Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

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_Josue_
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Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by _Josue_ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:39 pm

Hello.

I have seen this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=268140&hilit=ubuntu

And I have tested Ubuntu 18.04 and I have found things that worry me a lot. Since Linux Mint 19.1 will be based on Ubuntu 18.04 (and KDE is already dropped, as a KDE user I'm already worried mind you)

I have noticed many many apps that work perfectly in my Linux Mint computers are just not there in Ubuntu 18.04 !
Let's begin with Synaptic package manager. I know some people is going to say "oh but it was outdated and lacked maintainance" but I say if it's not broken don't touch it!
The current mint app store is quite nice and convenient to use but whenever I need to look for more details about packages I prefer to use Synaptic because it is a good alternative and allows to simply search for packages and dependencies. Now we are thrown back to terminal commands! (KDE coders already doing this since they don't want to allow Dolphin to run in super user mode, but oh I have already tested installing KDE alongside Cinnamon to have my way out and enjoy both desktops but that's another story)
Will that carry over to Linux MInt? I hope that won't happen and I will still have Synaptic around alongside mintinstall to help myself sometimes whenever I need it.
But that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I have searched for many many other apps and I couldn't find them in the so called "Ubuntu software"! and I really hope that is a bug or a glitch of some sort because those apps are really really important for many many Linux users!
For example openshot! Or how about cairo-dock or steam? How about system tools such as hdapsd or pulseeffects? couldn't find any of those in Ubuntu software! And we are a few days before Ubuntu's release date!
I really hope Linux Mint 19 will be able to provide those packages because Ubuntu seems to no longer provide them.
Last edited by _Josue_ on Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by greerd » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:53 pm

Synaptic already runs with pkexec, the menu command is synaptic-pkexec so it shouldn't be any different that it is now on 18.3.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by _Josue_ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:00 pm

Well first of all thanks for your interest.
All I get on Ubuntu 18.04 right now is
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ synaptic-pkexec

Command 'synaptic-pkexec' not found, but can be installed with:

sudo apt install synaptic

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ ^C
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo apt install synaptic
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package synaptic is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'synaptic' has no installation candidate
And it's not just synaptic! I have mentioned many other packages that I use right now on Mint that are missing!
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by greerd » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:05 pm

Well, that sucks! Hopefully Mint will include it as a default, I agree that it's a very useful package. I particularly like the history and history search function.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by _Josue_ » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:51 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YdL7Hch78s

I'm most concerned about the future of Mint and and the OpenSource World. All that Micro$oft love for Linux gives me the shivers! Did Canonilcal already sold their souls to them? I hope not but seeing all the missing packages and apps in Ubuntu 18.04 makes me feel suspicious (specially knowing that Ubuntu is at Windows 10 store!)
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by smurphos » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:03 am

_Josue_ wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:00 pm
And it's not just synaptic! I have mentioned many other packages that I use right now on Mint that are missing!
That's a bit odd - there is a bionic version listed (and downloadable as a deb package) here - https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/synaptic

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by michael louwe » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:09 am

M$ has been integrating or preinstalling profitable apps and features into non-free Win 10 and removing seldom-used features and apps used by power-users = more profit$ for M$ ahead of benefits for users. This is an unfair trade, ie M$ is double dipping.
....... Similarly for Mozilla's free Firefox. Looks like Canonical is doing the same for free Ubuntu. For free OS/software, this may be a justified trend and a fair trade-off for users, eg display of targeted ads to users and selling of user-data by Google's Android, ChromeOS, Chrome browser, Search, Maps, etc.
Last edited by michael louwe on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by Pjotr » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:57 am

@ _Josue_ :

Your statement is untrue and you're overreacting. I can install Synaptic just fine, in my VM with Xubuntu 18.04 Bionic (sudo apt-get install synaptic). So Synaptic definitely hasn't disappeared from the Bionic repo's.

I can also launch Synaptic in Bionic, after installing it: both from the entry in the applications menu and by executing synaptic-pkexec in the terminal.

Note also that the disappearance of gksu, which has indeed been removed, doesn't make editing system config files harder. In Mint 19 it will be doable (among other ways) by means of admin://.
For example, for editing /etc/default/grub:
xed admin:///etc/default/grub
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by altair4 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:12 am

Um ... going to have to agree with Pjotr again. Synaptic installs just fine on Ubuntu 18.04 - I just did it.

It's a good thing it does install since the "Ubuntu Software" application seems to be inebriated. If I search for samba the only entry is:
UbuntuSoftware.png
UbuntuSoftware.png (9.58 KiB) Viewed 2350 times
I have no intention of installing a KDE samba client application on Ubuntu.

