems a lot like gnome to me but I never really used it enough to know)
No, he means 'pure' Debian, i.e. not a fork, not a respin, not a derivative. It's not related to DE.
rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
Software center (I assume you mean Mint's software manager) and update manager are a matter of Mint as opposed to Debian.
GNOME has a software centre. It also has a utility called Updates for updating software. I can't speak for other DEs though.
rickNS wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:44 pm
1) you can't believe everything you see on youtube. Some of those people took considerable time to get those systems to look as they do.
By the looks of the video, it wouldn't take ten minutes to get MATE or GNOME looking like that.
Debian 9.3 Stretch / Slackware 14.2

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Hoser Rob » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:01 am

rickNS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 am
... The Debian installed without anything on the panel, not too big a deal, but the control center leaves much to be desired compared to mint, there is no software center, nor update manager. I can't believe it is rated as #3 on distrowatch.....
Not all distros are meant for rank noobs.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Portreve » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:57 pm

I used Solus 3 for about a month and change not that long ago. I don't know what happened for it to bork like that, but it seems odd.

Debian is great for a number of things, but there's things it does not automatically do that drive me nuts. Also, I couldn't get sufficiently recent versions of ADB and fastboot for it to support my phone, so I had no choice but to abandon it.
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lysander666 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 am

Portreve wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:57 pm
I used Solus 3 for about a month and change not that long ago. I don't know what happened for it to bork like that, but it seems odd.
Solus is literally a one-man band that has already been abandoned once. When there are so many better OSs to choose from, it's beyond me why people are running it.
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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Portreve » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:29 pm

Lysander666 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 am
Portreve wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:57 pm
I used Solus 3 for about a month and change not that long ago. I don't know what happened for it to bork like that, but it seems odd.
Solus is literally a one-man band that has already been abandoned once. When there are so many better OSs to choose from, it's beyond me why people are running it.
While I can't speak to it having been abandoned, I can say I asked Ikey about his Budgie Desktop Qt migration efforts (because he's made this huge announcement) and basically he said he'd started and done a few initial things but hadn't touched it in months.

This, of course, is another discouraging factor with respect to Solus. I found it to be extremely stable (though LinuxMint is stable-er) and at least as created using GTK3 the Budgie Desktop is less resource-demanding than Cinnamon (in particular, Cinnamon running on LM) but it was missing software, it doesn't do some things the way other distros do them (Scribus in AppImage form is borked on Solus, for example) and I really don't like how it manages mounted volumes.
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Penn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:41 pm

Lysander666 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:26 am
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
Watched the video, sort of. This guy at best needs to work on terminology (so do I but not to that extent) and worst case is he just isn't very knowledgeable.
I've watched that video a few times. In what way is he not knowledgeable?
In what way did I definitively state he is not knowledgeable?

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lucap » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:52 am

Lysander666 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 am
Solus is literally a one-man band that has already been abandoned once. When there are so many better OSs to choose from, it's beyond me why people are running it.
This -----------------^

It's just a highly polished web browser and media player that has no practical use as a work station considering you can't install what you want when you want.

As a browser it's awesome anything else forget it.

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lysander666 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:59 am

Penn wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:41 pm
In what way did I definitively state he is not knowledgeable?
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
This guy at best needs to work on terminology (so do I but not to that extent) and worst case is he just isn't very knowledgeable.
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
I got bored with his lack of knowledge
I don't really want to debate this minor point, but to say something twice and then imply that you didn't say it is as least forgetful and possibly duplicitous. At least you could back up the point with regard to why you think he's not knowledgeable [or if you have revised your earlier point in the light of new information, to elaborate on that].
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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Penn » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am

Lysander666 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:59 am
Penn wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:41 pm
In what way did I definitively state he is not knowledgeable?
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
This guy at best needs to work on terminology (so do I but not to that extent) and worst case is he just isn't very knowledgeable.
Penn wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 pm
I got bored with his lack of knowledge
I don't really want to debate this minor point,


Then why are you doing debating it?

but to say something twice and then imply that you didn't say it is as least forgetful and possibly duplicitous. At least you could back up the point with regard to why you think he's not knowledgeable [or if you have revised your earlier point in the light of new information, to elaborate on that].
Granted, that last quote I should have said "what I perceive as".

Why are you so defensive about this? For someone that doesn't want to debate a minor point you sure are getting close to aggression. Did you make the video?

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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Lysander666 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Penn wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am
Then why are you doing debating it?
I don't want to, but it's pertinent to the thread. The OP's impression of Debian rested on a video which you said was made by an unknowledgeable user. You now cannot quality that statement.

Penn wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am
Why are you so defensive about this? For someone that doesn't want to debate a minor point you sure are getting close to aggression.
Already explained above. If you wish to debate debating rather than attempting to explain your earlier comments, it's a waste of everyone's time. I'm out.

Penn wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am
Did you make the video?
No.
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Re: Debian 9, Solus 3, tested over weekend

Post by Penn » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:33 pm

Lysander666 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm
The OP's impression of Debian rested on a video
This statement is something we agree on and something you may want to keep in mind if you decide to read this.
Lysander666 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm
Penn wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am
Then why are you doing debating it?
I don't want to, but it's pertinent to the thread. The OP's impression of Debian rested on a video which you said was made by an unknowledgeable user. You now cannot quality that statement.
I asked you a simple question because I wanted to understand you a bit better before answering. Ironically, my reason for the approach I took is I don't see how your question (some might view it more as an attack than question) was pertinent to the thread but I assumed you felt it was. If you disagree, which clearly you do, isn't it enough to leave it there? (yes, that is more of a question intended to understand you since I doubt you will get an answer you find acceptable, but at least I am trying communication)
Lysander666 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm
Penn wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 am
Why are you so defensive about this? For someone that doesn't want to debate a minor point you sure are getting close to aggression.
Already explained above. If you wish to debate debating rather than attempting to explain your earlier comments, it's a waste of everyone's time. I'm out.
Not debating debate here. In fact, that may be our disconnect here. I'm not even trying to debate at all. I'm trying to understand.

I did acknowledge my error but that still seems to be something that you are hung up on. In no way did I intend to conclusively state the video maker was not knowledgeable. Instead acknowledged to the OP the video itself may not have been the best thing for a person viewing for the reasons he watched it and that is one POSSIBLE reason. I have no intention of debating that as a possibility to you since that would require watching more from him but if it helps you better understand -

Possibly the only direct answer I can give to your original question would be - Look at the results. The OP went into Debian with expectations that were unmet. Some of the questions asked in the comments section indicate he isn't knowledgeable about making a good video for what I believe he intended.

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