Anyhoo. Maybe you installed a buggy daily build of Ubuntu 18.04.
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by kc1di » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:39 am

synaptic does indeed install and run on ubuntu 18.04 just did that yesterday, the problem with synaptic comes in if you choose to run the wayland server instead of x.org. Synaptic nor gdebi will not run under wayland last time I tried it. Don't believe that's been fixed yet. That may be one reason that Ubuntu chose to go with xorg instead of wayland for it's LTS release.

In any event I'm sure Mint 19 will come with synaptic and gdebi. Plus you must remember that some apps most likely have not been packaged for 18.04 because it's still in beta, Release in in 3 days. and some apps are not packaged/tested and added to the repository until after the final is released.
Don't worry too much The changes in 18.04 are not that much of a change.
P.S. come to think of it believe I had to add synaptic in 16.04 as well , don't think it is installed by default.
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by Hoser Rob » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:48 am

_Josue_ wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:51 pm
... All that Micro$oft love for Linux gives me the shivers! Did Canonilcal already sold their souls to them? I hope not but seeing all the missing packages and apps in Ubuntu 18.04 makes me feel suspicious (specially knowing that Ubuntu is at Windows 10 store!)
Do you really think that the problems with Linux are MS's fault? You need some less deluded info, read this for a start:

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.lin ... rrent.html

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by Pjotr » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:55 am

kc1di wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:39 am
come to think of it believe I had to add synaptic in 16.04 as well , don't think it is installed by default.
Correct. :)
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by Pjotr » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:03 am

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:48 am
Do you really think that the problems with Linux are MS's fault? You need some less deluded info, read this for a start:

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.lin ... rrent.html
That link contains some grossly exaggerated information.
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19 Tara
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by _Josue_ » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:06 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:48 am
_Josue_ wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:51 pm
... All that Micro$oft love for Linux gives me the shivers! Did Canonilcal already sold their souls to them? I hope not but seeing all the missing packages and apps in Ubuntu 18.04 makes me feel suspicious (specially knowing that Ubuntu is at Windows 10 store!)
Do you really think that the problems with Linux are MS's fault? You need some less deluded info, read this for a start:

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.lin ... rrent.html
Not precisely their fault but wait... did you guys watch the video I had put in my previous post? Maybe I'm becoming a little paranoid but after years of calling Linux a Cancer now all of a sudden Micro$oft loves it and loves Open Source!
What do they get from this? There has to be something for them to gain! And now they are using Linux, making their own distro for "Internet of Things"! Is that enough? I''m not sure. EEE perhaps?
Pjotr wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:57 am
@ _Josue_ :

Your statement is untrue and you're overreacting. I can install Synaptic just fine, in my VM with Xubuntu 18.04 Bionic (sudo apt-get install synaptic). So Synaptic definitely hasn't disappeared from the Bionic repo's.

I can also launch Synaptic in Bionic, after installing it: both from the entry in the applications menu and by executing synaptic-pkexec in the terminal.

Note also that the disappearance of gksu, which has indeed been removed, doesn't make editing system config files harder. In Mint 19 it will be doable (among other ways) by means of admin://.
For example, for editing /etc/default/grub:
xed admin:///etc/default/grub
Untrue for you sir, but I do have the problem. It's possible that I'm overreacting. Mayhap it's wayland's culprit (as someone else stated , but I have not seen any way to switch it to x then it went unnoticed.), or perhaps they disallowed applications from being installed on a live session (which by the way I must mention I was able to do with older versions of Ubuntu and current versions of Linux Mint). Whatever the cause is, it gave me a bad feeling to be unable to find a lot of programs when I searched them at the "Ubuntu software"
altair4 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:12 am
Um ... going to have to agree with Pjotr again. Synaptic installs just fine on Ubuntu 18.04 - I just did it.

It's a good thing it does install since the "Ubuntu Software" application seems to be inebriated. If I search for samba the only entry is: UbuntuSoftware.png
I have no intention of installing a KDE samba client application on Ubuntu.

Anyhoo. Maybe you installed a buggy daily build of Ubuntu 18.04.
In that case then Ubuntu software is indeed inebriated or I would say as just as good as a drunken man so drunk that is seeing pink elephants.

Well, perhaps it's as you say, this is just a beta and all this is just the bugs that will be fixed at release time.
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by michael louwe » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:09 am

@ Josue, .......
_Josue_ wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:51 pm
I'm most concerned about the future of Mint and and the OpenSource World. All that Micro$oft love for Linux gives me the shivers! Did Canonilcal already sold their souls to them? I hope not but seeing all the missing packages and apps in Ubuntu 18.04 makes me feel suspicious (specially knowing that Ubuntu is at Windows 10 store!)
.
M$ is enabling Win 10 users to run Ubuntu natively, in order to minimize the number of Win 7/8.x/10 users migrating to Linux.

M$ is using free open-source Linux software for some of her own operations, in order to save costs and still make profit$ = no need to spend money to create her own similar proprietary closed-source software, eg Azure Cloud servers.
....... Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, etc, are also doing the same thing, eg Google's proprietary or trade-marked Android and ChromeOS are based on Linux.

So, no need to shiver since free open-source Linux can be used by everyone.

.
P S - Like the proprietary or trade-marked Codeweaver's Crossover (subscription-based) program for Linux, Red Hat Linux Enterprise OS and Suse Linux Ent OS, Ubuntu and Linux Mint can also be made proprietary or trade-marked to become non-free open-source software, similar to M$'s proprietary closed-source Windows, eg if and when Ubuntu or LM achieves a world market share of more than 50%.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by catweazel » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:54 am

michael louwe wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:09 am
M$ is using free open-source Linux software for some of her own operations, in order to save costs and still make profit$ = no need to spend money to create her own similar proprietary closed-source software, eg Azure Cloud servers.
Open source licences allow that, and Microsoft is the largest contributor by far to open source projects. So what's the big deal when the truth of the matter is that you directly obtain major benefit from what you are railing against?

Microsoft, the top open-source contributor on GitHub.
Fully 16,419 contributors affiliated with Microsoft worked on open-source GitHub projects during the past 12 months, GitHub said, ahead of 15,682 from Facebook, 14,059 from Docker and 12,841 from Angular.
Oopsies!
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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by smurphos » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:32 am

_Josue_ wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:06 pm
altair4 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:12 am
Um ... going to have to agree with Pjotr again. Synaptic installs just fine on Ubuntu 18.04 - I just did it.

It's a good thing it does install since the "Ubuntu Software" application seems to be inebriated. If I search for samba the only entry is: UbuntuSoftware.png
I have no intention of installing a KDE samba client application on Ubuntu.

Anyhoo. Maybe you installed a buggy daily build of Ubuntu 18.04.
In that case then Ubuntu software is indeed inebriated or I would say as just as good as a drunken man so drunk that is seeing pink elephants.

Well, perhaps it's as you say, this is just a beta and all this is just the bugs that will be fixed at release time.
The search function in 18.04 Ubuntu Software is just a bit clunky and slow.

E.g. if I search for Openshot I get a 'No application found' for about 5 seconds and then Openshot appears as an option. Similarly for Synaptic, Samba, Cairo-Dock, Steam, hdaspd - it just takes several seconds to populate the results fully. There is no 'pulseeffects' - but then again there is no 'pulseeffects' in the 16.04 repo either. Plenty of results for a search for 'pulse'

The overview search in gnome-shell which suggests non-installed apps against the search term doesn't reliably return the same results as you eventually get in Ubuntu Software itself.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by chrisuk » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:49 am

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:48 am
_Josue_ wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:51 pm
... All that Micro$oft love for Linux gives me the shivers! Did Canonilcal already sold their souls to them? I hope not but seeing all the missing packages and apps in Ubuntu 18.04 makes me feel suspicious (specially knowing that Ubuntu is at Windows 10 store!)
Do you really think that the problems with Linux are MS's fault? You need some less deluded info, read this for a start:

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.lin ... rrent.html
Some interesting info there... most of it will upset the fanboys though ;)
Chris

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by michael louwe » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 am

@ catweazel, .......
catweazel wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:54 am
michael louwe wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:09 am
M$ is using free open-source Linux software for some of her own operations, in order to save costs and still make profit$ = no need to spend money to create her own similar proprietary closed-source software, eg Azure Cloud servers.
....... Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, etc, are also doing the same thing, eg Google's proprietary or trade-marked Android and ChromeOS are based on Linux. ...

.... So, no need to shiver since free open-source Linux can be used by everyone.
Open source licences allow that, and Microsoft is the largest contributor by far to open source projects. So what's the big deal when the truth of the matter is that you directly obtain major benefit from what you are railing against?
.
Was I railing against M$ with my statement above.? Please do not jump to conclusions.

Nevertheless, in other posts, I have railed against M$ for imposing forced auto-updates, upgrades and Telemetry in Win 10, and degrading Win 7, ... but not for using Linux codes.
....... I have also railed against Linux but to a lesser extent, eg against Canonical's Ubuntu hybrid Unity DE.

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Re: Worried about the future: Linux Mint 19

Post by catweazel » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:13 am

michael louwe wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 am
Was I railing against M$ with my statement above.? Please do not jump to conclusions.
There is no need to jump to conclusions. Start reading from "M$ is ...".
I have also railed against...
...light emitting diodes, artificial limbs, heart transplant ventricular assist, dust busters, land mine removal, Nike, Adidas et al running shoes, aircraft anti-icing, powdered lubricants, HACCP food safety, chemical and molecular explosives detection, ear thermometers, jaws of life, foil blankets for shock and accident victims, fire-fighting protection suits, air-crash temper foam, baby food and baby formula, freeze drying, solar energy, water purification, the laptop and the PC mouse.
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